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FORUM / RUGBY /  Opinions divided over sevens conundrum (NZ); TOBY ROBSON

Opinions divided over sevens conundrum (NZ); TOBY ROBSON

Started by Just_win11 REPLIES361 VIEWS· 30 Jul 2014, 09:34
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 Jul 2014, 09:34
#1
30 Jul 2014, 09:34#1

Opinions in New Zealand rugby are divided on the details of how many top tier fifteens players should be made available for a tilt at Olympic sevens and how those players should be transitioned into rugby's abbreviated game.

New Zealand Rugby Union chief executive Steve Tew confirmed today a number of top tier Super Rugby players and All Blacks would prioritise sevens in 2016 in the lead up to the Rio de Janeiro Games.

However, he said there was plenty of debate around exactly how that process would be handled and hinted the failure to win gold in Glasgow would be factored into discussions.

"We've said we will pick the best team possible to go win a gold medal in Rio, but the debate is what makes that team up?" Tew told Radio Sport. "Is it a lot of players who have been only involved in sevens for a long period of time? Or is it a mix of players who have played both versions of the game?

"In the end it is going to come down to how many and for how long? My sense is we will have some fifteens players who could make a very valuable contribution and transition in a relatively short period of time and others who would need longer."

New Zealand sevens coach Gordon Tietjens revealed after his side's 17-12 loss to South Africa in the Commonwealth Games final, that he had sent letters to a number of All Blacks asking them to forgo test and Super Rugby commitments in 2016.

"I think that may well happen. It's how many players would make that call, how many we think would need to, and how long they have to make the commitment to transition," Tew said.

"Depending who you talk to there is a variety of views on those subjects, which is not surprising because it's not an exact science. We are having a healthy debate."

Tietjens wants Olympic contenders to play at least four to six IRB World Series sevens tournaments in 2016.

"The judgement bit that's going to be really critical is working out where that finally sits. [All Blacks coach] Steve [Hansen] has also pointed out at an All Black level we wouldn't want to take our eyes off that ball either," Tew said.

"We clearly have All Blacks who are interested and have it written into their contracts [to be released to play sevens]. We have provisions for it, but we haven't yet finished the debate as to how many will play from fifteens and how long they'll have to play for. The learnings from Glasgow will now be thrown into that discussion."

That included how a switch to sevens would affect the players' salaries.

"That's one of the things that needs to be taken into account. We haven't drawn a final line on that, but it's fair to say that if there were a small number of players who we thought were critical then we'd have to look after them financially."

The New Zealand squad in Glasgow included just one Super Rugby player, Blues utility back Pita Ahki, who was injured early in the tournament.

In Delhi four years ago Tietjens utilised the services of Ben Smith, Liam Messam, Hosaea Gear and Kurt Baker on the way to winning a third straight gold medal.

But Tew also cautioned against the view that not winning gold in Glasgow was proof the Olympic team needed to be stacked with first string All Blacks.

"I think it's worth mentioning the guys who have committed themselves to sevens over a long period of time and who will likely have done the donkey work to get us qualified," he said.

"One loss in 31 games at the Commonwealth Games doesn't mean the panic balloon needs to go up.

"But nor should we paper over it. We need to be mindful of and look at what other countries are going to do. Ultimately we have a very senior and experienced practitioner in Titch and a number of people in the high performance area around him, all of whom will have the ability to contribute to that debate. That's not likely to conclude until some time near the end of this year.

"We've had it a priority goal for some time and both the men and women in Rio are gold medal aspirations. That's what we've prepared ourselves to do and that's what we'll continue to work toward."

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 10:45
#2
30 Jul 2014, 10:45#2
 JW
Will this actually help by drafting in Super 15 and test players?   I am not sure it will.  In the Sevens game you basically needs pace and physicality.   I think New Zealand lost the last game and most of the games they played since 2012 against the Blitzbokke because of the pace deficiency.   
The Super 15 and test players may improve the physicality component - but wll they be meeting the apace requirement?   I doubt it very much.    I think that too much physicality and too little pace is not the ideal situation at all.
Lets face facts - the Blitzbokke pick three players to add physicality and 4 out and out pace men.    The three also have - bar for one - reasonable pace as well,  they are on par with the backline players of New Zealand.  
It seems to me that it should be a better way to go for New Zealand as well.
      
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Jul 2014, 10:57
#3
30 Jul 2014, 10:57#3
Mike the kiwis are in an out and out panic. How many times havent they lost to the Blitzbokke now! Its becoming a habit. Hence they fall back and do what they are accustomed to doing. They plan to load their seven side with abs. Loading is their game.
I think it could work for them if these oaks are given sufficient sevens times.
We will have to follow suit.
NT
ntangaClub Pro336 posts
30 Jul 2014, 11:50
#4
30 Jul 2014, 11:50#4
 I think they should call in a few ABs just to bolster their Sevens.   But I still think the New Zealand Sevens are a good team.  losing only one match in Glasgow does not necessarily mean things are bad for the ABs Sevens.  It just means they lost to a more clinical and superior Blitzbokke team on the day.    

 

I thought Habana was meant to feature in Glasgow for Blitzbokke team, I didn't see him, did he play at all. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 12:06
#5
30 Jul 2014, 12:06#5
 ntanga
The problem is not confined to the game in Glasgow only.  Since December 2012 the AB 7's lost virtually every game they played against the Blizbbokke up to February 2014 and they in fact beat us in one game this year.  We have our own hang ups losing games that we should have won against other teams - but we have been beating the All Blacks with rare exceptions a long period of time.
I think the final straw was the loss on Sunday - they realize they need to do something to strengthen their 7's squad.   
Habana was on stand-by for the squad in the case of injuries - but was never asked  in fact to join the squad and he never was involved at all.           
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
30 Jul 2014, 12:21
#6
30 Jul 2014, 12:21#6
 Well NZ are the defending world series champions at sevens, so nt sure wT this harping on about SA Blitz Boks is about, it was just one game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 12:39
#7
30 Jul 2014, 12:39#7
3ku1
The record is as follow since 2912
Played           -        8New Zealand  -         1SA               -         7
The panic is not about the World Series - it is obviously about the Olympics and preparation for that one. 


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Jul 2014, 15:32
#8
30 Jul 2014, 15:32#8
 Exactly so Mike. You will note ou 3 IQ thought its only one game.the oaks running nz rugby are far more alert and, wht is more, they can count! 
The simple truth is the kiwis are in a flat spin.  All I can say is prepare for a similar experience in the 15 man code. Its coming kbbs brains so pre pare yoursleves.
NT
ntangaClub Pro336 posts
30 Jul 2014, 16:26
#9
30 Jul 2014, 16:26#9
 Well said Mike; that's a big dent the Blitzbokke has given the ABs Sevens.

Now it will take a brave 3 IQ to drop his pride a wee bit, that wouldn't hurt much at all, would it?


Its all good fun though!
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
30 Jul 2014, 16:28
#10
30 Jul 2014, 16:28#10
 Oh so were comparing to 2012 now are we? For the record I don't recall saying Boks haven't beaten NZ at Sevens that much. I just said NZ wan the world series last year, and it was only one game at the Commonwealth Games. The Trend was BlitBoks susposed being Supeior over NZ. By pointing out the World Series, I was putting into a general context. You may have an encyclopedia of how many times NZ has loss to Boks, does not mean I can't count. Want counting 3-0, the number of times Abs kicked yarpie butt last year . Of course in terms of preparation for the Olympics, NZ have a while to go. But Commonwealth games Is a 3 day comp, NZ wan a world series over a year to me that's important.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 Jul 2014, 16:36
#11
30 Jul 2014, 16:36#11

Beeno, et. al: a note of clarification real rugby is played by 15 men, not 13 or 7 or whatever number you all want to come up with

 

Beeno: based on your new avatar weee Etzabeth has come down to earth. He looks a little pissed off with the little character rolling around on the floor in his little red booties though, lol

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2014, 16:42
#12
30 Jul 2014, 16:42#12
 3Ku1
Sorry - it was not in 2012 - it started in 2012 and carried through to the present time.
The AB 7's won the Series but not by winning the various tournaments.  The often enough came 2nd or 3rd and maintain accumulating points that way.   That is because of the way the point system are structured.
Insofar as final wins are concerned they were few and far between.  
     
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