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FORUM / RUGBY /  Naas said there is no SA Flyhalf capable of playing a tactical game

Naas said there is no SA Flyhalf capable of playing a tactical game

Started by clevermike28 REPLIES1,027 VIEWS· 25 Nov 2017, 13:44
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Nov 2017, 13:44
#1
25 Nov 2017, 13:44#1

The performance of Pollard last week was a subject of serious misgivings by both Naas and Willemse before the test against Italy.   On the negative part his kicking game was poor and that was a major deficiency but he was better than Jantjies in getting the line moving.


One can only hope that things go better today - but I think the best thing for Pollard to happen is for him to get some real coaching from Mitchell.   It is also clear that his coaching from his junior days onwards by Ludeke and Meyer - clueless about tactical play caused havoc in the case of Pollard.  


Hope he gets it right today.  

MO
Moonrover
Pro1,973 posts
MO
MoonroverPro1,973 posts
26 Nov 2017, 07:13
#2
26 Nov 2017, 07:13#2

Why doesn't Naas get off his arse and coach the kid!Tough game coming up,Wales looked good against NZ

Flashdakota
Flashdakota
Club Pro805 posts
Flashdakota
FlashdakotaClub Pro805 posts
26 Nov 2017, 18:46
#3
26 Nov 2017, 18:46#3
One needs to remember that Pollard hasn’t played a game all year. France was his first start. I wouldn’t read too much into that gaffe. He was really good to watch vs the Azzuri. As a Jantjies fan, I wasn’t too sad to see him lose his starting spot. I think he may have more of an impact coming off the bench....
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,257 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,257 posts
26 Nov 2017, 19:14
#4
26 Nov 2017, 19:14#4
Jantjies may be a better impact player, but it also depends on the game plan and coaches. Who is better at kick and chase? Or who can play and all-round 10man and 15man game
Perhaps coaches could get more from Jantjies than Coetzee. 90% of the best coaches are from New Zealand, including the Irish coach. It would be interesting to see if John Mitchell would choose Jantjies or Pollard, and how the game plan would be influenced by selection.
Flashdakota
Flashdakota
Club Pro805 posts
Flashdakota
FlashdakotaClub Pro805 posts
26 Nov 2017, 19:35
#5
26 Nov 2017, 19:35#5

Funny you say that sharkbok...

Coetzee always seems to get the worst out of Jantjies, and i feel that may be the case for a few other players.


Honestly, I understand the shift in pace between Super XV and international rugby, but in this case, i feel it has a lot more to do with the coach than the player.


Think back to Jantjies stint at the Stormers. He was terrible to watch.


I understand quotas etc... but for heavens sakes, lets at least get a coach that isnt a BEE coach!

sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,257 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,257 posts
26 Nov 2017, 22:59
#6
26 Nov 2017, 22:59#6

@Flash

Coetzee may be a BEE, but is he worse than many of the alternatives in SA. Most talk an expansive game, but when the games get tough revert to kick and chase donkey plan.

1.  Naka Drotskie - pathetic.. Brad macleod henderson- a school fitness teacher... Robbie Fleck a lost student with no teacher, since Eddie Jones deserted... Nollis Marais. a lost fart. At best a pub team coach... (Bulls reject, and now under21 coach).

2. Gary Gold. Useless....

3 Rodoelf Straulie. Former Army enforcement officer. Now a commercial director of rugby... 

4. Brendan Venter is the best of a bad bunch. Always has his own exit plan to get out of coaching to return to his dental practice before the shi.t hits the fan. Good to talk about rugby around the braai or for short term basics

I am sure that a good New Zealand coach would get more out of the team than these clowns.

Our best coaches at the moment are probably Jake White and Ackerman, otherwise, the only option is to use a top quality New Zealand coach.


KI
kingcorn
Pro3,695 posts
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
27 Nov 2017, 21:04
#7
27 Nov 2017, 21:04#7
I would bring back Jake White. Not the flashiest of coaches, comes with his own set of problems, but he has coached quite a few of the players in the past. Will at least stop the rott and make sure the team never gets thumped again. I don't think Super rugby coaches makes for good test coaches. Meyer, Deans, Cheika are all super rugby coaches that struggled and that is mainly because they are to loyal to their former players or to naive
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2017, 21:44
#8
27 Nov 2017, 21:44#8
White is the obvious answer....the day he takes over we gain immediate gravitas. But it will never happen now that Rassie is the Wizard behind the curtain.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2017, 22:21
#9
27 Nov 2017, 22:21#9
Lets face facts - we have a record of clueless coaches about backline play and that includes Jake White. The problem remains that I would rate the coaches as follows when it comes to backline play:- Jake White - 3/10 De Villiers - 1/10 Meyer - -1/10 Coetzee - -5/10 A typical indication of the rank stupidity of Coetzee is the fact that he preferred De Jongh to Huw Jones when coaching the Stormers. The only positive in the case of Jake White was the fact that he knew his limitation and brought Eddie Jones to help out in the case of the 2007 WC campaign, He used Larkham in the case of the Brumbies - but then went loony in the case of the Sharks and Montpellier with disastrous results for his personal career - he got effectively fired by both franchises, The problem with the above is that they are adherents to the kick and chase game - but they do not realize that in the case of that aspect coaching is necessary - we have a long series of poor kicking half-backs. The players do not know where to kick and when to kick and when not to. They obviously are oblivious to how to use kicking as a means to put pressure on the recipients and use kicking as an attacking weapon. The main "weapon" the opposition have out of them is an assurance that their kicking game is certain to hand over possession straight back to them. So where to now? I ted to agree with SB - get a real coach in for a change and look beyond SA coaches for that purpose.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2017, 00:21
#10
28 Nov 2017, 00:21#10
Coming from the guy who passionately fought for Goosen and Swiel as the answer at Bok 10....that’s a bit rich.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2017, 05:20
#11
28 Nov 2017, 05:20#11
Coming from a guy who passionately supported Morne Steyn and lately Frans Steyn as Springbok flyhalfs, and then invented what I wrote about player performances being watched in future before selection in the process naming a number of players I said should be watched in the process.
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Chippo
Pro3,372 posts
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ChippoPro3,372 posts
28 Nov 2017, 08:30
#12
28 Nov 2017, 08:30#12
aaaand they're back! I thought you guys were friends for a while!
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2017, 14:06
#13
28 Nov 2017, 14:06#13
Oh and who told us Pollard was a lost cause a week ago. One can’t befriend stoopid.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2017, 14:38
#14
28 Nov 2017, 14:38#14
Chippo Not to worry I am not responding to personal attacks of Mozart and will opnly point out to him when he goes off the track. Mozart I never wrote off Pollard and repeatedly said that he may benefit from coaching by Mitchell. If Mitchell find him inadequate and he cannot make the grade then there is little hope that he would not become another Morne and Fransie. However, I grant he showed some life against Italy - but Italy is a weak team and not a top performer,. I hope he improves from the airy fairy performances under Meyer when Meyer used him as stand-in flyhalf in the WC.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2017, 14:50
#15
28 Nov 2017, 14:50#15
Sure Tokkie....Pollard needs help, but Lambie, Goosen and Swiel are just fine.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2017, 19:00
#16
28 Nov 2017, 19:00#16
Lambie, Foosen and Swiel are not in the present Springbok squad so please be realistic when you debate something.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2017, 20:20
#17
28 Nov 2017, 20:20#17
Nor are Frans and Morne in the squad, didn’t stop you attacking them again right on this string. Another embarrassing case of do what I say, not what I do.
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Nov 2017, 20:33
#18
28 Nov 2017, 20:33#18
Well, IMO, Robert du Preez had the best ballanced game in Cirrie Cup this year. He had some decent form in Super Rigby too. Yet he wasn't even in the squad. I'm a Pollard fan, but on merit, he should not have been anywhere near the Boks this season . Both Lionel Cronje and Rob Dup should have been ahead of him. Same goes for DdA and a few other stupid picks.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2017, 05:19
#19
29 Nov 2017, 05:19#19
You are trying to distort what I wrote. Both Morne and Steyn are kicking dummes without anything else to enhance their game. I certainly won't like it if Pollard develop into something similar - as Meyer and Coetzee tried to make him. If that becomes the norm he will be of no value to the Springbok team. However, if that idiocy could be coached out of him bty Mitchell next year then I will be certainly one of his biggest supporters. He showed signs of life against Italy - but he still made poor kicks as well - so in m opinion the jury is out in his case, Lets hope for the best - but we will have to wait and see what happens in Super Rugby.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2017, 05:43
#20
29 Nov 2017, 05:43#20
You are trying to distort what I wrote. Both Morne and Steyn are kicking dummes without anything else to enhance their game. I certainly won't like it if Pollard develop into something similar - as Meyer and Coetzee tried to make him. If that becomes the norm he will be of no value to the Springbok team. However, if that idiocy could be coached out of him bty Mitchell next year then I will be certainly one of his biggest supporters. He showed signs of life against Italy - but he still made poor kicks as well - so in m opinion the jury is out in his case, Lets hope for the best - but we will have to wait and see what happens in Super Rugby next year.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2017, 14:05
#21
29 Nov 2017, 14:05#21
Pollard has always played to the line...when we beat the ABs in 2014, and last week against Italy. Du Preez is a decent choice, but Pollard is more likely to spark something in the backline. The comparison between Allende and Pollard doesn’t hold water. Pollard is coming back from a whole season missed and serious illness. He performed with excellence at the WC as one of the youngest players in finals. Allende is an unfulfilled promise. For some reason Pollard was never a flavour of the day Bok, i’m guessing because some fans thought Lambie was going to succeed as a test flyhalf in spite all the bad experiences. Pollard doesn’t need special coaching he was a match winner in his first test. What he needs is to remain free of injury and a coach who has a consistent vision for the whole backline. He is a competitor and will deliver.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2017, 05:42
#22
30 Nov 2017, 05:42#22
I really am surprised by the praise song of Mozart iro of Pollard in the 2015 RWC. I know he was selected at flyhalf - but was sidelined in the whole series. Take for instance the semi. Du Preez passed the ball 42 times of whicxh 14 passes went to Pollard, He had no opportunity to prove anything in all WC games - zip. Since he had to kick balls more than he passed same and his own carries were reduced drastically. As to his test history - he was good in two tests in 2014 - ie against the Scots and the AB's. Meyer used him intermittently and used the disastrous Steyn until the latter fouled up grossly in the Perth test. After the poor performance in the 2014 EOYT against Ireland Pollard was replaced by Lambie for the remaining EOYT tests. Pollard's declining performances can squarely being laid at the door of Meyer and Ludeke bearing in mind their ridiculous game plan. Under a decent coach Pollard can come right - but where is one to be found?
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Nov 2017, 07:20
#23
30 Nov 2017, 07:20#23
The overlooking of Du Preez is incredibly foolish!!
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Nov 2017, 08:15
#24
30 Nov 2017, 08:15#24
“ Take for instance the semi. Du Preez passed the ball 42 times of whicxh 14 passes went to Pollard, He had no opportunity to prove anything in all WC games - zip.” And then you talk of the “rugby ignorance” of others. Have you at least try to explain to yourself how and why that happened? Have you considered those figures with other games? Have you had a look at what happens in other games, ie what percentage of balls go from 9 to 10 and what percentage of balls goes from 9 to forwards and loose forwards while setting up phases? The number of balls that went from Du Preez to Pollard ads nothing to your argument. You are arguing for the sake of arguing.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2017, 13:51
#25
30 Nov 2017, 13:51#25
I tell you who was side lined....Pat Lambie. The guy Tokkie preferred at 10. After a pathetic display against Japan, Lambie never started another game and Pollard took charge.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2017, 15:17
#26
30 Nov 2017, 15:17#26
Ceradunce Can you ever get anything worthwhile to think about. Meyer went into the 2015 WC with the ideas of playing Bulls rugby of 2004 using his over-aged players - who could do nothing different in any event. It was already evident in the disastrous Japan test and he then changed the scrummie - with a similar game plan in the ensuing tests. The fact is the BS spouted by Meyer was clearly evident throughout his coaching career and the usage of backline players other to chase poorly kicked balls and defend was his norm. The BS kicks by Morne served his game plan very well. Coetzee is even worse in that regard, so it is evident that Pollard needs a different coaching approach than the BS used by Meyer and Ludeke - end of story.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2017, 15:22
#27
30 Nov 2017, 15:22#27
Mozart Lambie was out with injury most of 2017 and was not considered as a result. Listen carefully - I prefer and support performing players - not the duds you usually support. I never ever said Pollard is not going to be the future Bok flyhalf - provided he ups his performance since he was downgraded caused by poor coaching by Meyer and Ludeke. I have repeatedly said Pollard has a chance of success and hope that Mitchell will knock out of him the Meyer and Ludeke BS.
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2017, 15:22
#28
30 Nov 2017, 15:22#28
Mozart Lambie was out with injury most of 2017 and was not considered as a result. Listen carefully - I prefer and support performing players - not the duds you usually support. I never ever said Pollard is not going to be the future Bok flyhalf - provided he ups his performance since he was downgraded caused by poor coaching by Meyer and Ludeke. I have repeatedly said Pollard has a chance of success and hope that Mitchell will knock out of him the Meyer and Ludeke BS.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2017, 15:36
#29
30 Nov 2017, 15:36#29
We are not talking about 2017. We are talking about the WC you tedious man....you know....where you said ‘ he was sidelined the whole series’. Pollard is like Louw, Vermeulen and even Etzebeth....a player who isn’t really part of the little cadre you dote upon....and so a target the moment any mistake occurs.
— END OF THREAD —

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