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FORUM / RUGBY /  New Zealand Schools Vs South Africa schools international caps

New Zealand Schools Vs South Africa schools international caps

Started by sharkbok10 REPLIES256 VIEWS· 21 Oct 2014, 22:45
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
21 Oct 2014, 22:45
#1
21 Oct 2014, 22:45#1

I am not sure what it is like in New Zealand, do such a small percentage of schools also produce most of the test level players ?


In South Africa less than 10 schools produce most of the Boks. 

I do not have the stats to hand, but when ever I see a new sensation like Pollard they allways seem to be from the known schools like Paarl, Grey school, Grey College etc, etc.


Very few Springboks are originally from Durban which often has the most purchased player depth of all of the Unions. 

Natal does not really have a school that is a major production factory for the Boks. 

The best are probably the 2 richest schools like Hilton and Michael College, it has been such a long time since I was in Durban let alone school. 


Their is talk about quotas and transformation, but SARU could do better starting at school level to identify why so few schools produce all the best rugby players.

Having the richest schools produce many of the best players cant be sitting well with the national sporting bodies


The richest schools will often produce the best sports people but in South Africa it seems very extreme in rugby. The coaching is an obvious factor, as it is clear that backline coaching skills in South Africa is limited.




CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2014, 23:44
#2
21 Oct 2014, 23:44#2
 Sharkbok
You do not really understand what is going on in the schools in SA nowadays.   Yes there are schools producing most rugby players coming through to CC, Super 15 and even Springbok teams - but how do these schools operate.
The top 20 schools in SA insofar as Rugby is conerned - has sponsorships from businesses in their local areas.  I am talking big money here.  They used the funds to scour the country to find youngsters showing potential and then pay their school fees, accommodation, etc.  It could happen that a kid from Upingtomn ends up in Grey College, etc.  It is a real cut throat business and there has been cases where children were virtually abducted from schhools they attend - that is after th aprents were encouraged to "buy" into the change.
The sponsorships of bussiness also provide for the appointment of coaches -  special nutrition programmes and gyn facilities at schools.   I went to the Outeniqua school in George and their sponsorship board had about 20 different company names on it.   That is just an example. 
Beside that the various Unions do their part as well.   As soon as they find a player with potential - they award a bursary to the player.   They then get paid for their accommodation, clothing, school fees and even gets near to R2000 pocket money a month.
Although most of the "rugby schools" are integrated th problem is that it is rare when players of coolour get into the said schools with ease - the feeding system is not good enough.
By the time they get to the end of their school careers they sign up with the Unions - normally the ones who provided the bursaries.   They then go into the rugby franchise academies .
You may think  that school rugby is an amateur game - but you will be amazed to see how commercialized they have become.   The whole system at top schools go hand in hand in sponsporships running into millions.  

.      
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
21 Oct 2014, 23:53
#3
21 Oct 2014, 23:53#3

 ...Wesley College is a bit of a rugby factory in South Auckland...not necessarily for the rich as it's mainly for disadvantaged Maori and Pacific Island students ...


...situated in the Counties Manukau province it's feeding the Chiefs and the Blues franchises... has produced the likes of ABs Jonah Lomu, Frank Halai, Stephen Donald, Casey Laulala ,Charles Piutau, Doug Rollerson, Augustine Pulu, Sitiveni Sivivatu ...Kepu for Oz and lots of other Fijian, Samoan and Tongan internationals...


St Kentigerns College is another top rugby school that has been producing a few ABs in Auckland


Auckland Grammar has had quite a few ABs and Graham Henry school coach.


Kelston Boys High another Auckland school that pumps out the internationals for NZ Samoa, Tonga in rugby and league...


That's just Auckland but plenty High Schools throughout NZ that are as rugby oriented...


...lots of poaching of players goes on between schools and makes you wonder whether the priority is actually education or bragging rights for winning the Secondary Schools Competition and the Moascar Cup... 




CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2014, 00:48
#4
22 Oct 2014, 00:48#4
 brycy
You have a point - education is in many cases not really the objective - itis having top sportsmen at schools that counts a lot.   It is not only confined to rugby - it is also the case with cricket and other sporting codes.    
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
22 Oct 2014, 01:08
#5
22 Oct 2014, 01:08#5
 "Special nutrition programmes" aye Mickie ala Paul Treu
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2014, 01:35
#6
22 Oct 2014, 01:35#6
At least one school has been caught out giving a banned substance to a player - but what I think happens here is more diet-related and also includes growth hormones - which is not banned.   However, the school pupils are being tested for banned substances regulalry and a problem has been found in some cases - but those were not necessarily at the so-called-rugby schools - but mostly more genera and not necessarily sports related - more like having the looks and body to attarct the girls.   There has been a lot of newspaper reports ad disquiet about usage of banned substances in schools in SA - but I think the top school sport players are clear - otherwie they would have been tested and banned from sport participation on school level.  
True has nothing to do wih SA Rugby anymore - Perhaps you may know that Kenya is a separte country - not a probince of SA.      .    
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
22 Oct 2014, 14:37
#7
22 Oct 2014, 14:37#7
 The Blitz Boks won the Commonwealth Games 7s recently - this incident does bring up that question that nonone wants to ask,"what type of foundation and special nutrition program did Treu lay down as previous coach of the Blitz Boks did his successors continue - oh oh.
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
22 Oct 2014, 16:25
#8
22 Oct 2014, 16:25#8
 Good question hakwa.
From the physical looks of most rugby players from all countries I think they are all on the same "SPECIAL NUTRITION"
It appears the players are following the America sportsman programs with respect to nutrition.
Pity but that's what happens when sport goes out the window and money rules.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2014, 17:32
#9
22 Oct 2014, 17:32#9
 hakwa
I stiill wonder why True left the Blitzbokke so suddenly?
One thingneeds to eb clarified - growth and size dependents on growth hormones (strictly legal) that is included in diets of children - but development of adult muscle strucutre is often not the result of massive gym work - but in the case of some sportsmen using prohibited drugs.
What are the effect of either on the longer term for both.   Not sure about the growth hormone issue - that stops relatively early in life and may not have long term effects.
However illegal drugs has a massive impact.   As an example one can refer to American wrestlers where they often enough die inexpplicably in their thirties.   Steroids have a massive impact on kidneys  for instance and heavy steroid usesrs are bound to suffer from kidney problems.
The problem is that sport - whether we like it or not - is influenced by big money.   Imn the case of SA Rugby we know near to zero about the financial aspect of contracts - but in the case of SA Cricket players it came out recently that the top players earn between R10 and R15 million rand per year - that is whithout sponsoerrship and advertising revenue.   That is plenty of lolly in anyones money.
However, in soccer it is known what top players earn - recently the Real Madrid  indicated that the sellibng price for Cristiano Ronaldo is 1 Billion Euros.   Is any sportsman that valuable?
S o where to now - I guess weekly checks should keep most sportsmen in check - but that does not always work.  The Sydney Olympics was a drug fest.  The athletes were checked but it was only in 2001 when a California laboratory was discovered that was producing undetectable drugs which could not be found by the 2000 testing methods.
How many such laboratories is stillin existence?  Nobody knows.   
And as for cycling?  What a farce.   
  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2014, 17:32
#10
22 Oct 2014, 17:32#10
 hakwa
I stiill wonder why True left the Blitzbokke so suddenly?
One thingneeds to eb clarified - growth and size dependents on growth hormones (strictly legal) that is included in diets of children - but development of adult muscle strucutre is often not the result of massive gym work - but in the case of some sportsmen using prohibited drugs.
What are the effect of either on the longer term for both.   Not sure about the growth hormone issue - that stops relatively early in life and may not have long term effects.
However illegal drugs has a massive impact.   As an example one can refer to American wrestlers where they often enough die inexpplicably in their thirties.   Steroids have a massive impact on kidneys  for instance and heavy steroid usesrs are bound to suffer from kidney problems.
The problem is that sport - whether we like it or not - is influenced by big money.   Imn the case of SA Rugby we know near to zero about the financial aspect of contracts - but in the case of SA Cricket players it came out recently that the top players earn between R10 and R15 million rand per year - that is whithout sponsoerrship and advertising revenue.   That is plenty of lolly in anyones money.
However, in soccer it is known what top players earn - recently the Real Madrid  indicated that the sellibng price for Cristiano Ronaldo is 1 Billion Euros.   Is any sportsman that valuable?
S o where to now - I guess weekly checks should keep most sportsmen in check - but that does not always work.  The Sydney Olympics was a drug fest.  The athletes were checked but it was only in 2001 when a California laboratory was discovered that was producing undetectable drugs which could not be found by the 2000 testing methods.
How many such laboratories is stillin existence?  Nobody knows.   
And as for cycling?  What a farce.   
  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Oct 2014, 21:47
#11
22 Oct 2014, 21:47#11
Always great to see the Haka!  
I don't know how the boys on either team kept cool with all that adrenalin pumping. Others of course would have run for their lives, lol
Wee Beeno "facing" the Haka


Well at least he's off the sofa mumbled the fair-minded kiwi
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