Nine South Africans in the 365 TOW

Bryan, for his very rare charge down and work rate, Willie (the new Campo), Serfontein for the first time, Morne for the umpteenth time, Coenie, Strauss ( is he the best hooker in the world), Mtembu on a great debut, Arno Botha and Bekker.

Can't say I disgree with those calls except for Habana......he did some good, mixed with plenty of bad......there were better wings on the weekend

Moz, I think Arno Botha really stood tall this week.  He is the real deal. He could well be the new Bok 7. Is a harder man than Labaschagne methings?

Always remember the Beeno golden rule  - no show ponies ala matfield in the Bok 8. Show ponies belong in the abs pack not the Bok pack.  The Bok pack needs to be an ab mincing machine. That Etzebeth is a good example of a great ab mincer. 

I don't disagree. I thought Vermeulen was massive in a tough match....but Mtembu was outstanding. Great nous in his first game of consequence.

Vermuelen now looks to be completley over his injury setback. Loved that run he put in leading to the Stormers try. Hope also Etzebeth comes back with a bang. Kolisi if chosen should be better for a rest and Elstdat will be better with a full game under his belt. Betting Malherbe will start.

Rule as always - in their faces for 80 minutes till they cave in.

Mtembu had  a very nice debut game and Plum has some selection quandries at loosie. He needs to play Keegan off the bench but wont.

How serious can you take these evaluations if they have one like this?:

5 - Andries Bekker (Stormers):
Some members of our panel really believe the world's tallest centre adds value as a lock.
Bubbling under: Brodie Retallick (Chiefs)

Apart from having a dig at Bekker about his "backline play", Juandre Kruger was much better than Bekker based on this weekend's play.

Ceradiyne

Not only Kruger - but virtually every other lock was better than bekker - who did the absolute minimum on the field of play.   Really the best lock was Romano by some distance - followed by virtually every other lock.  Retallick was wicked as well so they have it totally wrong here.

I saw Mthembu playing in the werm-up game and he was massive - the best loosie on display that evening. 

Beeno

How many times before was Labuschagne in the team of the week?   And who holds the record for the number of tackles, kline-iut takes  and turnovers  by a 7 in the whole Super 15 thus far?   One game is not the alpha and omega of determinations - consistency is the rule.  

 Oom Maaik stop talking rubbish Bekker had a big game. But I agree with Vlag that Juandre Kruger deserved the spot. While PS du Toit was struggling, missing tackles and gifting tries, Kruger was emphasizing his claim to the Bok 5 berth. I have always rated Kruger, in spite of the incessant criticism of his play.

Mozart

A big game?   Need a fe stats here I think:-

No life signs other than the 6 line outs and 10 tackles.  The other 5's I look at did much more in actual play and performance than Bekker did.   He acually was awarded only 11 points by Foxsport for his efforts - compared to Du Toit who got 16 points.  Accrording to their stats he made 9 tackles and missed 1 and he knocked on balls twice - which co-incides with the data oof ESPN.

No great game there I am afaraid to say.  Bog ordinary - an average game at best.

Kruger has been poor all season for the Bulls. His game on Sat was good for a change. He has been exposed at test level where he has added little value to the Boks.

I was a big fan until he started playing for the Boks. He lacks physical clout at the highest level. PSDT did not struggle for the Sharks, but on the day Kruger was better and thats the only time that has happened all S15.

Saffex

I agree with you about Du Toit - he is better than  Kruger.   There is a persistent problem with Kruger - he is not a good line-out jumper and far to often lose line-outs on own throw.  On Saturday he took seven line-outt balls - but lost three.  Just not good enough for a good lock.

Kruger did have a good game for the Bulls, but he has been a poor replacement for Matfield at test level. We needed Bekker to take over, but he has turned his back on Bok rugby.

We have plenty of depth at lock these days, so there is no need to waste our time with Kruger particularly since he is off to France.

PSDT has been a revelation this season, but as the Sharks supporters correctly point out, the youngster can't be expected to carry the physical load each week.

I have no issue with starting youngsters like PSDT for the Boks. In an ideal world, it would have been handy having Bekker start and PSDT playing off the bench. We dont have this option. We can no longer afford to have Kruger at 5, he sells the Boks short. So I would start PSDT with Etzebeth.

Well Oom Maaik that just proves my suspicion that your Fantasy points system is complete garbage....not worth considering.  PS du Toit gifted the opposition 14 points and was then yanked at minute 53. To say he had a better game than Bekker or Kruger is a joke. He is a long way yet from test ready.

PSDT went off injured and showed in game one of the S15 that he was test ready and everyone has said as much including the Bok coach. He never gifted two tries, the first try should not have been a try as PSDT was tackled without the ball and prevented from bringing down the 8. The second try was a fluke with that ball ending up in the oppositions hands. 

PSDT will play test rugby next month

If you are holding a player up, it's not surprising opposition players barge into you......it was basically a maul at that point. The problem was Steff never held on....his fault, nobody else's . And the freak thing wouldn't have happened if he hadn't lost control  in the offload .

They were mistakes....everybody makes them. It doesn't mean he hasn't got real potential. But if you look at his game against the Chiefs, it's not hard to imagine a NZ pack exploiting him at this stage. He should be played off the bench, as yet he is no Etzebeth.

Mozart

Crap as to the point allocation. in respect of the fantasy sport because you do not know what you talk about.   Let me explain.   Bekker took six balls in line-outs - 6 points.   He made 9 tackles - 9 points.  He played for 80 minutes - 3 points.   Made 1 run with ball in hand - 1 point.    Missed 1 tackle - minus 2 points.   Knocked on balls twice - minus 6 points.    But for th e number of tackles made and the fact that he missed one - it is exactly the same as the stats on ESPN.   

The problem was the two balls balls knocked on by Bekker and the missed tackle - poor play is heavily penalized and those were poor play on the part of Bekker.   That ost him minus 8 points.- since it represent handing over of possession to the opposition.  

So dear Mozart got it wrong again as so often happened in the past.  Just as an aside in the 54 minutes Du Toit played - he made as many tckles as Bekker made in the entire match -  namely 10 and he missed on tackle.   He took 5 line outs.    The only thing where the point system can be criticized on is the pass that did not go to hand and the Chiefs player got hold of the ball.   He should have been penalized for that.   

However, Du Toit did roundabout the same number of positive things on the field of play in 54 minutes as Bekker did in the entire game he was on the field of play for 80 minutes.   So Mozart made one assessment and then goes through the roof about that one issue and totally forgot the rest of what he did on the field of play - but that is fairly normal on your part.  One incident is caree-determined on your part.

@Saffex. Every no 5 lock in SA, at the moment, is a poor replacement for Victor Matfield, including Bekker. I totally disagree with you about him being poor, all season, for the Bulls. His, and the Bulls' line-out has improved steadily over the season. In their first game the won 7 line outs on their own throw and lost 3. And even in that game they beat the Stormers in the line outs. The Stormers won 8 and lost 6 on their own throw. Compare that to winning 12 and loosing 1 against in their last game. He has taken over the role of Victor Matfield in organising the line-outs and the line-out defence.

I would agree that you do not see him running around in the back-line like Bekker, but isn't that exactly part of the critics againat Bekker? He has made 86% of his tackles and he has won 90% of his line-out balls. He won 36 and lost only 4 in the entire season. I am by no means saying that Kruger is the best no 5 lock in SA at the moment, but he has by no means been poor either.

Agreed, PSDT is not Etzebeth, but he is by far our best option at 5, given Bekker is not available.

Cera, maybe I was being a bit harsh saying Kruger has been poor this season, he has just not impressed other than in his last game. There should be no criticism of locks like Bekker joining the line, its a strength and what one wants to see in a lock or any forward for that matter, provided they also do their primary roles, which Bekker does do.

I expect a top class lock to impose themselves physically, I want to see them on the charge with ball in hand, taking contact and making yards. I want to see them clearing out rucks and putting in big hits. I also want to know that he has the physical attributes to be a positive contributor in the engine room at scrum and maul time. Kruger provides little of this and even less so at international level. He is not a test standard lock and given our depth at lock, we need to move on from him now.

Correct. I also do not disagree with forwards in the back-line. It happens and it happens a lot. that is the modern game. Fact is that many do criticize Bekker for that. Having said that, this season is the first season that Bekker has actually constantly been effective when he joins the back-line. In the past he, quite often, used to stuff up in the back-line. How many potential tries has he not butchered with useless handling and decission making when he joined the back-line? Thing is that you quite often have forward players who do break out and are prominent with the ball in hand, but there are players who are equally effective albeit not as prominent in open play. The players who do the so-called donkey work without being noticed.

Once again, I do not think that Kruger is a Matfield, Bakkies, Bekker, etc, but he is an intelligent and a  valuable player within his team set-up. It is no secret that he does play a major leadership role up front, and when he did play for the Springboks, he definitely did not led them down.

Disagree, Kruger was a passenger in the Bok side. He is not an international standard lock. He is not physical enough

A matter of opinion, but he was the go-to man when we had injuries and sister Bekker was also out injured once again, and IIRC when he was ready to play again, Bekker had a few shockers as well.

The fact that he was the go to man does not mean he was the right choice. He was poor at test level and part of the reason we underachieved last year. I dont rate him, much like I never rated Johan Muller at test level and given Meyer has the average Franco v/d Merwe in his squad, one has to start asking if Meyer knows what he is doing when it comes to locks.