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FORUM / RUGBY /  My thoughts

My thoughts

Started by Saffolk 21 REPLIES1,918 VIEWS· 09 Oct 2017, 15:42
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Oct 2017, 15:42
#1
09 Oct 2017, 15:42#1
 

Well that was a pleasant surprise but on the other hand it’s not really given the fact that as I have always maintained, we have the players we just don’t have the coach.

 

The fact that Brendan Venter has been brought on board, kind of alleviates the coaching issue to some extent.

 

We should have beaten the All Blacks, we were the better side in the end. But we lost because we are yet to embrace a more attacking approach.

 

The All Blacks had us for the first 40 min where they played all the rugby and all we did was defend with the magnificent Marx bailing us out on numerous occasions with his turnovers – hell what a player he is.

 

Those added 10min in the first half seem to galvanise us into believing we could challenge and from then on we bullied the AB’s physically, but in reality that’s all we did. In this respect, Kitshoff, Marx, Etzebeth, Lood and PSDT were magnificent, as was du Preez and Wilco Louw when they came on.

 

While PSDT is not a 7, he proved once and for all what a class act he is……..his physicality was immense along with Etzebeth.

 

So we know we can dominate the physical battles, hardly surprising considering we are talking Kitshoff, Marx, Etzenbeth, Lood, PSDT, and du Preez…….these guys tend to win the physical collisions ……….but our game needs to evolve from this, we have shown moments of this against the likes of France and the Argies this year but we need to do the same against the major sides especially if we are able to dominate the physical battles. There are some positives in taking contact and bashing it up, it sets up multiple phases drawing defenders in and tires out the opposition. But there is no point in being predictable and not attacking space or moving it out wide on regular occasions.

 

That is what makes the AB’s a better side, they always compete physically but look to attack when the opportunity presents itself. Note their fullback, wings and 13 in terms of metres run versus our wings and Kriel at 13……..they ran far far more metres than our players as they take it wide. Conversely, Serfontein was our most productive back, running more metres and beating more defenders than SBW by some distance. We are playing it narrow, it’s too predictable. Serfontein was brilliant as he has been all year, there is no doubting this guy is back to his best.

 

Moving forward we need to evolve, we need to embrace variety, stick to our physical strengths but also trust our abilities to attack.

 

The issue in this regard is Coetzee, by nature he is a conservative coach uncomfortable with the expansive game. We saw an expansive approach against France and the Argies but as the opposition got tougher we resorted back to Coetzee’s default of crash bash and kick possession away. I’m not advocating an all-out attack, I’m after a balance – dominate the collisions, wear the opposition down but exploit this by attacking space and playing it wide.

 

While we are able to dominate the physical collisions we fail to exploit this advantage with the offload and support runners running great lines. Imagine how much more effective we would be if half those dominant collisions by the likes of Etzebeth, Marx, Kitshoff, Lood, du Preez and PSDT lead to an offload to a support runner taking it forward? It’s a skill the AB’s prefect in training by training under pressure conditions. We need to be doing the same. The modern game is all about the offload, as collisions dominate. There is little point in beating a man in contact then going down, because that’s your instinct. The mind-set needs to change with a view to carrying on the momentum with an offload.

 

With reference to the players, we certainly have a core of great players but there is so much room for improvement in terms of personnel.

 

We need to get rid of Leyds, Cronje, Paige, Dreyer, Chiliboy, Cassiem and Louw

 

I’d take the following squad on the end of year tour, eligibility rule aside:

 

15. Coetzee / Gelant

14. Nkosi / Mapimpi

13. Kriel / Janse van Rensburg / Am

12. Serf / de Allende / Vorster

11. Combrink / Skosan / Senatla

10. Jantjies / Pollard / Willemse

9. Faf / Reinach / Schreuder

1. Kitshoff / du Toit / Nyakane

2. Marx / Aker / Ox Nche (play him at hooker)

3. Wilco Louw / Coenie / Malherbe

4. Etzebeth / Paul Willemse /Jenkins

5. PSDT / Lood

6. Kriel / Kolisi

7. JL. du Preez / Mostert / Jacques du Plessis

8. Marcel Coetzee / D du Preez / Notshe

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2017, 16:36
#2
09 Oct 2017, 16:36#2
 Dave 
You must be careful here.  Our board expert Mozart blames Du Toit, Du Preez and De Allende for the loss on Saturday.   
Where I differ from you is at flyhalf.   Jantjies was in fact not up to standard during the RC and that may have been the reason for the centers showing no real punch.   Problem is that I do not think Pollard is matchfit and one cannot really come to a conclusion on him as well.   I like Willemse and Bosch a lot  and even Jean-Luc du Plessis.   Unless Pollard - whom I believe was poorly coached by Ludeke ad Meyer can get out of the rut he is in at present - I think we will have to see how thwe youngsters I mentioned develop in the upcoming Super Rugby season.
 I wouyld rather have Beast and not Nyakane as back-up loosehead prop.
I see Coetzee is back in SA to see his specialist - his k nee injury is still troubling him.   I would also select Whiteley ahead of Notshe at 8/
By the way the players who really let down the Springboks on Saturday were Francois Louw, Jantjies, Dreyer and Leyds        
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Oct 2017, 17:08
#3
09 Oct 2017, 17:08#3

Blaming PSDT after that performance is insulting.


Dreyer is utterly useless, always has been


du Preez is a class act


You are 100% wrong regarding Jantjies - the issue is the pathetic service from Cronje and the fact that AC has steered back to the conservative approach - his default.


Jantjies needs the freedom to express himself, restricting him results in him playing with uncertainty.


He was allowed to express himself against France and the Argies and to a lesser extent against Oz.......but for some stupid reason AC decided the crash bash and kick was the only way to play against the AB's.


Jantjies in not your conservative type.......the only 10 that could execute the true AC gameplan would be useless Morne Steyn


Forget Whiteley, he is too small for test rugby and nearly 30, move on......Notshe is a class act, would not make the starting side.......good to have in the squad as variety as he is fast and good at playing a linking role. I like Carr for that role as well.


Beast is too old now, time to move on. I like Trevor plus he can play both sides. Purely on merit I'd select Kebble as my third loosehead


 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Oct 2017, 17:18
#4
09 Oct 2017, 17:18#4
 
Dave ... how about the service from Faff to Jantjies at test level ... or ... your favourite HouGat to Jantjies at test level?

It seems that no matter who you put at 9 ... he'll be taking the flack for a pathetic Jantjies.

The common denominator is JANTJIES. He is a walking disaster ... he doesn't have the stones to play pressure rugby ...not at any level.

 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2017, 17:20
#5
09 Oct 2017, 17:20#5
Oh sure Stephanie didn’t lose his lineout at minute 67 and things never went downhill from there. And Allende never gave away the crucial penalty. Same old BS....we were close because we stopped attacking indiscriminately. Dave you are clueless. . Your list is just as poor as always....what happened to Jumbo, Lambie, Reinach, Esterhozen....Marcel, Quince and all the others. Names on the ever changing rolodex.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Oct 2017, 17:30
#6
09 Oct 2017, 17:30#6
 
De Allende is PATHETICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC.

I see Dave's discarded HouGat ... I wonder why???



BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
09 Oct 2017, 20:36
#7
09 Oct 2017, 20:36#7
 The names on ouDawie's lists are secondary  ..........  the fetish is list compilations.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2017, 21:23
#8
09 Oct 2017, 21:23#8
 Sure the team went downhill after minute 67 - another lie!!  When did Marx scored his try?   Useless to discuss rugby with a fraud. 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Oct 2017, 21:50
#9
09 Oct 2017, 21:50#9
  the fetish is list compilations.
It just means that the paper shredder is in active service.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2017, 22:07
#10
09 Oct 2017, 22:07#10
It’s really simple Tokkie you dumb plank. At minute 67 we were ahead by 17 points to 15 ....at minute 80 we were behind by 24 points to 25......we went downhill.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2017, 23:12
#11
09 Oct 2017, 23:12#11
 You think anybody believe your prejudiced junk deductions - fool?
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,257 posts
10 Oct 2017, 00:22
#12
10 Oct 2017, 00:22#12
 This is a good team Saffex. It selects most of the best players, with a decent mix of all colours. 
I have made a few updates.


15. Coetzee / Gelant/ Jessie Kriel

Coetzee is a placeholder. He is solid, but not great. Tries hard, but lacks a natural Spark.

Willie Leroux is an option at 15, or 14- as is Jessie Kriel. Kriel has the pace for wing.


14. Nkosi / Mapimpi

Both are form players. Nkosi has more bulk to take on the big New Zealand wingers, but Mampimpi is a very effective try scorer. 


13. Kriel / Janse van Rensburg / Am

Kriel has been poor most of the year, but he did have a very good game against Australia - in SA.


12. Pollard/ Vorster/ Serf / de Allende / 

Serf is as strong as an ox, but his playmaking ability is limited.

Some change has to happen in the midfield- either Kriel or Serfontein.


11. Combrink / Skosan / Senatla

Skosan has this wrapped up for now.


10. Jantjies / Curwin Bosh/Willemse

Curwin Bosch has the best kicking game of any flyhalf including pole kicking, and territory, and tactical kicking. 



9. Coetzee/ Schreuder /  Faf / 


1. Kitshoff / Beast du Toit / Nyakane

2. Marx / Aker / Ox Nche (play him at hooker)

3. Wilco Louw / Coenie / Malherbe

4. Etzebeth / Lood

5. PSDT / Lood

6. Kriel / Kolisi

7. JL. du Preez / Mostert / Jacques du Plessis

8. Marcel Coetzee / D du Preez / Notshe

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Oct 2017, 07:58
#13
10 Oct 2017, 07:58#13
SB
Pollard has a lot to prove before he can be considered for any position -whether fyhalf or center.   At this stage we still think that he is like he was in the JWC - but his injuries and negative training by Ludeke and Meyer - has damaged his performances.   If Smith can knock out the BS out of him he can still be a good selection.   
The center combination of Vorster and Van Resburg is a much better combination than Serfontein and Kriel.    Vorster is a thinking player - an advantage he has over the other centers mentioned.
I am not at all sure about Jantjies - he is just not performing on international level.   Next years Super Rugby will indicate whether the future flyhalfs should be.  My money is on Willmse - followed by Bosch and Du Plessis. 
I assume your scrummies include Cronje (not Coetzee).    Another youngster to be on the look out for is the new bulls scrummie Van Zyl - I think his name is Ivan.   Lets see what Super Rugby produces.
Who is Beast Du Toit - I think Du Toit's nickname is tank.
Amongst the hookers I think Franco Marais of the Sharks is another guy to look out for in  2018
Another guy who is maturing rapidly is Schickerling at lock.   This guy is someone for the future.
I would rather have Whiteley at 7 than Jacques du Plessis - he is way to slow to be a flank forward in the modern game.   Whiteley is also an option at 8.
My squad would look like follows;-
15   Coetzee/Le Roux/Gelant14   Nkosi/Le Roux13   Vorster/Kriel12   Van Rensburg/De Allende11   Combrinck/Mapimpi10   Willemse/Bosch/Du Plessis  9   Schreuder/Van Zyl/Cronje  8   Coetzee/J-L du Preez/Whiteley  7   J-L du Preez/ Whiteley  6   Kriel, Wiese  5   Du Toit/De Jager/Schickerling  4   Etzebeth/De Jager/Willemse  3   Malherbe/Coenie/Louw  2   Marx, Nche/Marais/Akker  1   Kitshoff/Beast/Du Toit
I think that Le Roux was too early for the type of rugby he indulges in.   Under Meyer and also last year under Coetzee the team was not ready to support him in innovative backline play.   If the team culture change to a comprehensive game with good support runners Le Roux would flourish as well.  
Incidentally I prefer Combrinck because of his ability to kick long distance penalty kicks.    The others are not that competent and he can also be the back-up goal; kicker.  


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Oct 2017, 09:24
#14
10 Oct 2017, 09:24#14

Moz stop speaking utter fucking shit your pathetic prejudice against players is tiresome.......to even begin to imply that PSDT was anything but great in that game is laughable.


What he did do was prove how utterly clueless you are because once again his performance showed your ignorance up. Losing a line-out wow, does that define him?


My list is spot on as usual your pathetic little attempt at humour falls flat......Reinach is on the list you numpty.


This pathetic response, instead of constructive is the very reason I cant be asked with this site anymore.....its boring, its childish, its consumed by pathetic personal attacks on eachother, something I used to involve myself in.......move on  

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Oct 2017, 09:26
#15
10 Oct 2017, 09:26#15

Given the pathetic responses on here...........I'm out of here........fuck the majority of you



You are as boring as fuck  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Oct 2017, 09:43
#16
10 Oct 2017, 09:43#16
 Chicken!
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Oct 2017, 10:43
#17
10 Oct 2017, 10:43#17
Dave, by leaving you're just helping to further Moffie's childish little agenda.

It's Moffie's aim to chase decent posters away and surround himself on this forum with as many Servile Gimps as possible . . . like Baboon-ou, Dumb Ass, Dense and a few others . . . to kiss his fat arse, stoke his fragile ego and deflect attention away from the fact that he's a blowhard and a rugby noob.

Rather stick around and expose the tedious old bore for the biased and blinkered fool he is . . . as you did on this thread already.

Think of how tearful and irate he gets when anyone says anything positive about Pieter-Steph du Toit or one of the Du Preez twins and have a good laugh at his pathetic efforts to discredit them at every opportunity.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Oct 2017, 13:18
#18
10 Oct 2017, 13:18#18
 Rooinek
After watching the ga,me again I must list the list of pathetic performers as -
1   Louw'2   Jantjies3   Dreyer4   Leyds
Mozart is always quick to use3 stats in dealing with players he wants to discredit or praise.    However, he did not quote the styats of Du Toit at all - neither did he do so iro the Du Preez.    So lets look a the stats to discredit the useless  old fart again in this instance:-
Pass                                       2Carries                                  21Meters gained                        41Defenders beaten                     1Turnovers conceded                  1Tackles made                          10Tackles missed                         3
This illustrate a hardworking and effective player.   
Louw on the other hand was pathetic.    He was totally out of depth and together with Kolisi totally ineffective as well.  
If on reads any of Mozart's posts one would only conclude he hates certain players without any reason other than prejudice.   The3 players made the mistake of threatening some of his oldies in the selection stakes and proved to be better performers than the oldies.  




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2017, 13:37
#19
10 Oct 2017, 13:37#19
Dear me.....I guess Stephanie didn’t blow the lineout that could've consolidated our win. Dave stay or go.....but if you are bored go by all means, you will probably be less bored and so will we.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Oct 2017, 15:30
#20
10 Oct 2017, 15:30#20
 Mozart
The BSter must have the hots for Du Toit or besotted with the man - hence his constant BS attacks on him.   
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Oct 2017, 15:49
#21
10 Oct 2017, 15:49#21
Dave, when Mozart uses “we” in his text about you staying or going he must be confused because he is only speaking for himself & that doesn’t qualify as “we”. Sadly the number of posters seems to be on the decline, eg a lot of kiwis have disappeared or rarely post. So stay & help keep the balance in the discussion.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Oct 2017, 20:17
#22
10 Oct 2017, 20:17#22
Nice touch JW.
— END OF THREAD —

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