My Player of the YE tests so far

 Mozart
Why - because he is 35 years old?   He was at least trying to be a forward.   The player of the season for ireland was not him - but S exton.    

Se.xton?  Well maybe....pretty much a Morne clone 

 Sexton is not a Morne clone, he's similar to Goosen to how he plays. Just more refined and experienced as he's the end product. 

 My player of the EOYT for South Africa (Not doing one overall as I haven't watched any other matches bar SA) ranking from the best to 3rd best
Le RouxCoetzeeEtzebeth

Etzebeth is still getting faint praise, but I also think he has been good value....another two lineouts against the throw today.  

 Blikkies
What about Willemse?   Matfie;ld is BSing around and is not worth selection.   I would say we have five locks available in -
*   Etzebeth*   Du Toit*   Van der Merwe*   De Jager*   Willemse
We do not need the overaged backline moonlighter anymore.

I agree with mozart. Paul O Connell was the best player over the past 3 weeks.Anyone watching the Aus vs ire game would agree. Paul O Connell still defended like a man mad man in the 78th minute of the game.He is doing what a lock is suppose to do, the HARD WORK. Not the shit Matfield and Eben is producing at the moment. The best player for the boks was Coetzee. He was by far the best and most consistent of all the boks.
Shezza, you must be kidding. Le Roux and Eben in your top 3?Le Roux have been playing bad rugby for the past 4 months. He will do something brilliant and then make up for it by being useless for the next 2 games.Eben have been invisible since he came back this year. Nothing more to say. 

 Beleiver
Are you about to join the League of Morons on this site?   Ypu should know byy now Mozart is tthe biggest BSter on this site and he would pick O'Connel because of his age and not his performance.
O'Connell played only in two of the three tests the Irish played and here are his stats:-

O'Connell

0/0

0

0/1/14

7

0

1

0

0

25/2

8/0

1

0/0

His ball carrries were virtually non-existent - he beat one defender in all  his carries - his tackle stats were good - his line out takes below average,
Now if that is the best performer - my auntie would have had balls and ended up being  my uncle.  
Mozart wanted to make Matfield his Man of the Series -  but the latter was so bloody useless he could not be considered even by him.   What a fool you are supporting that old chancer in anything he wites. .    

CleverMike: just in case you missed it here is the link to the article on the IRB awards for 2014.
Link to IRB awards for 2014

 *   Etzebeth*   Du Toit*   Van der Merwe*   De Jager*   Willemse
Mike I would add Stephan Lewies to that list as well. Meyer will have to watch these guys closely in the SUper XV next year. I just hope h e selects on form and not reputation.

Mike.

Put me in whatever league you want, i couldn't care less.
I see where you and i differ.
You think that the number one priority of a lock is to carry the ball.
I say that is the last thing a lock should do.
A lock needs to do the following BEFORE they stand in the back line.
1. Take line out ball
2. Take kick off.
3. Tackle/scrum
4. Clean
Then and only then can they stand in the back line..

You look at the stats of O'Connell and see 14 carries with 7 meters gain. And then decide it was a bad game.
I look at the same stats and see 8 line out balls and 25 TACKLES!! One hell of a game.
On top of that he made 10 plus clean outs in the game.

Now lets compare that to our locks.
 L Etzebeth 0/0 0 0/1/9 50 0 0 1 3 4/0 4/2 1 0/0 L Matfield 0/0 0 0/5/6 9 0 0 1 1 10/0 4/0 1 0/0
You see Eben 9 carries, 50meter gain. And decide decent game for him.
I see 4 TACKLES!! and a MAX off 5 clean outs. USELESS.
We had Victor and Eben on the wings more that once in the game.
I will take the 7meters O'Connell made above the 50 Eben made. Why?
O'Connell did not loose the ball once. Eben lost it 3 times and victor once.
So Eben runs like a winger and makes 30m. But then gives away a penalty. They now take the ball and kick it back 40m. You see 30m gain, i see 10m lost.

Both Victor and Eben was shocking yesterday. They do not do the basics that is expected of a lock forward.
And that is why i say O'Connell was by far the best lock on the YE tour.

Meter gain is a silly statistic to attach much value to. One break where a forward is put in space can account for 30m. If he makes 9 other carries in the game at just 2m each, it's going to look like he makes an average gain of almost 5m per carry which would suggest a strong ball carrying performance, when in fact it is the one big run into space that accounts for most of the meters. Statistics can only tell you so much. Watch the game.

 Beleiver
Lets look at your statement:-
"Paul O Connell was the best player over the past 3 weeks."
Wonderful logic since he only played in two of the three games the Irish played and set out in one game.  Was he so good in the the other two games that you stretched it to 3 games he was good in.  Typical Mozart stuff here - talking crap in general statements.
A player at lock must take line out balls - as you said.  taking four line out balls per game is not good enough - matter of fact below par.
A lock must also be able to caryy balls in traffic - not anything like O'Connell or matfield is doing - so that takes out two qualities of athe scenario.
O'Connell tackled well for a lock - which is a plus.   
However, the only thin he did really well was rtackling - the rest was on par or even below par.   That does not make him the man of the series as Mozart claims him to be.  Get it?   he was average -- not top nothch.  because he was pbetter than piss-poor Matfield does not make him the man of the series.  
Insofar as our locks are concerned - the top one is no doubt Etzebeth - the BS is Matfield.  Matfield and O'Connell were more or less on par - except that O'Connell buggered up less than Matfield did.   
Pakie
By watching the game you can see what happened - matter of fact it clarifies the performances better than stats can ever do.   However, you can also see where players bugger up and where others got blamed for ddeficienies of culprits.   Stats often enough indicate how busy the player was.  For instance it indicates how many tackles a player made - but not the quality of the player or whether the tackler merely assisted a nother player in making the tackle.   
Ball carries are different.   The number of carries and the meters gained - especially by a forward indicates the strength of a player in carrying balls and the grunt he has.   That is why a player lie Matfield is a dead loss - he cannt carry balls in traffic and the Springboks are liable to eb penalized when and if he does.
Penalties given away and ball possession losses reflects whether a player played a positive or negative role on the whole in games.   
Be it as it may - we are daling here with something that Mozart cannot prove nor substantiat.   He only saw O'Connell's age and that was all he was interested in - constantly using that kind ofthing to justify Matfield's presence in the team - irrepective of whether Matfild deserves to eb in the squad through performance.          
 

Believer, you are quite correct, Coetzee has been a massive improvement over Alberts. He must be a starter from here onwards, with Duane and Coetzee we have 2/3 of the best loose trio in the world. It's nice to see a player improve over time, both Coetzee and Duane were ordinary in 2012 and now they are probably the best in the world in their respective positions. If only the others could follow suit!

Mike.
You say Eben is the best of the lot, please explain. Matfield makes more clean outs than eben.Matfield makes more tackles than eben.Matfield takes more line out ball than eben.The only stat eben is better at is meters gained. 
You can spin it all you like. When matfield takes all the line out ball it is because matfield makes the calls.When Eben takes more line out ball it is because matfield is scared. 
When we struggle in the scrums, it's bakkies and matfield.When we struggle in the scrums with eben, then it is the props.When matfield makes more tackles than victor, it doesn't count because the tackles matfield makes is ineffective..When eben makes more tackles..Wait, Eben haven't made more tackles than Victor this year. You keep on telling us how matfield is be dominated in contact. Eben is no better. We are playing with 2 no 5 locks. Not one of the 2 are physical. Eben got tackled backwards again yesterday. And this against Italy. Both locks are useless at the moment. But it is Eben who is more invisible week in and week out. 
Mike. Let me make it easy for you. Forget about victor, good or bad.Tell me what eben is doing at the moment in the bok team that makes you defend him. Tell me this and then maybe i can try and understand you.   

 Believer you see what you want to see and ignore what you want to ignore. Etzebeth is in the top 3 because:1. It's the EOYT not the RC or June Series  2. The rest of the team have been poor  3. His lineout work has been superb, completely out-playing Matfield in that department. 

Oh mike. And another thing.

You said the following.

A player at lock must take line out balls - as you said.  taking four line out balls per game is not good enough - matter of fact below par.

So you are making my point for me?
Victor and Eben both took 4 line out balls. O'Connell took 8.

So according to your own assessment Eben and victor is below par on line outs.
Same goes for cleaning at the rucks and tackling. So how did you get to the whole Eben is the best of the 3 locks again?

Shezza.

First of all. I am not a Eben hater nor am i a victor lover.
Just to get that out of the way.
I am just trying to understand how you guys can keep on saying Victor is so bad and then try and tell me Eben is so good.
You say.

It's the EOYT not the RC or June Series

Good. Let's see what happened in the last 3 tests.
Victor took 17 line out balls and stole none.
Eben took 10 and stole 4. So line out goes to Eben.

Victor made 30 tackles and missed 2.
Eben made 17 and missed 1. So tackles go to matfield

Ball carries goes to Eben. He made a lot more that Victor.
Cleaning out at ruck time goes to Victor. He made more than double what eben did.

If you look at this you would say Victor is the 4 lock and Eben the 5 lock.
But to telling me that on this tour Eben was better than Victor is just plain stupid.

Shezza, to say i see what i want to see is a plain and simple stupid comment on your part.
I am giving the facts. I am tell you guys each player did this and that and so many times. It is here for you to read. Yet you read it and then because you like or dislike a player, you ignore the facts and stick with your opinion.
I like some players more than others. But will also be the first to agree when they had a bad game. And that is more than i can say for some on this Forum..

 

 Believer 
Where is the prove of the following:-
"Matfield makes more clean outs than eben.Matfield makes more tackles than eben.Matfield takes more line out ball than eben.The only stat eben is better at is meters gained." 
More  Cleanouts
There really is np p[rove statosticly of this component of te gam.  To make cleanouts a player has to entr the maul situation.    If there is one thing you cannot accuse Matfield of doing is to enter breakdown ball maul situation re gularly.   Matter of fact it is a rarity if he ever does that.   He is normally n about 90% of such situatuations found standing behind the resultant mauls waaiting for other players to enter the nauls and clean out the balls from there.   This ois obne of Matfield's weakest points - he does not do the Tight 5 work at all - and part of that is clean outs of balls from breakdowns - there is no envidence at all to the contrary.
More tackles
Making more tackles is mno everthing in the game - what is even more importnant is the quality of tackles.  Matfeld regularly moonlights in th backline and behind mauls - so he will obviously have more ooportunities to make tackles than orinary locks have who gets involved in mauls.   Matfield makes more lo-qualitytackles - where opponents go forw ard in the tackles and where the opposing team has no problems to reover the balls quickly and efficiently.   He also miss more tackles than other locks.   In the case of other locks like Etzebeth and De jager - they make less tackles - but when they do tackle opponents those opponents stay tackled - often enough balls in their case are only retined by the team after a fierce "battle"
Taking more Line outs
Etzewbeth was not involved inthe June tests and only started playing in the RC and is obviouslt part of the EOYT.   There are two issues here which can be statitistically proven in the 9 games invovled:-
*    Matfield called the line outs and under those circumstances you would expec t he would take more line outs than Etzebeth.  That just is not the ase -statistically he took on average  5 line outs as againt the four Etzebeth took.
*    Matfield did not taken a single line out ball from opposition throw ins during the EC and the YOYT.   Etzebeth in the last few games avera ge 2 opposition line out takes.
*    Matfield has lost balls on own throw-in at critical times during matches - it happened for instace in the Ellis Park test late in teh game near the AB tryline - which loss resulted in an AB try.
R=The above myths indicate a player with serious deficiencies in Tight  5 play - he is fairly useless in that and weakens the Springsboks Tight 5.   People who fail to understand that fails to undertand a basic requirement of Tight 5 play.   That is why it is impossible to compare any lock with Matfield - since he fails to perform in 80% ofnthe functions a lock should be able to perform.   
Fact is he wa one new element that was brought into the test scene forom Junethis year and when compared ti kast year - the Springbok Tight  5 last year functioned better last year than they did this year.   So why did that happen when Matffield is the only rel change?   Simple logic says he is causing damage to th team efforts in the relevant regard.    

Believer nice to have some balanced objective posts. I do feel HM is not making the most of the EOYT in terms of player rotation. He may have plans to use Victor in the RWC but if he picks up an injury whoever the back up 4 is should have had a lot more game time.

There are lies, damn lies and stats. 
Too many missed contexts within stats for me to read them, rugby is played by robots.

If it wasn't for statistics we couldn't fly jets or build bridges. So I think they can be applied to rugby without too much risk Shezza. But you have to relate observation and statistics. The more data points employed ....the more accurate the conclusion. 
The data from a whole  season of S 15 games is probably quite an accurate insight into kick vs run....quantity and success of tackling....and the ability to beat defences. 
In individual games only fairly gross observations are meaningful. You can't say too much about 9 vs 8 tackles out of 10. But when four members of the Bok starting backline couldn't better 50 percent of tackles made, it gives you a real insight into why we failed to win the RC at Ellis Park last year.

 Mozart
I partially agree with you - namely that stats could confirm what actually ahppened on the field of play - without actually giving an indication of how those occurences immpacted on the outc ome of gamess.   
You referred to the Elli Pakr test last year and especially to the tackling issue by the bacjkline players - but do not go into detail.   In essence some tackles are obviously more important thatn others and in that test it was not only the backline players who failed - since the first try scored by the AB's actuually stemmed from a missed tackle by Willem Alberts on Read.
The second try was a mess - not really stemming from missed tackles - but failure of Alberts to even endeavour to recover the tackle ball from Aaron Smith - instead falling oiver his own feet.  The third try stemmed from an idiotic decsion of Morne Steyn second before the end of the first half not to make a rleieving kick, but to pass the ball.   The forth try came because Jean de Villiers rusghed out of the defensive line and was stepped by Barrett - after which both Morne Steyn and Engelbrecht failed to tackle Barrett.   
So tackles are important - but even more so - is the ened to take proper decisions in playing of the game.    Poor decision making has had a vastly more serious impact on winning or losing of matches.    

 Savea by a long shot

 Saffex
Don't take thois thread seriously - you should know by now what prompted this athread.   Remember O'Connell is 35 years of age - and Mozart is punting him - just like he waspunting Thorne to p[rov that Matfield at 37 is still jsutified.   With Mozart it is to proof that older players ar better than younger ones.   All a load of BS without limits.  
Savea is not over 33 - so Mozart will not accept him.