Not surprised at all with the reaction of some site members to the Sprngbok coaching by Erasmus

After reading about Erasmus coaching career it was obvious that he was always a top class coach iro every team he coached.   Prior to his departure back to SA he was the Coach of the Year for Munster in the then Top 12 competition.   

I am amazed how everybody rate and respect Erasmus highly - while the spin machines Mozart and AO is in full attack on him and two of the key players in the WC winning effort.

I think part of their problem is that they would rather have seen the team not winning the WC than Erasmus and some players being involved in the win.   I do not understand why that is the case.   Maybe it would have been proven them to be correct iro of the hundreds of posts they conjured up about Erasmus and the players they have been prejudiced against for years and now they have an egg mountain to overcome.

They never congratulated the team in winning the WC and obviously knew how to start their normal deception BS to discredit the coach and players,   One  of the things they conjure up is routinely falsified BS that happened in games - mostly consisting  totally  dreamt- up BS what they would have wanted to see happening and never actually had anything to do with reality..   Then there was the other technique of AO to prove that the Springbok team of 2015 performed better than the 2019 WC winners.   Really unbelievable - but he leaves out critical issues in his reasoning like -

*   matches win and lost in the RC and WC in 2015 and 2019 respectively; and

*   scoring of tries.

Childish but true.   According to the two Meyer was outstanding and had a wonderful game plan - Erasmus is an idiot who took Springbok performances into the gutter according to AO.  In analyzing what they actually write there are just misrepresentations as to what actually happened to games.   I just took one case of misrepresentation by Mozart and indicated what really happened and he ran away from the issue like avoiding a plague.   I do not even bother with any of their other predictable BS stories.

Why don't Mozart and AO just admit that the Springboks of 2019 won the WC and congratulate the team and the coach on the achievement,  If that happens just maybe the stories they dream up could sound more plausible - until then it is just total BS spouting.                     

Why don't Mozart and AO just admit that the Springboks of 2019 won the WC and congratulate the team and the coach on the achievement,

Mozart's entire post after the game was complimentary, and ended with this:

"Well done Rassie that was a master  class. If the Boks stick with this formula we can get back to where we were before our banning.....top dog."

I did congratulate the team, where did I deny that the Boks won the World Cup. The difference between you and I is that you are a Rassie supporter; I'm a Bok supporter. That's a considerable difference. Shall I recall your posts in 2013? Calling the Bok wins moral losses, their tries as "not real" tries, because Morné was playing? Or those who stated our 2007 triumph was a farce because of the opposition we played? You twice, in August last year, chimed in with that! Not only that, you lied about the Bok rankings under Meyer, diminishing Bok achievements to attack Meyer. Why? Are you a true Bok supporter? Where did I do such things? Not only that, you lied about the Bok's win percentages in two exchanges with me last year. Yet again diminishing the Bok's achievements under two coaches. Why? Are you a true Bok supporter? Or are you merely a Rassie fanboy?

Moral of the story: Speak less, think more. 

Yes, it is rather amusing seeing a guy like Rooinek, who had no time for the 2007 win, now demanding that everyone bow down and pay respects.

I have no problem appreciating the win in isolation from other coaching eras. As I said to Lügnerin in my first response to anyone after I congratulated the team, enjoy the moment. He is persistently the fly in his own soup. Why not enjoy the win? But no. He immediately starts a string of threads attacking other members and attacks past coaches. He is no Bok supporter, he is another of those plastics. Interestingly, the Bok win was my predicted outcome, by almost the same score. And in the same manner as I foretold! Now he is preaching to me that I can't stand the win? Lügnerin, get another clown act. That or quit the clown business, you aren't cut out for it. 

In a dull and predictable game where neither side showed any ambition or flair, the Springboks managed to beat the English thanks to a very marginal decision where Mark Cueto's foot appeared to go out of touch.

Yes, you sound over the moon.

Did I say it was a great game, chump? It was a dull and predictable game (certainly in comparison to this one) and that Cueto call was very close . . . but I'm still waiting for proof that I had "no time" for the actual result. I remember celebrating like crazy.

A lack of rugby acumen. Imagine expecting a side to throw the ball around in a game with hotly contested breakdowns? More tactical failures by the same faces. 

Interestingly, the 2007 Boks didn't face anyone of note. What of the 2019 Boks? Lost to New Zealand, played Namibia, Italy, Canada and Japan and a decimated Welsh side. Then England. Imagine that, twelve years in the making. Hilarious! 

And before anyone says it, I'm only using their logic against them.

We all celebrated, then and in 2019. Maybe you did as you say, but I find it hard believing your intense dislike of Jake White would have left you over the moon. That part is your recollection against mine, unfortunately.

In the years after the celebration though, you're slagging off the the win, making sure everyone understands how lucky it was, how easy the draw was, how poor the standard of play was, how useless the coaches were. Relate to me the difference between that and the questions some posters are asking here of the coach and certain players.

Because the Coach you preach about - Meyer - was ultimately a dead loss to the Springboks. Fact.  His team in the EOYT in 2014 collapsed totally and from then until the loss in the 2015 WC against Japan their record was 3 wins 6  losses.  

The fact is that Meyer had no idea about squad selection - the 2015 squad was a disaster - with 8 unplayable players all of whom played less than 60 minutes in games in the WC.  Result the other players were over-played and dead on their feet before the semi.

Meyer never had a discernable game plan and that is why the tryscoring under him disintegrated into the worse in the RC series and in the WC.   There was a total non-use of backline players because the idiot coach himself said the backline players have not got the skill to play a ball-in-hand game.   He also said that he select players on what he knows they were capable of in the past (never mind when that past was) and that performance is not a norm for selection.    In the process he refused outright to select even a single player from the Lions squad for the 2015 WC squad - despite the fact that the Lions were the top performing SA team that year.

Why did I attack Meyer?  Because you -arsehole - and Mozart started a character assassination attack on Erasmus.   Fact is that I just pointed out that Erasmus is a top class coach and has always been one anyway - the same cannot be said about Meyer .

So what happened since?   Meyer ended up as the coach of Stade Francais and was given a fortune to recruit players to upgrade the team.   He started off recruiting some very good forwards - but was a total flop when it came to recruitment of backline players.   Same as was the case in Meyer's history in the past.   The result is that Stade Francais is at present on the bottom of the log  of the Orange Top 14 with atrocious results being the norm.   A disaster club coach and you thought he is a top class test coach.   What a lark.   It was a great relief to all real rugby lovers to see him gone - only to be succeeded by a worse specimen.   

Incidentally the discussion on the sides the Boks faced in 2019 was started by Mozart as well.   It was only pointed out that the Springboks had an even easier path to the finals than they had in 2019.   Despite everything - the 2007 side struggled to beat Tonga in the round-robin stage and Fiji in the quarterfinals.  Bad news those two matches.   In the semi in 2007 they beat Argentina and  nearly because of Fat Fransie's missed tackles - got unstuck against England in the final - ending up beating England 15-6.   They never scored a try in 2007 in the final.

Come along 2019 and you claim the Wales team lost because of a :decimated" Wales side.  Funny - but we had even more squad injuries than Wales had.   England in 2007 was not the Number 1 side in the world - before hey lost to the Springboks they were the number 1 side - even though it was only for a week.   England this year was by far a better team than they were in 2007.   They had a better coach as well - and yet lost the game 32-12. 

There you go again. Your true colours. You only support Rassie so vehemently because he is your anti-Meyer. You are no Bok supporter, just a Rassie otaku. Thankyou for confirming this, again. 

No dimness - you and Mozart started the BS and I defended Erasmus.   I am not using him or anybody because I am anti-Meyer.  Do not need it - Meyer was an atrocious coach anyway and his whole selection system collapsed in 2015,   Fact.  No degree of dreaming up non-existent game plans by you would prove that Meyer in fact had a game plan.   There was one big zero and Meyer himself gave the reasons for my assumption as well..      

Duplicate

AO

You attack Erasmus on a basis and for reasons  that you dreamed up - far from reality.  You also scream about how good Meyer's game plan was when in fact he had none.  But according to you Erasmus does not have a game plan  other than box-kicking - which is utter BS anyway,

Start thinking before you write shit on site - or better still - you have so disgraced yourself already a new user name is called for in your case.       

Stop comparing the two, and I won't talk about Meyer. It's that simple. Until you learn to control yourself, you'll keep being corrected. 

"for reasons  that you dreamed up - far from reality."

That's your opinion, not a fact. It is also a fact that you are a compulsive liar. 

As for Rassie's gameplan? Who are you to determine. You called switch passes and circle balls "make believe" terms. You don't even know what the basic attacking movements are. When discussing patterns, you were clueless again. Basic shapes that were used under both Rassie and Meyer were unknown to you, hence your "Schalk is flyhalf" gaff. If you truly want to portray Rassie in a positive light, stop talking about Meyer, stop talking full stop. 

AO

Why did Du Preez make 50 ball passes in 2015 WC semi - of which only 13 went to Pollard?   Who was receiving the rest of the passes idiot?

In the Japan game Schalk received three times as many passes from Pienaar and Du Preez than Lambie and Pollard got.   That is why I sad jokingly that Burger was the stand-in flyhalf.  

How did Meyer design a game plan that was the one you claimed he had if what you wrote on the issue being in direct contrast to the comments by Meyer himself.

Your record on so-called game plans was so atrocious in the past that it is clear that you dream up things that is non-existent.  The same happened to the so-called game plan you ascribed to Erasmus.    The difference was in both cases you clearly did not see or understand what actually happens,

There is factually a master plan designed by Erasmus that incorporate the playing of 15 man rugby exactly as was used  against the English on Saturday and executed perfectly.   .             

Just put up the proof that I asked for, chump, and stop trying to change the subject.

You mean a whole essay by you, including sucking up to a NZ poster making sure he understands that you think more highly of the AB win in 2011 than the Bok win in 2007, is not enough proof?

You're welcome to all those opinions, of course. It's just so amusing to see you trashing a Bok side and their performance like that back then, but now you're stomping around this forum rallying other posters to speak out against any questioning of the 2019 effort.

'In a dull and predictable game where neither side showed any ambition or flair, the Springboks managed to beat the English thanks to a very marginal decision where Mark Cueto's foot appeared to go out of touch. It was the final bit of luck that Jake needed and suddenly this very ordinary, talentless and unlikeable man was a RWC winner . . . something that neither he nor his legion of adoring fans will ever forget . . . although they don't like to talk about the remarkable circumstances leading up to the victory!'

.....

There's your red faced Springbok supporter.  Which followed this:

'The Springboks had 2 chances, Slim and None, and Slim left town when Pierre Spies got injured'.

There's your hypocrite.

By the way it wasn't a marginal  call, his foot touched the line and chalk came up, the images are clear ..a happy Bok fan denying the clear evidence favouring his team, has an  axe to grind. That axe was Jake White.

I told Moz that Rassie was a great coach way back in the days when Rassie coached Free State. He was always been a critic of Rassie.

The facts are simple the trio of Moz, Organhuffer and Pakster got it terribly wrong re Erasmus. They stuffed up monumentally re IRB Player of the year and also re Allende (Included in Planet Ruby's Composite RWC team) and Malherbe getting honorable mention and having a great RWC.

SO BOKS WIN RWC and Rassie is Coach of the year. 

These three have lost the debates on all counts. 

It's game set and match. 

And all I can say is I told you so. Hahahahahaha. 

"Posted by: Pakie (5373 posts)

Just put up the proof that I asked for, chump, and stop trying to change the subject.

You mean a whole essay by you, including sucking up to a NZ poster making sure he understands that you think more highly of the AB win in 2011 than the Bok win in 2007, is not enough proof?

You're welcome to all those opinions, of course. It's just so amusing to see you trashing a Bok side and their performance like that back then, but now you're stomping around this forum rallying other posters to speak out against any questioning of the 2019 effort"

Pakie, you are a legend...I hope we don't ever cross swords...I don't have the patience to wait you out.

Interesting that the ones trivializing the 2007 win, are now hyping this one, and vice versa...luckily I loved both without blaming the Boks for the other teams not making the final....the spats on this site are almost a reverse of what happened in 2007!

Nov 06, 2019, 18:23

By the way it wasn't a marginal  call, his foot touched the line and chalk came up, the images are clear..a happy Bok fan denying the clear evidence favouring his team, has an  axe to grind. That axe was Jake White.

Almost the same thing as telling us about the three tries Alende botched .

No....the 3 opportunities for Allende were not subject to a ref's call. A similar thing would be saying the pass from Marx to Mapimpi was forward, which it might have been.

And no in 2007 Peeper thought we had no chance to win. I gave us a 50/50 in the final and a real shot throughout the tournament. I also wanted the Boks to win, unlike Peeper, but I don't think credit has been fairly apportioned, which I demonstrated in the case of Allende.

If that bothers you I really don't care.

Mozart is always distorting incidents when it comes to his pet hate players.   I can remember as far back as 2013 - when he wrote a piece of utterly falsified BS as a report on what happened during the AB test in Johannesburg and the fact is he was just trying to protecting on site the worst players on the field that day.   It really was laughable it was such a farce.

That aside he tried the same stunts ever since, if one of his favourites buggers up badly - an excuse is found to blame other players he dislikes - one can almost say hates,  He also discovers incidents which were totally immaterial and falsified to blame some players.    He is totally unreliable when discovering stories in games and that has been proven.   Even prepared to use outright lies in the process.   

Once he gave  distorted names to designate anybody - beware he starts inventing  another series of BS stories only he discovered to belittle the players concerned.   It is always the same - paying attention to such distortion  BS is not really worth anything,   I wander how many threads he started mentioning in the heading Du Toit and De Allende or aimed entirely against those two players in content?  Must have run into hundreds already.  The tw o players have never done anything worth praising in all the years they played. What a farce.    .              

Fair answer Moz...and it doesn't bother me, I  just don't agree...and you shouldn't care. As for Peeper? Piece of work for sure. The righ thing would be to ignore him, but I can't do it either.

Well it makes no rational sense engaging  anybody on a Board , I could spend the time micro managing my stock options. But I enjoy the horse shyte.

Mozart

Are you more positive about the outlook as to rugby in SA  after the WC win - or are you not so?

We have so little to be happy about in SA at present and the fact is that the WC win encourages some of us to be more positive about the future than we have been for years.    For most people of all races at least this is a ray of hope in an otherwise dark and very pessimistic situation in the country at present.

Perhaps that is why on some issues I disliked intensely what you and AO came up with.    

Pakie you're a legend. You made it look so easy, not a squeak from you while the stinking hypocrite spilled his bile on his pet hate back in 2007  ....you sat back and took it all in only now highlighting his hypocrisy and bitter hate of the then coach, Jake White.

Legend!

I'll be in CT in June ....drinks are on me when we catchup

Denny

You are welcome to visit me in Riversdale and I will take you around the area and nearby towns like Still Bay to show you what life is like here.   Two days  is enough for such a visit and will include the historic farm where I was born and  grew up.   You will see why I love the area so much. .    

I'm a long way from CT Denny, but thanks for the offer

Pakie, if you don't mind sharing, from where are you and what local side do you support...my elephantine memory is either failing me or you haven't mentioned it before? I know you live in the Republic...Gautengeleng?

Hiding under a rock somewhere in the Northern Cape, Draad. Not gonna reveal more, I enjoy my anonymity. I've always been a Province man, although as I grew older I started worrying less about who to support and more about enjoying a game of rugby for what it is when I get round to watching one.

Pakie  always was a Bulls supporter as far as I can remember.   Beeno would be able to confir m it,  

Nope Mike, WP/Stormers . Beeno's head is so full of fake news and deep state shenanigans I doubt he can confirm his own name on a day to day basis.

Northern Cape...interesting.  I've been to Upington, Kenhardt, Kimberley and Hartswater in the last few months. Lived in Upington for 2 years prior to 2000. I've even been to Askham a few times...and saw it rain in the Kalahari atleast 3 times...almos frightful for a Bolander.

Province man...no wonder you have a level head on your shoulders. 

If you're ever near CT, I'll buy you an anonymous beer if you have the time.

Maaik, you might have assumed so...I can't say that I read everything on here, but I can't recal ever seeing Pakie openly support a team...and he has been very carfull about how much he share/reveal about himself...that's why I asked...I think it took me a few years to confirm that he lives in SA....not that it should matter anyway. 

PS, Pakie, the Hartswater area impressed me...almost like the Boland without mountains 

The Vaalharts is a beautiful area, some of the more lush scenery in the province along with the sprawling vineyards of the Lower Orange Basin of course (as you'd know from having lived in Upington). Some call the Northern Cape the armpit of South Africa (like those who wanted Namibia to buy it to pay off Eskom's debt, haha!), but these vast open spaces and arid landscapes have an irresistible allure for me. Violent crime is relatively low in most areas (except places like Kuruman, which is a human trafficking hotspot) so it's still far more peaceful living than in many other parts of the country. Health care and municipalities etc. as much a shambles as everywhere else unfortunately.

Thanks for the drinks invite, just maybe it happens one day