FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Mozart - De Villiers has spoken out about two issues

Mozart - De Villiers has spoken out about two issues

Started by clevermike10 REPLIES268 VIEWS· 16 Aug 2013, 18:28
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Aug 2013, 18:28
#1
16 Aug 2013, 18:28#1
He is diametrically opposed to two of Meyer's per ideas, namely - * Meyer's persistence in selecting players that has shown little or no fo0rm in the recent past - or where there is no reliable indication of recent form; and * Meyer's continued selection of foreign-based players. Taking into account his first statement one must assume that he has problems with foreign-based players who have shown no recent proven form - which would account for players like Pienaar, Steenkamp, Du Preez, Kruger, and even Morne Steyn - whose most recent form in Super 15 was questionable. The problem is the above are not the only questionable selections - you also have the non-performers like Alberts, Jannie du plessis and Van der Merwe to contend with and that is where I think De Villiers blood is boiling. If the team loses - he will get the blame - not Meyer's rubbish selections. His latest comments indicate there Is unhappiness in the camp - especially insofar as team selection is concerned. Now the question is - how long will De Villiers last as captain? I think Meyer is probably as dictatorial as Straueli - so the outcome may be predictable - a change of captaincy is around the corner. Now since you are such a strong supporter of Meyer and his crazy selections - I would like to hear what you think about this issues raised by De Villiers.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
16 Aug 2013, 19:56
#2
16 Aug 2013, 19:56#2

CM - I know this is directed at Moz but if I may respond?

 

I think you have misunderstood JDV's comments - he is a company man and would not come out and say something that wasn't being discussed already by SARU or in the Bok camp. Regarding the non-performing players - I believe that was from his comment about "second stringers" which if you read in context is his explanation that because so many made late announcements the foreign based players had to be picked this year or there would have been second-stringers in the Bok team if they had only picked domestic players.

 

DeVilliers full quote (he does seem to go further and imply a total ban):

 

Both the All Blacks and the Wallabies refuse to select overseas-based players in a bid to maintain a depth of local talent, a policy de Villiers said the Springboks may be forced to adopt.

"It's something that South African rugby is looking into," he said. "We can't go on like this. We have to keep South African rugby strong.

"For now, they're selected from abroad but going into the future I can't see that happening."

He said the policy could not be implemented immediately because so many Springbok players had left Super Rugby clubs in recent weeks that it would drastically weaken the team.

"You don't want to change the team going into the Rugby Championship and play essentially second stringers, to put it quite harshly," he said.

"It's something they need to look at. You want to be able to pay your players good money, you want to be able to keep them in South Africa and I suppose getting the payments right is the key."

 

 

That is not much different than what SARU CEO Roux said a week earlier:

 

 

A limit would be the logical step forward said Roux.

“Yes, it's (a quota on foreign players) something we are considering,” he said

“But (it is) within the context of a constantly changing industry that is fast developing into a global sport...rather than just being a national sport in terms of opportunities offered.  Players playing locally will always get first consideration, provided that the selectors have faith in their abilities.

“However, we are in a unique current situation with six players, who were part of the Bok squad this past year now deciding to go overseas. You can't just replace so many players in the middle of the season.  But these players know their chances of playing for South Africa in future cannot be guaranteed.”

 

 

 

 

Or what Meyer said in June was his preference:

 

 

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has made it clear that any player going overseas might as well kiss their Springbok career goodbye.

Known for being empathetic towards the plight of many players’ desire to earn big money in France, England and Japan, Meyer has for the first time spoken out at the concern he has about top Springboks leaving South Africa but has warned them that playing abroad could spell the end of their international careers.

While many of them will still be available for the Springboks in the future, Meyer has made it no secret that he will first consider players playing in South Africa over those playing abroad and that it will only be under exception circumstances that he will select a player based overseas.

In the past Meyer has shown some leniency towards players abroad as was evident with the call-up of England-based Francois Louw at flank this year and those of Gurthrö Steenkamp (France), Heinke van der Merwe (Ireland) and Schalk Brits (England) during last year’s end of year tour.

However, he has put his foot down and in the interests of South African rugby and that of the Boks, he wants all of his players readily available for training camps and monitoring.

“Definitely (it is concerning) but unfortunately it is not in my hands. Players are contracted to unions and one can understand that most unions are under financial pressure.

“There are lucrative offers from overseas and every guy needs to do what is best for himself. But it is a concern if you take into consideration after the World Cup we have lost a lot of great players and we want to start and build a new team. But you can’t build every single year. If you look at the guys we have now for the next four years, I really believe this could be an awesome team. But now we have five or six guys in the starting line-up who will be with us for the rest of the year and then suddenly next year they are not here. Although there is a perception that they gain experience, you definitely want to have more training camps and you don’t have them there. So it is a huge concern for me.

“Going forward I will have to rethink, I will still pick guys from overseas but I will definitely play guys playing in the country because it makes sense to do so. This is especially when you have training camps, you want to have them here,” Meyer said this week.

With the Rugby World Cup to be held in England in 2015 it might work in Meyer’s favour to have some of his top Springboks already acclimatised to European conditions but Meyer is not entirely sold on the idea of not being able to constantly monitor and communicate with his players.

But in the same breath Meyer said he would still keep an eye on more established Springboks like Steyn and Habana who stand out in their positions and he feels have amassed invaluable experience that cannot be overlooked.

“I always look at the positives in life and in this negative that positive is the case. But you want to have 90per cent of your squad playing in South Africa because you want to coach them and give them experience.

“The difficult thing is that I don’t get time with them anyway, so I would definitely like to have more time with them in the future. Going forward I will pick guys who are in South Africa. It is only with guys like Bryan and Morné who have 50 or 60 Test matches and is playing superb rugby that you will pick them. But if it gets to a 60-40 or a 70-30 then you have to go with the guys in South Africa because you see them every day and they play a different kind of rugby here especially at this time of the year.

“At the end of the year when the guys here are tired, and the players there are in the middle of their seasons then obviously you can include them.

“In a sense you can use those players but I always prefer to have the guys in South Africa because you can monitor and communicate with them better. Our coaching staff went around this year and spent time with the players which was a huge improvement for us,” said Meyer.

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Aug 2013, 20:57
#3
16 Aug 2013, 20:57#3
Soooo I'm guessing Jean thinks Habana , Steyn, Pienaar, Gurthro, Louw and F du Preez are crucial to the team. Thanks for pointing this out OOm.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
16 Aug 2013, 21:26
#4
16 Aug 2013, 21:26#4

 Moz, I know you're having a dig :) but I think in context of his comments regarding changing the team before the RC Jean's endorsement is really only extended to those that played Super Rugby or in the June Tests - Habana, Morne, Louw, Kruger, Pienaar.

 

The FDP move - to see what he can offer - is a good one I think if it fits into the direction they seem headed in either banning or setting a selection quota. Either way he should be strongly encouraged to come back to SA rugby next year if he wants to be part of the WC plans and that is clearly 

 

Gurthro selection still puzzles, especially since he's a reserve, there is no injury crisis and while he was good enough on the EOYT it wasn't at a level to snub a SA prop. I have wondered if Meyer thinks these new scrum laws will benefit him and maybe thats the reason? Former SA Rugby player of the year (2010?) and also holds the record for most tries scored by a Bok prop.

 

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Aug 2013, 22:09
#5
16 Aug 2013, 22:09#5

The Steenkamp selection is a bit puzzling. He is probably too old to ascribe this to RWC building. So my guess is Meyer is uncertain about the Beasts durability. No need for Steenkamp just as a sub. But if we need another starting loosehead in the RC....Steenkamp has the experience. Meyer is correctly very focused on the results this year and it seems he needs a Steenkamp insurance policy.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Aug 2013, 22:59
#6
16 Aug 2013, 22:59#6
Mozart What a load of crap - an overweight second string prop from Toulouse that fails to make their starting line up as an insurance policy. That makes no sense at all. Despite what oi-matey says - there is more to the two statements that meets the eye. De Villiers said intitially selection must be made in accordance with performance and followed that up with a statement on foreign-based players. I do not think his talk was scripted by SARU or past by Meyer. Meyer after De Villiers went straight ahead and selected a squad with nearly half of the players showing poor or just about average form in Super 15 including players that showed nothing in the tests last year. I think De Villiers was not too happy with that lot. The second statement also contradicted Meyer's actions as to the selection of foreign-based players totally. Meyer went further than only Steenkamp who had no game time for nearly three months - he also selected Du Preez that did not have any game time for nearly four months. How could those be justified in practice? Aside from that the squad selected by Meyer was riddled by under-performing players such as - * Kirchner - who had virtually no game time since April and was under-performing before then, * the great defence liability De Jong, who is useless in attack, * Morne Steyn - whose last three games in Super 15 was poor, * Pienaar who had a very poor season for Ulster and sowed very little in the Junbe tests against weak opposition, * Alberts - who has been ultra-consistent in one aspect - he has produced nothing in the tests last year - missed most of Super 15 - came back and did nothing in the remainder of Super 15 - did nothing in the June tests other than missing two tackles that both let to Samoan tries, * Kruger - whose only claim to fame is that he can call line-outs - but makes virtually no other contribution to the game in line-outs or any other aspect of the game - he has no grunt. Coup[led to the two foreigners who have not played any rugby for months - the other useless players mentioned - one goes into the serious with a seriously flawed team. If I was captain of the team - I would also be unhappy with that motley crew handed to me. Hell - I am sorry that Jean has to put up with rubbish selections by Meyer - he has my real sympathy.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Aug 2013, 23:15
#7
16 Aug 2013, 23:15#7

 No need to be concerned OOm the risk of Alberts , Steenkamp, Kruger , Steyn and Pienaar playing under your leadership, is about the same as the risk of being hit by lightning 10 times. Relax  and eat  your biscuit.

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
16 Aug 2013, 23:56
#8
16 Aug 2013, 23:56#8

Jean isn't unhappy with the current overseas selections - he endorsed them due to current circumstances and in fact prefers them as opposed to the "second string" (his words) domestics. He is unhappy with the overseas trend and is of the opinion that going forward it should no longer continue but that is no different than SARU or Meyer have already stated. There is no controversy here.

 

 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Aug 2013, 00:00
#9
17 Aug 2013, 00:00#9

Wrong thread.

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
17 Aug 2013, 00:19
#10
17 Aug 2013, 00:19#10

They'll probably end up with some kind of quota for overseas players, like everything else right? Dodge the real issues.

I think the Springbok Factory approach (Beeno's article) is the way to go in order to free up money for Bok salaries and have the organization restructured and not led by the same old guys. That and an amateur draft process with initial contracts no less than 5 years.

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2013, 00:57
#11
17 Aug 2013, 00:57#11

The draft works spectacularly for the NFL. Start a draft, cut the number of hangers on dramatically to fund  better compensation, and pay the players to stay. Economics 101.

— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news