Mozart - elsewhere White said that

reputation means nothing and players are to be selected only on performance.

You are the great supporter of the reputation selection criterium on this site and whole-heartedly supported certain selections of Meyer - where performances counted for zero - so what do you say about White's latest comment on the issue.

There are already signs that Alberts is on thin ice and his reputation will not off-set his low work rate and skills level.   Steyn will have to improve massively from what he did last year - or he might also be on the chopping block.

Then there was another item where you posted a song and dance about "process"  players - but when asked about Morne Steyn, Francois Steyn and Alberts being "process" players - you went quiet on the issue.  Are you convinced that they are not "process" players as against thinking players who has the instinctive ability to read  game  and adjust their game accordingly?

Your comments on the above will really be interesting.

Nope....I think rugby is played by a team, not 15 individuals. The team stays intact until a player proves he is a better contributor to the team than the incumbent. Note the phrase, contributor to the team......the best running hooker, like Britz, isn't the best contributor to the team if the object is to dominate up front.

Proof is a difficult thing, because the S15 is so much less physical and high paced than test rugby....as a general observation. And while there are key games that approach test standard and those games can be instructive......by and large you have to see a player at test level to be sure he will fit. So performance off the bench is crucial.

Guys like Schalk, given the chance to replace Krige off the bench made a clear statement. Far too many youngsters don't and in that case it's an easy answer....stick with the team. I am a great admirer of Jake White and I think you will find that he clarified that line of thinking a long time ago.

Mozart

With respect - you have not answered the question of whether the term "process players" is applicable to Morne Steyn, Francois Steyn and Willem Alberts.   That term applies on all levels so lets hear your response.

I agree with you about the issue of indviduals in a team environment.   However, individuals must perform their part in the broader team environment and if they under-perform or play at a low work rate - that is detrimental to the team.

There are some question marks about the idea of physicality and lesser paced rugby at test level than on Super 15 level.   Looking at two tests (France and Ireland)  last weekend the speed level of those were high as well.   Is it a myth that test level rugby has a higher degree physicality impact or not?   I am not sure about it - taking into account that the same players are involved both in Super 15 and in tests - but the difference maybe is that the test players - being a selective few - have a higher skill set than  those on lower levels.  

One thing is to my mind clear - players who constantly under--perform on Super 15 level - has no or even a minimal chance of performing better on test level.    There are some exceptions - but those are extremely rare.     

 Sun Tzu

I am quoting the following and my response will be blunt:=

"All three are thinking players, though I believe what you are vaguely alluding to is a puzzle solving ability, in reading a situation and summing up the best course of action."

The answer is short and sweet - BALLS - neither of the robotic Morne Steyn, nor the  frequently crashballing Francois Steyn,  nor the mindless ball carrying Alberts  can be regarded as players that reads games and take decisions the right decisions.  The "results: of their so-called decisions are detrimental to the team or not conducive to improved team performance,

Morne plays according to a pre-determined game plan and is incapable of changing the plan in critical stages (eg in the Super 15 final last year and the Ellis Park test) - Francois has never since his return from France created anything (his runs are straight at defenders with zero chance if creating a linebreak) - and poor Willem carries the ball two meters - never ever contemplating anything about passing the ball 

The chief Robot is no doub t Morne - the others follow shortly behind him. 

 Mozart

Your answer is probably locked up in the following phrase:-

"The team stays intact until a player proves he is a better contributor to the team than the incumbent."

When is it going to show up that any player is "going to be a better contributor than the incumbent"?   That really remains a problem and the situation can be extended to a stage where nobody ever has a chance to replace an existing player - in other words stagnation sets in in the case of players.   Is it not on lower level - where all team members compete on level terms with other team members where it can become clear that there are indeed serious challengers for positions?

In essence we have seen what happened in the past in cases where there is virtually no team renewal in the time between two World Cups in the case of the cup winning team - no team has ever won the WC twice in succession because the situation is that despite decrease in player competency as a result of the advancing age factor players stay in the team.

I believe there need to be a flexible approach and nobody should believe his place in the team is secured.    Never should it be said that it is harder to get out of the Springbok team then to get into the team.

Be is as it may - I still think that your description of process players is applicable to Morne Steynm Francois Steyn and Willem Alberts and that deep imside you  agree with me about those three players.  

Sun Tzu

Do you understand what I said above?   I was writing about a broader issue applicable to all teams in world rugby - and never mentioned MEYER once.   I never mentioned any players when discussing the broader principles involved.

I only mentioned in the end  that Mozart's description of "process players"  obviously applies to Morne Steyn,  Francois Steyn and Willem Alberts - since they have never showed that they are thinking players. 

Since you mention names -

*   Morne is a definite no-no for any Springbok team - we do not need a robot at 10;

*   How Juadre Kruger was ever selected was a mystery only Meyer would know - he never had any grunt; and

*   Meyer made a huge mistake last year in reverting back to Morne at 10 - he is a  liability and not  an asset.