New Zealand Rugby - Worthy of Respect?

It seems many here are in desperate need of some education on the current All Black side, so here it is.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsP3Y1dDcb0
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVuomr8zebg
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_e76zdfVcc
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXCQnL421WM&feature=related

I could reference so many other games where New Zealand were allowed to play outside of the laws to win. It happens in virtually every game. The entire 2010 season was a shambles in particular. In short, New Zealand do not deserve respect and nor are they the best side in the world. The World Cup was merely the cherry on the cake of New Zealand's sham reputation. Back in the 90s, they deserved respect, and were a great side. The team of the 2000s is nothing more than a sick joke protected by the IRB.
 

10- Dan Carter- the best Flyhalf in the world at the moment, one of the best ever maybe.

12- Sonny Bill Williams- The best inside center in the world at the moment. Pity he is going to league as he is just getting better and better.

The inside backs of New Zealand are excellant. This is the main area of advantage over us. The Organised backline play is better than what the Boks can produce at present.

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Although I do agree with you that the All Blacks know how to push the laws at the breakdown more than any other team in world rugby. However this is allot down to the poor standard of IRB referees. We need to see a consistent interpretation applied by all referees globally, in every game.

Paddy Obrien was useless. I have commented on another post that a South African should be in charge of the global referee comittee. One consistent standard needs to be applied. If a referree cant apply this single standard they should be disposed off. It confuses players and coaches when different interpretations are applied, and frustrates fans. The WorldCup quarter final in 2011 when the boks lost to Australia being a prime example. When the New Zealand lost to France in the 2007 World cup was probably even more contentious. Graham Henry even questioned if their may have been match fixing. His point is- how can one team get 12 or so penalties, and the other(NZ) who was dominating possesion get none? Valid question, highly unlikely that a team dominatiing possesion would give away 12 penalties, but the opposing team would give away none.

If the ruck play could be sorted out, so that their is one single world standard applied- I think the game of rugby would flourish. At the moment it is somewhat of a lottery. Richie Mccaw understands the rules and interpretations of rugby more than the referees- that is why they are so intimidated by him- and he gets away with murder at the breakdown. 

I have seen games when a referee has made an interpretation that is not perfect, and Mccaw corrects him- only for the referree to accept the judgement,.

This is very simple, New Zealand are sloppy and are protected by the IRB. It is a disgrace that should not be tolerated. It's reached a point where NZ expect preferencial treatement. Recall the Italian destroying new Zealand's scrum in 2010? The ref was forced to make a public apology for penalizing NZ!!!

The Cat

The issue raised by you does not really relate to the New Zealand team - but to the standard of refereeing.   The team plays the referee - if he is sub-standard and many are they get away with murder.   The one thing is that I do not like it if a captain tries to intimidate referees - something McCaw is always trying to do.

I would not call it no respect for the team - I call it refereeing incompetence.   I think the referees sometimes do give penalties against the All Blacks - but cannot recall any case where constant transgressions of a similar kind during specific games lead to a yellow card for an All Black player.    Again a case of refereeing incompetence.

Reference is made to Bryce Lawrence - but he was so incompetent that he was kicked off the panel of international referees - should not have been on it in the first instance, but New Zealand made him referee of the year.   That set a very bad example for referees.

Where there is indeed a problem is that the New Zealand players are reportedly advised by their coaching staff how to play so as to ensure dominance without too much regard to the laws     That is a dangerous principle and referees should be aware of the problem.   They often do nothing about it.

Rather blame the referees - not the team involved.   Any team would play the referee - if they don't they are sub-standard.   And the All Blacks does not fall in that category.

The video about the All Black penalty in the WC was interesting though.   From that evidence it was clear the ball was not over.   Question is - who were the line judges that indicated that the klick was successful?   Is that not a case - where the call should have been checked by the TV refereee?   Just a question.

By the way - I have identified a career possibility for McCaw after he stops playing  progessional rugby.   He should be appointed as a referee.   He more than anyone else knows what laws are constantly broken and what players are up to.  Problem is that him refereeing a New Zealand team would be a shambles - but if New Zealand is not involved - he would know all the tricks of the trade.   Otherwise politician - remember the ancient saying : :It is more honourable to be a prosititute, then a politician".

Requiescat, Requiescat, Requiescat, you're totally missing the point! We don't dis the Boks across the board as much as you dis our Team! Sure we pick on certain of your players for dirty play you will never see us carry on and on and on and on and on and on like Beeno for cheating! Case in point, in the 2009 Tri-Nations Series, Fourie picks up the ball in a ruck on the NZ side in an offside position when the ball when was still in the ruck and scores a try you never hear us complaining do you?

The Boks are a very physical side and we have the uttermost respect for them!

The referee is one thing entirely, but the matter here is that of New Zealand. Do they play even half-way near to the rules? No. Then how can they be lauded? Example, lets say we have two boxers, one has both hands tied behind his back, has one eye covered and a ball and chain attacked to one leg. If he loses, will you hail the victor as truly great? That is exactly what happens in rugby. They cheat at scrums, rucks, mauls, lineouts, during kick chases, and they constantly use players to illegaly interfer with defenders from both sides of the offside line. What chance is a team supposed to have of playing against such odds? This illegal tactics - I say tactics, because they are deeply tied into how New Zealand play - cover almost every aspect of the game. I recall once in 2005 against New Zealand, the Bok were offside twice, TWICE, and got away with it. There were several dozen articles I read on how this was unacceptibl and how the both sides need to play a fair game. Cheating Boks was the mantra for quite some time after that. But New Zealand flop all over the breakdown - literally from EVERY angle - and all the above and we are supposed to call them "street smart", "innovative". What is smart and innovative about having a ref turn a blind eye? You could see the fear in the Saffer ref in the WC final. He hesitantly avoided looking at NZ on several occasions. Are there threats behind the scenes? We already know that Aussie and Kiwi refs have been discussing how to ref the Boks out of games. What else? Rugby is in a very dark place right now. When you see one nation so deeply protected, both on and off the field, something is very wrong to say the least. You choose to deflect this onto the refs, I choose to call New Zealand out on their disgraceful and sloppy play that is nothing whatsoever to be admired.

your points would have been valid Requiescat if you were able to beat the Wallabies or the Argies in a "fair" game - otherwise suck it up princess!

MEOW....Sounds like someone needs reminding how naturally gifted footballers the Kiwis are... currently holding World Champions status in Rugby Union, World Champions status in the Sevens, and World Champions in Rugby League.

Yeah thats right rugby league - It's where SBW got all those offloads from it's called transferrable skills.

Must have been a real fluke topping all the codes like that or maybe some magnificent conspiracy LMAO.

That said, i still give SA a glimmer of hope of winning if Nonu has another shocker on Saturday.- he'd be our archilles heel if there was one. I'm picking Mighty Chiefs star Aaron Cruden to be the one to watch though now he's warmed up ....

To any NZ posters reading ApolloRetardCats pitiful drivel, I wuld like to apologize on behalf of all real Bok rugby fans for the pathetic sore losr rubbsh posted by crybabys like bean Brain & ApolloRetardCat.

Rest assured, the All Blacks command respect from all real Springbok rugby supporters. Its just that we allso have a few limp wristed poofs who like to pretend they Bok supporters but dont understand concepts like honour and being a man. The likes of ApolloRetradCat and Bean Brain prefer to behave like tearful little girls.

Sorry!

Excellent post Card but dont expect the kiwi bird brains to own up and admit to their cheating habit.  Its something deeply ingrained in the DNA and like a stain that can never be washed out. All you will get is obfuscation and bluster.

I had been suggesting prior to the world cup that they were overdoing their cheating and isure enough at the world Cup they blew their cover once and for all in a spectacular manner. They had planned well ahead and got in Paddy as the supremo re the refs and had BL as a card up their sleeve. Both got the boot after the world cup as we all know but it was mission accomplished.

However as I have pointed out Craig Joubert blew it also. Not anything like on the scale of BL who was appalling but bad enough to deny France a comfortable win against a very mediocre ab side. World champs? No world chumps!!! Moz posted a You Tube clip where some down under commentarors noted all the blunders Craig made that denied France a victory. The French players were outraged and rightly so.

So no there is very little to respect in nz rugby until they clean their act up.

Mike makes a classical mistake. Mike please grasp the fact tht you cant play to a bent ref. Your opponents do something illegal and they get away with things. You do it and its a penalty. The bent ref knows the ri=ule sthat is no tthe problem.

In the match against Oz, Dan Retief counted 5 occassions when in the Oz 22 there was hands in ruck in front of the refs eyes without Oz being pinged. (Some oaks blame it on Brussouw being injured. Well let me tell them brussouw cant compete against ths isort of thing!!!!!!!!!) We try that and we are blown up immediately. Only if a ref is fair to both sides can one talk of playing to his interpretations.

I mean who would ever call John Smit a cheat but ou ritchie is commonly called mccheat. Oh the deep deep shame of it all but if you are a mong it really is like water of a kiwi birds back. Bwahahahaahahhahaha How thankful Smit was when he retired and said at least he would never have to play under a ref like BL again. Shame on nz - a mountain of shame.

Something is way out. Bob Dwyer commented a sfollows:

A recent article on the informative Green & Gold Rugby website gives a tally of the penalties and yellow cards awarded in the Tri Nations tournament to date. They have calculated the “penalties-per-yellow card” suffered by each team with the following results [click on graph to the right.

I cant post the graph for some rason but it reads:

Abs 43 penalties - 1 yellow

Oz 7 penalties - 1 yellow

Boks 6 penalties - 1 yellow.

Not only are nz refs often bent but to me it appears Oz and Sa refs favour them. What other conclusion is possible.

OZ (the get the jarpies mentality) and SA (Nz are our great rugby pals) need to wake up and blow these guys up and no more thinking we are pals with nz rugby.

So to conclude abs are no tworthy of respect and OZ and Sa need to deal with the amatter. Hopefully the Argies will not be suckeredinto this sort of thing as well.

Come on nz its time to clean up your act. You have been found out - the game is over.  I reckon you could still possibly make the top five if you play honest so dont think if you stop cheating you will be as pap as your cricket team!

Beeno - giving some good advice and encouragement to our kiwi friends. Hahahahahhahahhahahahaha - nz will never live this down.

Its so unfair!

Sniff!

jallopy you remind me a a jelly baby called rooinek.  He didn't mind a SA player being dropped on his head in a spear takcle and the bent ref taking no action. I think like you he was terrified of being called a squealer. He was a tearful soul who  had many a childish tantum and finally had  a gigantic tantrum and fwent off in a tearful huff. A very funny guy at times who could be entertaining but spineless when it came to cheating refs. He would not thave uttered  a beep re BL - that was rooinek .  Now we have the jallopy sucking up to the kiwi bird brains as hard as he can. How like ou rooinek!

Moz gave rooinek many a solid snotklap when he stepped out of line which lead to squeals and bleatings and stamping of foot tantrums! Hahahahahhahahahaha it was hilarious really.  Wonder if the oak will ever recover and come back to post on a rugby board. I think he has been scarred for life and is till having appointments with his hard working analyst!!!  RIP rooinek great pity about that glass jaw.

Tx for the histry lesson! No rly it was facinating!! Talking of reminding, u remind me of a.........crybaby!

LMAO!!

Jallopy you are right!! It is unfair and hence the nz ref of the year was booted off the IRB elite refs panel and paddy o'brien also got the boot. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha crash goes the jallopy - almost ready for the scrap heap!

Hope ou jallopy is getting the picture. Rather than sucking up to the abs jallopy take  a leaf out of John Smits book and express rightful disgust at BL and also of paddy and the NZRU.

All self respecting Bok fans know the story and hence the widespread outrage after the last world cup, The Boks returned to a great welcome as the SA public knew they had been robbed blind and the fault was not with the team in this instance.

A man of the enormous stature of Prof Tim Noakes slammed the ref and suggested an enquiry should be held. Quite evidently behind the scenes an enquiry was held leading to paddy and BL getting the boot. The brazen nz cheats then made BL their ref of the year. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha it was then game over.

So go and suck up as much as you want jallopy but SA Fans know the story. You and ou rooinek make  a pair!

As for genuine Bok supporters we will never ever tolerate nz cheating and will tell them where ot get off. Our guys like any rugby team deserve a fair deal.  Cheats must be exposed for the good of the game.

Jallopy I trust you are not a kiwi?

Clean up your act nz is the call!

End of story.

Beeno, 26-19  to the Wallabies in a "fair" game! :-))

Some comments by Bob Dwyer:

It is here that I, and many others, question their tactics. Black jerseyed tacklers finish on the ground, on the wrong side of the ball, so often, that I can’t believe that it’s by accident (well of course not Bob!). This prevents their opponents from arriving quickly to support their team-mate and allowing other All Black support players to attack opposition ball on the ground. Further, opposition scrum-halves are having difficulty getting in close to clear the ball and are forced to “lift” the ball for their pass to clear Black bodies. This slows down the clearing pass and gives valuable time to the defence. And, it’s illegal!

On New Zealand ball at the tackle. Whilst they, generally, arrive “through the gate” on opposition ball, they enter from outrageously off-side positions on their own ball – sometimes they are clearing out opponents from positions a metre or two BEYOND the ruck/maul. This has the beneficial effect of limiting opposition hands to the tackle ball and allowing their “early, long place” ball for instant recycle to their excellent support players. If any one doubts this, they should Google “All Blacks at the Breakdown” and view an excellently compiled video from the Wellington test v the Springboks. It is even on the increase. All players play their part, and while McCaw, Franks and Smith have been serial offenders, Kieran Read has recently perfected his technique also. It is dramatically effective and frequently brings tries – and it’s illegal!

The troubl is we have test union with an  intentionl plan to do whatever they can get away with.

Take the match of the Stormer against the Crusaders. The Stormers despit loosing both locks early on in the match and having other players out with injury still had the better ofthe game and outscored the crusties trywise. nevcertheless we lost the game. We lost because we were blow out o fthe game for ossides.. However by "chance" theTV replays were not played apart from oneinstance where the Stormers wer found o be fractionally offside. No ths agin indicates an overall plan. Not before nor since were the Stormers ever pinged for offsides like happedend that day.

Totally unacceptable.

The only nz guy who seems to have some real sense of fairness about him is Justin Marshall.  He is more of the old school nz rugby man we used to respect.  Their desire for a wc win drove nz way way over the top. But the improtant part is that these abs deliberately plan to cheat.  What is not on at all is that they get away with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone respecting this lot  is dafter than a hatter.

hakwa I have to say the ref was NOT bad and could not beblamed much apart from missing two head high tackles that preventedd a likely try which would have drawn the game of course. The effect a yellow would have had is also uncertain.

What you fail to realise is that this is NOT the same side that played oz in the wc. As I told you, us loosing after the wc to oz doesnt mean oz were the better side at the wc.  We  were at least 20 points better on that day.

So hakwa please get real this is not your  Katie fantasy we are discussing!

 Hakwa, u go on about losing to the wallabies in Aus. JP Pietersen, Jacque Fourie, Fourie Du Preez, Bjorn Basson, Ryan Kankowski, Pierre Spies, Juan Smith, Heinrich Brussouw, Schalk Burger, Bakkies Botha, Bismarck Du Plessis and Coenie Oosthuizen all out injured. Those are our front line players with 100's of caps between them. Let me ask you something, with that many injuries, would NZL have beaten Argentina in Wellington, nevermind Mendoza..

Picture Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Aaron Smith, Julian Savea, Kieran Reid, Liam Messam, Richie McCaw, Victor Vito, Sam Whitelock, Keven Mealamu and Tony Woodcock all injured at once. Doesnt sound promising does it. Thats what we are facing at the moment. No matter who people think is better, the boks have lost too much experience at once.

Boks have lost 7 of the last 8 tests vs the Wallbies and 4 of the last 5 tests against the ABs.

If u think thats all cos of injurys or cheating refs then yr as bad as Bean brain! Other countrys allso have injurys & bad ref calls. Not just SA!

 Im not talking about the Boks. Im talking about the AB's now with as many injuries as us...Forget the past. quarter finals of WC against Aussies should never have been a loss to SA..that was cheating to the highest degree and thats why action was taken against the ref

Boklogic,

I think the more worrying question is why does SA have so many players out because of injury? Is it bad conditioning programmes, fitness levels, player welfare?

One things for sure it appears that year in year out SA seem to suffer the most out of the 3 power nations and that is a concern particuarly that many appear to be major injuries and not just week to week niggles.

Oh and to answer your question - pretty simple actually absolutely not the AB's will suffer as we are suffering now if their squad was depleted likje ours is at this time. However in consideration I think we are doing great with the team we have at this time with so many out!

However as for the trollop that Beentwat and Reqcat go on about....lol guys its great comedy and though I agree that the AB's play to the letter of the law.........its pretty simple they are just better at doin it then everyone else and thats why they are the best. So when are we goingto stop moaning and being crybabies and start doingsomething about it. I tell you when...Its when we grow some frekin balls instead of squeezing our walnuts or is peanuts?

@Beentwat as I have said about you manytimes you are so predictable that your laughable.......Now you have a partner in crime Reqcat a.k.a. Appollo your dribble has only multiplied.........Ifthey AB's were such the cheats that you make them out  to be then how come it took them 24 years to win a second RWC?

Wallabes beat us in 7 out or 8 games. Doesnt sound like they need a refs help. We desrve 2 lose 2 these teams as long as we pick weak coaches like PDV and HM!

Do u (and allso Bean btrain and ApolloRetradCat) think the Bok RWC win in 2007 shldnt count cuz Wayne Barnes and Jon Kaplan missed a clear fwd pass by France in the QF against NZ? No? Wahts the diff?

Well said radtad1!!

+1

I will repeat what I said earlier, the Boks are a physical side and we respect them. We have never underestimated the Boks no matter who is playing and we are not about to start!

 Jalapeno, the forward pass against NZL was unfortunate for them. They were very unlucky. U can not compare that isolated incident with a game full of bad calls against the boks to the extent where the ref in question had been relieved of his duties...Anyway, water under the bridge and he must live with himself for that...

"To any NZ posters reading ApolloRetardCats pitiful drivel, I wuld like to apologize on behalf of all real Bok rugby fans for the pathetic sore losr rubbsh posted by crybabys like bean Brain & ApolloRetardCat."

You are probably the stupidest prick in existence today. Scientists are baffled by the fact that you are able to breath, eat, sleep, talk, as others that share your Iq are called gravel, dirt and rocks...

The All Black have always been one of the strongest teams in world rugby and will remain in that position for some time to come. They are one of the teams I respect the most and their style of play is merely classical rugby, the way it should be played...

So Galafpenis, tell us how  you are able to display human-like behaviour without a registerable IQ.... That could be interesting.... NOT!!!

Well said Bok logic you could also add how any test side would have fared under a complete oaf like ou pdv.  I mean the guy was mental and a comedian when he was not even trying!

Meyer has to pick up the pieces and given the number of players missing he has a huge task. The losses against Oz did not start with Meyer. No test country has ever in the history of the game had a nutter like ou pdv at the helm.  Until we get totally professional and cut out the nonsenses like this we will batlle to realise potential.  Unfortunately rubg has these things forced on them for racial and politcal motives.

Meyer was not a quota selection his appointment was based on achievement todate and the clowns writing him off will have redfaces in due course. Enjoy you moment in the sun.

Dont even try to compare a missed forward pass with BL efforts. That would be absurd.  The abs were bad that day and didnt even look the better side. They abandoned their running game and kicked away their possession. The ab forwards were flat.

Face it the abs feeze at WCs and should never have won the last one.  A dismal record - one merit achieved wc in all these many years. Bwahahahahahahaha

So again well said Card  these things needed to be said inconvenient as the truth might be to some.

Clean up your act nz.

End of story.

IMHO Yes!!

NZ have two advantages over us. They are quicker to adapt to the refs calls, and they don't have our reputation for foul play. Under Jake White we corrected this, and by the 2007 RWC final, we were hardly penalized. Talk like lawyers and act like thieves is the way. We do the opposite....we talk like thugs and act like fools.

NZ do exactly what smart players should and they probably get the marginal call. But to suggest this is what underpins their entire record is off base.

hahahahha the marginal calls. BL as very marginal! Hahahahahaha  I wish som erefs favouredu slike ou BL did Oz.  Life would be a breeze.

Sorry Moz but lets call a spade a spade. The abs are the benchmark in underhand tactics.  It doesnt underpin their entire record but enhances it considerably. As I suggested they could still be a good side without cheating but not necessarly the best.

I am surprised someone like Lady MO(NH) appreciates such behaviour!!!  Shocked I am. What is the world coming to!

Boklogic BL made bad calls against the Wallabies & the Bokke that day and plz note that both Wayne barnes and Jonathan Kaplan were also dropped from the IRB elite panel just as BL was. Ne1 sugesting that the ABs shld not be respected cuz of BLs refereeing in 1 match is a moron, plane and simple!

Apollo 13, I wasnt asking what u think about anythng, i was apologizing to NZ visitors 4 your stupidity (whether u post as Apollo or as Retardcat). I dont rly care what u think. Ok?

Bwahahahaha Kaplan is old and so is Barnes- retirement jallopy! They were not booted off like ou BL.  The idea that the mistakes cut both ways is ludicrous.

Where in nz do you live jallopy? Not another chiefs fan?

Retirement? Wow u r thick! Wayne Barnes is 33. Do u know anything at all about rugby Bean Brain?

Ah, Respect. To much of it, and to little of it can be a dangerous thing. Cat, You cannot respect the AB's all you want,  but if the Boks players don't, it will be a 50 pointer.

Moz, and Radtad have it spot on. Kiwi players push the limits, their gamesmanship is the best, and they don't have a bad rep. Add that to how bloody talented they are, and you have them miles ahead in the world rankings.

"Talk like lawyers and act like thieves is the way. We do the opposite....we talk like thugs and act like fools."

That is spot on. I've never seen a player in any sport have such an influence on a ref then Mccaw.

true the Ab bend the rules but as many nz coaches will tell you the refs are part of the game so if you get away with it by all means go for it

Like the remarks about talking like a lawyer moz...spot on that should be the mindset. stop whinging about it and do something about it

being street smart is not a sin its a skill

being rugby intelligent is something we lack that is why we dont play the game to the fullist in terms of the laws

the ab also pulls players pants and shirts come ruck time to suck them into the ruck and take them out of the game many a time but i say its just smart play. if you get pinned for it shame on you. if you get away with it shame on them