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FORUM / RUGBY /  Naming and blaming refs

Naming and blaming refs

Started by Beeno114 REPLIES283 VIEWS· 04 May 2012, 02:00
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 May 2012, 17:04
#1
04 May 2012, 17:04#1

I have not heard much about this as a policy by SANZAR but this issue raised its head on Sport 24

South African rugby supporters are often accused of suspecting conspiracies against the Boks around every corner. But SANZAR just fuelled that suspicion and demonstrated that our claim, that we often receive “special” treatment from our rivals and “allies”, is not unfounded or caused by paranoia or perceptions devoid of any truth.   Very uncharacteristic SANZAR just pointed out a mistake by a referee and an injustice done to a team. That the referee is a South African and the victim the Brumbies from Australia probably explains why SANZAR decided to be so honest on this occasion.   That the “beneficiary” of the bad piece of refereeing was the Bulls, from South Africa, also motivated SANZAR to seek moral high grounds and to become an unlikely fraternity of truth seeking gentlemen.     SANZAR said the Bulls scored a try after a knock by Morne Steyn and that it cost the Brumbies the game; i.e. SANZAR officially admitted that referee Marius Jonker and his assistant referees fucked up.   Cool, what commendable honesty and how refreshing to hear these guys actually criticising a referee. After all we all pleaded with rugby governing and administrative bodies to be more open about the doings and especially the screwings of referees and match officials.   Finally they answered our call and to be honest I am not surprised that it was a South African referee they saw when they said: there is one in the spotlight, put him up against the wall.   So then, finally they have named and shamed; but will they be consistent and do the same when referees from New Zealand and Australia are involved?     Jonker’s mistake was certainly not the first this year, but quite uniquely he is exposed by SANZAR. Could SANZAR be so bloody kind to point out all the mistakes made by referees in this year’s Super Series and also name and shame those idiots.     Yes, I saw the Bulls’ knock-on; but I also saw the two penalty transgressions in Australia’s try against the Boks in last year's world cup.   In the spirit of truth and to get closure, I believe all South Africans, including Jonker, will deeply appreciate an honest and official confirmation from SANZAR that Bryce Lawrence cost the Boks the world cup and that they will negotiate an apology from the IRB for not naming and shaming Bryce from New Zealand.   Sanzar management and the referees would do well to bear in mind that they are there “manage” the game of Rugby in the Super 15 context and to apply the rules of rugby as defined and written by the IRB, in a fair, objective, not subjective manner and NOT to choke the life out of the game or to manipulate the outcome of matches!
Certain keenly anticipated rugby “match-ups” become a LOTTERYrelative to who the match official is… (Now who has been saying this for years  -Beeno barring refs and injuires) and too HELL with Sanzar and their Referees’ Association if they wish to cast doubt on the average Rugby fan’s ability to understand and interpret the laws of the game or that we, the fans, do not have a right to criticize or do not know what we are talking about!!!
In a recent match, for twenty five minutes of the second half, the match official made conscious decisions to manoeuvre the outcome in favour of the “chosen” team. To anyone with an inkling of the laws of the game and an ability to be unbiased, it was blatantly obvious. In an international cricket match suggestion of “match fixing” would abound…..
So I agree unreservedly with TruVanPunt’s view that Sanzar should mind their P’s and Q’s when it comes to openly criticizing a particular ref and take cognizance of the fact that they may NOT act in a subjective fashion when their mandate is to be a nonaligned Rugby Administrator!   Hi Brendon, I have to disagree with your Bryce Lawrence-view for the very reason you mention; he is a good referee. On that day, when he did the Boks in, he had an experience that goes beyond a shocker.

Andre Watson says it was as if Bryce was in a mind space of his own. The question is what brought that condition on: anxiety? I don’t think. Tim Noakes suggested that the laws of bent science will prove that Bryce made more than the normal number of mistakes and agrees that something caused it.

I would say a third party caused Bryce to be in a space of his own. I believe the outcome of the game between the Boks and Aus was predetermined by a third party. I furthermore think it was the first occurrence of match fixing in an international game. SARU are a bunch of idiots thats why SANZAR walks all over them. They need to be more vocal about the injustices against SA teams and do this through the media the way NZ and Aus do !!! Once incident that really irked me was Masaga's hit on Mvovo....no penalty....no white card!!!How was that worse than Butch James the past weekend??? Come on SARU stop being pussies and talk up!!! As I said in a previous comment I think it was a knock and it seems that Steyn also thought so at the time. What baffles me, and I explained this to SAAB, is the heated reaction from SANZAR whilst they and the IRB to this day failed to criticise Bryce. (Bwahahahhaha nz made him ref of the year!!!)

If they find it so easy to name and shame Jonker they should not have a problem to admit that Bryce deliberately caused the Boks to lose
: the laws of bent science will prove that if they care to investigate. If that ball did not fall forward as many I believe Bulls supporters love to believe, Morne Steyn, must be either the biggest poker player or very stupid for "deceiving" everybody on-field by standing still when what he "pretended" to make-believe to be a knock-on. And whalla, everybody stands still until someone shouts "No knock-on". Wonder who that was. SAAB, yes, it seems that there are differences of opinion whether the ball was knocked on or not. Personally I think it was a knock and that the referee made a mistake that cost the Brumbies.

The fact is SANZAR acted very uncharacteristically by pointing a finger in the referee’s eye. My argument is that they were thus far very reluctant to criticise their referees. Also, by doing this they should surely came on record about the Bryce-incident. The difference is that Marius had a bad game and that he made more mistakes than usually.

In the case of Bryce, he made more than the average amount of mistakes. If you use the theory of bent science you will find that Bryce made so many mistakes that he meant to end the Bok’s tournament. Jonker had a bad game but Bryce simply crooked.

Neither SANZAR nor the IRB ever criticised Bryce or launched an investigation. After all Bryce cost a team the world cup, the coach his job and broke a nation’s heart. Now weigh the consequences of the two scenarios up and tell me if it makes any sense that Marius was named and shamed. (They did boot him off their panel of elite refs)   I really dont reckon a high qualified ref like Jonker would put his job on the line for a s15 game. No, he won’t but the allegation was not that he cheated. He was accused of bad refereeing. If you want to see what is cheat then go and have a look at Bryce in action in the Boks and Ausie game in NZ’s World Cup. "In the spirit of truth and to get closure, I believe all South Africans, including Jonker, will deeply appreciate an honest and official confirmation from SANZAR that Bryce Lawrence cost the Boks the world cup and that they will negotiate an apology from the IRB for not naming and shaming Bryce from New Zealand." How's this for relevance and topicality, DREAM ON!   They did name and shame that fool that cost the Cheetahs the game against the Brumbies, Ausie ref... there was another one but I can't remember who it was. Then it is definitely becoming a tendency. The NZAR part are a bunch of wallies, but then the SA guys aren't far behind for meekly accepting it Saturdays game between Sharks and Chiefs, 5min to go, the ref penalises the Sharks for not releasing Chiefs player after tackle was made. No problem, good call. 3 Minutes to go the same transgretion this time the shoe is on the other foot, the Sharks was on the attack and trailing by just 2 points. This time he (NZ ref) punishes the Sharks for holding onto the ball. Very inconsistant and only 2 minutes apart     I can't ever recall SA rugby fans being as fed up with a ref as they have been with BL.  We have lost previous world cups without  a beep. You can see this ref issue is boiling up and SA fans are just fed up with the bent refs and SANZAR goings on.  Time to clean up your act as the SA Rugby fan is on to all you bent down under refs. As for us we have a few bad apples that need to be reprimanded and warned and dealt with. However I am not clear as to any policy statement from SANZAR saying they will name and shame refs - what is this all about? When did it kick in if it did kick in? Good though that ou Bonkers got hauled over the coals but consistency is they key. Fancy ou windpomp defending the indefensible like this. The mind boggles!!!!!!!!!   Redsman watch ou BL be as good as gold!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 May 2012, 17:17
#2
04 May 2012, 17:17#2

I found this which I can see must be pretty unique. When before has dear lyndon or someone in his position spoken out like this before?

Sydney - The Super Rugby tournament's head of referring has acknowledged that an officiating blunder was to blame for the Brumbies' 36-34 loss to the Bulls on Saturday. (BL's numerous blunders of course had no effect on the result of the Wc match with OZ)

SANZAR game manager Lyndon Bray said on Thursday the Bulls' second try of the match was awarded in error, with both South African referee Marius Jonker and assistant referees Lourens van der Merwe and Stefan Breytenbach missing a clear knock-on from Bulls player Morne Steyn. (Fully agree)

CJ Stander ran on to score after everyone else - including his Bulls team-mates - stopped and waited for the referee to call the infraction.

Bray was quoted as saying Stander's try was "just a stone-cold mistake," adding Jonker has to put his hand up and say "we got it completely wrong."

 

Wonderful stuff now how about BL Lyndon. Lets be consistent.
 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 May 2012, 17:27
#3
04 May 2012, 17:27#3

Link?

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 May 2012, 17:47
#5
04 May 2012, 17:47#5

That link is not the link to the article that you have quoted in your OP.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 May 2012, 18:01
#6
04 May 2012, 18:01#6

Windpomp I would hate you to have miss the comments below the article. Hence I have placed a few of them here.

It seems to me all the bulle's goings on are catching up with them  - remember I spoke about the Pretoria pong. Well go check this out!! I do hope the other bulle oaks with their heads in the sand, you know to whom I refer, get to read this stuff. They need to wake up to reality!

Referees are killing the game So in other words, the bulls didn't deserve to win and they shouldn't be so high on the log... mmmmmmm, but ag wat, dit was mos net n fout!!!   What? Did you hear that Jake White, you've been robbed of a "certain" victory!? Just hang on, let me see if I can get it overturned for you... Sorry, answer is no.   Admitting it doesnt change the score. Bryce Lawless Lawrence also admitted it. Still South Africa tried to slaughter him   @Jean you clearly never played a game of rugby in your life, if the bulls try wasn't awarded, the game would've been closer, and the bulls wouldn't have gone to sleep like they did when they were leading by 16 or so point in the last 10mintes (Hahahahahhaahhaha very funny)

"the Brumbies was never in that game" - 5 tries to 2. Nope, the Brumbies was never in that game ( And as a 'Die-hard' Bulls supporter........ Sadly, I have to agree but unfortunately mistakes have been made in the past and will continue happening..Sad part of the game!! (the crocodile tears fall like rain)   He has'nt admitted to anything yet,there is a trend when it comes to local officials and loftus.There has allways been a kiwi at the helm of the refs in this comp.After the saders game Pro whatever is nowhere to be seen and Marius will move down the pecking order for sure.The two hometown refs decisions will come back to bite the bulls on tour,Bray is definately alluding to that.   Isn't this the guy who voted Bryce Lawrence NZ ref of the year??????? (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)   Strange how no-one came forward during the World Cup to say what a cr@p ref Bryce Lawrence were! Not even SARU had any thing to say. But now that a South African ref made a "dubious" decision, all of a sudden we have bad referees! I bet you that SARU as always will say nothing to protect us and as always leave us to the DOGS! Now that our teams are playing better rugby against overseas teams we are a threat, and we are treated as such! Time to stand up SARU and protect our teams and our referees instead of your own interests! Well said Dok!!!   This is what i spoke about yesterday the bulls and their marius and co.   THIS IS EXACTLY LIKE THE TIME THE BULLS WERE GIVEN HABANNA'S TRY WHEN HE PICKED THE BALL UP AFTER A BULL'S KNOCK ON. THAT COST THE SHARKS THE SUPER14. AND, BY THE WAY, TIME WAS ALREADY UP SO HAD THE BULLS - CORRECTLY - NOT BEEN AWARDED THE TRY THEY WOULD HAVE NO TIME TO MAKE AMENDS. THE NEXT DAY STEVE WALSH SAID, AFTER HE'D WATCHED A REPLAY OF THE MATCH, "I MADE A MISTAKE" SO THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES. SHARKS 1 AND BULLS 2 And what did Lyndon Bray have to say about the knockon behind the Brumbies goal line that was not blown up either - and which resulted in their last try instead of a Bulls 5m scrum ? nou wil ek hoor hoe die bulls supporters nou b!tch... Hahahahahaha!!! die keer is dit die aussies wat bitch ou vriend. ons het die wen hulle gaan dit nie weg vat nie.   And? How about the ref that cost us the World Cup?   We are discussing the sixteenth bull that was on the field against the Brumbies here Wessel if you can read   watchman its 18 bull players not 16 did you forget about the lines men (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA)   I didn't realise Danie Roussouw was a ref.    What a #$%& joke! The double standards is just "#$%&? SA team get screwed all the time and no says anything.   The great rugby Ego-officiating stupidity continues.

Does anyone still watch rugby? Who wants to watch a sport where the officials are center stage, and almost half the results are unreliable, slanted by officiating errors. Yes, I do because what you say is rubbish.   fred if you don't watch rugby why do u take the time to read the article and even comment on it as well. bulls almost always win with help from refs   That's true ...   So its all coming out at last. Folk have not been fooled by the bulle. Mend the error of your ways is my advice.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 May 2012, 18:05
#7
04 May 2012, 18:05#7

I was referring to the article that you quoted in the opening post, but nevermind. You would not understand in any case.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 May 2012, 18:09
#8
04 May 2012, 18:09#8

I copied that link from the page. Go to Sports24.co.za and look  under Super 15 and you should find it.

Seems windpomp you live in a dream world. I have been telling you all this for sometime. Time to wise up?

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 May 2012, 18:16
#9
04 May 2012, 18:16#9

Windpomp in case you are still not getting it here are a few more:

 

Refs should be held accountable for their mistakes. I'm not just talking about this particular game, I'm talking in general. These refs think they can dictate a games as they see fit without consequence. When a rugby player makes a mistake, tackles high or tip tackle or whatever he gets banned. So refs must also get banned. Yes we all are human but there is a difference between missing something and completely ignoring it or ignoring a whole rule like the Bryce Lawrence incident. BTW does anyone know how refs are rated? What is the criteria? The management of referees are killing the game refer back to nutral referees and 90% of the errors will be resolved as there is too much presure on the home ref blowinh a home team yes they are neutral but too much pressure sometimes cost the home teams.   Just not good enough! He's been getting it wrong for a long time. I'm no Brumbies fan but it was blatant cheating and the fact that all 3 got it wrong makes me wonder. It is also wrong to say it cost the Brumbies a win. We do not know that.   Marius Jonker was one sided as he always is where the Bulls are concerned.   Quite so - as I have often noted.    
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 May 2012, 18:32
#10
04 May 2012, 18:32#10

Ducking and diving. Just give me the correct link to the article that you quoted in your opening post. It can not be too difficult, can it?

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 May 2012, 19:13
#12
04 May 2012, 19:13#12

As I expected. Not a researched article by a journo then. Just an opinion by a blogger, writing under a pseudonym, with a load of remarks from everybody who wants to chip in. Is that the reason why you were so reluctant to respond with an accurate link?

 

He has missed a few points. The most important being the assumption of a "SA/SARU against SANZAR situation", whic is bulldust to begin with. SA/SARU is a partner in SANZAR with a 1/3 share in the damn thing.

 

In addition, the only ones who are 100% convinced that it was a knock-on are Lyndon Brey and everybody else who are relishing the story that "The ref cost the Brumbies the game, in favour of the Bulls",

 

You can find a discussion of the incident, complete with video footage, here: www.sareferees.com/laws/

 

Go read it and forget for one moment your ridiculous and childish conspiracy theories.

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
05 May 2012, 00:20
#13
05 May 2012, 00:20#13

Bean Brain you muppet, as you know Brycy is a big Chiefs fan so i will probably be awarding the Reds the game tonight. As you know i have the power to move mountains and goal posts. Not that the Chiefs need any help from me as they are the complete package as your Bumbling Bulls will discover when we hammer them at Waikato stadium in a few weeks , not to mention those woeful Lions that are about to meet their demise and be well and truly roasted at Puke stadium tonight. Good excuse you have though Bean Brain in your own mind, for being such losers.

And Bean Brain you need to stop using the word mighty in front of the not so mighty stormers as there is only one team deserving of that title you muppet and that is the Mighty Chiefs.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 May 2012, 12:46
#14
06 May 2012, 12:46#14

I posted an article on 274. You asked for the link on 275. Obviously I thought, like any sane person, you wanted the link to my 274 post. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha ou windpomp crashes.

Everyone except a few daft bulle supporters know that Morne knocked the ball forward. You a making a right hoot of yourself AGAIN!! So silly to try and argue otherwise.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 May 2012, 12:56
#15
06 May 2012, 12:56#15

brycy a woeful lions side marched through the wimpy chiefs pack to drive over the line and score tries. Now how bad was that. Chiefs simply couldn't hold them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will have to hope that the Stormers cannot a full strength pack. If we do we we simply gooble the wimpy chiefs up! Ditto the crusties who looked inferior to the reds who we beat with a depleted pack.

No I only hope we can get a full Stormers pack on the field. The MIGHTY STORMERS will then shred your boys. Men against boys stuff.

— END OF THREAD —

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