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Our depth

Started by Saffolk 27 REPLIES497 VIEWS· 29 May 2014, 17:36
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 17:36
#1
29 May 2014, 17:36#1

As Bok coach, how could you possibly not select a world beating side from this (bold, my squad choices):


Fullbacks: Its pretty much an easy call selecting one of the best players in the game here in Willie le Roux.......some would have him on the wing.....what bullshit. We have depth at 15 in Jaco Taute, SP Marais and Visser......all more than handy. Add Baby Bok Jessie Kriel who is a star in the making and Andries Coetzee of the Lions who sadly has missed most of the season injured. Ulrich Beyers of the Bulls is another useful player. 


So we have: le Roux / Taute / SP Marais / Visser / Coetzee / Kriel / Beyers



Wings: Here we have the two experienced campaigners in JP and Habana, both world class, with Habana nearing the end no doubt. Add to these, youngster like Kobus v/Wyk, Rhule, Kolbe, v/d Heever, Volmink, Mapoe, Hendricks, Skosan and Sithole. Mvovo has rediscovered his mojo under Jake. We have de Allende who can operate on the wing and probably the most exciting of the lot is Senatla of the Blitzbokke who is joining the Cheetahs for the CC. This guy was awesome for the Baby Boks last year and has been the star of the Blitzbokke this year. I for one believe Jordaan and de Jongh should be played on the wing as they are too small for centre. We should not forget about Mjekevu who has moved to France and Baby Bok, Sergel Petersen set the Kings alight last year. Duan v/d Merwe is one to watch, total injustice that he has not made the Baby Bok squad but aged 18, he has time on his side.


So we have: Habana / JP / Rhule / v/d Heever / Mvovo / Mapoe / Skosan / Volmink / Kolbe / v/Wyk / Hendricks / Sithole / Senatla / de Jongh / Jordaan / de Allende / Petersen / Mjekevu



Centres: Old man Jean might still have something to offer, but I for one believe Jan has far more clout. JJ has suffered under the Bulls with ball in hand but has silenced all defensively with the best defensive stats of all the centres in the S15. de Allende has emerged as our best attacking threat by some distance and Jan Serfontein has started to hit his straps of late - loved that offload to Ross for the try on the weekend, much like Fran's offload to Sithole the week before.


At outside centre, our best options are JJ and de Allende. I'm with Meyer here on de Allende playing 13.......it looks to be the position most suited to his skills. There are some quality back-ups in Mapoe, Sadie and Sithole. Its good to see Sadie finally fulfilling his potential and some investment being shown in Sithole by Jake at the Sharks. At last we get to see talented Stokkies Hanekom starting at 13 for the Lions this weekend.......this guy has Jaques Fourie written all over him. Like JJ, I believe Kobus v/Wyk of the Stormers, would make a great 13, having played most of his rugby at 12. He looks like a JJ clone. Its a pity we have missed out on Pat Howard this season to date with injury, he should have made the Stormers 13 spot his own by now. Jaco Taute is always an option at 13 and we have some quality youngsters in Andre Esterhuizen, Rohan Janse van Rensburg and Dan Kriel of the Baby Boks. Esterhuizen plays 12, but like de Allende, his best spot could be 13. Injured Tyler Fisher of the Sharks is another class act - Jake is a big fan, so we should see plenty of him on his return. I also hope Jan Serfontein's school, SA schools and Baby Bok partner Dries Swanepoel breaks through sooner than later with the Bulls. Small-Smith is another handy player.


So we have: JJ / de Allende / Mapoe / Sithole / Sadie / Howard / Hanekom / Taute / v/Wyk / Swanepoel / Esterhuizen / Janse v Rensburg / Kriel / Howard / Small-Smith


At inside centre, we still have old man Jean putting is some useful contributions, we have Frans Steyn showing glimpses of his class, but he needs time out to sort his knees out and in Jan Serfontein, we have the real deal. I like the way Frans Venter took his opportunities at the Cheetahs, but sadly got injured. Heimar Williams has looked good for the Sharks when given the opportunity. de Allende, Kobus v/Wyk, Andre Esterhuizen and Rohan Janse v Rensburg are all options at 12. SA Schools 12, Daniel du Plessis (Michael du Plessis's son) is a star of the future who played in the Baby Bok warm up games against the Argies and should have made the final squad - but is only 18. I am a big fan of fancy feet Howard Mnisi of Griquas who has wasted the season carrying bags at the Cheetahs. Robert Ebershon is always an option.


So we have: Jean / Frans / Serfontein / Venter / Mnisi / Williams / Esterhuizen / Janse v Rensburg / du Plessis / Ebersohn



Flyhalves: Goosen stands tall here, hell he single handedly beat the Brumbies and its good to see him rediscover his mojo. Muscling up has helped his cause. Its a pity we have lost the impressive Lambie to a bicep injury of all things. The Sharks lost direction after his departure. Jantjies has fallen out of favour with useless Ackerman at the Lions - very poor treatment of a talented player. Boshoff looks handy for the Lions and Pollard looks the real deal at the Bulls. Potgieter is a more than handy enough player who would not let any side down. Same can be said of Catrekillis. I never initially rated Coleman at the Stormers, but he is fast proving me wrong. Tim Swiel is the real deal and needs some investment from Jake. He could be the next big thing with his attacking instincts. Zielinga looks useful enough. Frans is an option to cover at 10, but I dont see 10 as being his starting spot......level headed is not something you associate with Frans and his hand to boot is too slow under pressure. Ebersohn looks to be in the form of his life, showing the form he always promised at lower levels. Grant is off form, but handy when on song.


So we have: Goosen / Lambie / Jantjies / Boshoff / Pollard / Swiel / Potgieter / Coleman / Ebersohn / Frans / Zielinga / Catrekillis / Grant



Scrumhalves: Hougaard gets better and better each week, his doubters have been left with egg on their faces. He stands tall as our 9. Faf de Klerk has be the find of the year, what a player this kid is - he has test rugby written all over him. Reinach has been good for the Sharks as has Groom for the Stormers. v/Zyl should never have moved to the Bulls, he is too good a player to be wasted on the bench. Schrauder is a good 9 who is currently out injured. du Preez and Pienaar might still have something to offer, but I would not really bother. Kockott keeps impressing in France and has always been a quality player hard done by in SA.


So we have: Hougaard / Reinach / de Klerk / v/Zyl / Groom / Schrauder / du Preez / Pienaar / Kockott



Props: We have our incumbents in Jannie and Beast, with Beast going strong and Jannie coming to his end. We have more than enough depth to cover both sides of the scrum.


At tighthead, Coenie is our best option, his conversion to tighthead has been successful and the better option given his tendency to try scrum straight through his opponent. Being completely bound at 3 helps prevent him from scrumming upwards. We have some quality young tightheads in Malherbe, Marcel v/d Merwe, Frik Kirsten, Maks v/Dyk and Rossouw de Klerk. Marcel v/d Merwe could be the best of the batch. Trevor Nkanyane looks equally at home at tighthead. Redelinghuys of the Lions is a good scrummager. Adriaanse has slipped in status as far as I am concerned, lacks rugby skill. Jannie still has plenty to offer.


So we have: Coenie / Malherbe / v/d Merwe / v/Dyk / Kirsten / de Klerk / Nkanyane / Adriaanse / Redelinghuys / Jannie


At loosehead, Beast has been in great form for the Sharks so is under no threat for the Boks. But if we lost Beast, we would be well covered with youngsters like Kitshoff, Nkanyane, Mellett, Schalk v/d Merwe, Ollie Kebble and Chadwick. By all accounts Baby Bok loosehead Thomas du Toit is one for the future, the 18 year old was part of the Sharks S15 squad. Of course Coenie is a loosehead by trade so is always an option here, as is Marcel v/d Merwe.


So we have: Beast / Kitshoff / Nkanyane / S.v/d Merwe / M. v/d Merwe / Kebble / Chadwick / du Toit / Mellett



Hookers: We have the two best hookers in the game in Bismark and Strauss, so its tough for the next lads in line. But we have good depth in Chiliboy, Callie Visagie, Cooper, Scara, Fourie, Coetzee and Mbonambi. Baby Bok, Malcolm Marx is by all accounts the real deal. Schalk Brits is the unpolished diamond of SA rugby.....we missed out on a class act here......the perfect bench hooker. Burden has been a big hit at Toulon.


So we have: Bismark / Strauss / Chiliboy / Cooper / Visagie / Scara / Mbonambi / Brits / Fourie / Burden / Marx



Locks: We have locks to burn, so why oh why are we calling on old men like Bakkies and Matfield - it defies all comprehension. The best lock in the game is Eben Etzebth, the Stormers have felt his absence. Eben is closely followed by class youngsters like Steph du Toit, Lood, Jacques du Plessis, Willemse and Lewies. Add to this impressive list, youngsters who have or are showing promise Ruan Botha, Ettienne Oosthuizen, Peet Marais, Jandre Marais, Bulbring, Quinn Roux, Jean Kleyn, Andries Ferreira, Carl Wegner, Franco Mostert, Reinier Bernado and Bresler. Flip showed last year that he belonged at test level, but has always had to live in the shadows of Bakkies and Victor. Jacques du Plessis has been the find of the season, a real hard man playing out of position at 7.


So we have: Etzebeth / Steph du Toit / Lood / Willemse / du Plessis / Flip / Lewies / Ruan Botha / P. Marais / J. Marais / Roux / Wegner / Kleyn / Bernado / Bulbring / Oosthiuzen / Bresler / Mostert / Ferreira



Looseforwards: Again, we have choices galore here and the art if finding the best combination moving forward. The incumbents are Vermeuelen, Alberts and Louw, but I suspect we have 3 better loosies than these three.......that's how healthy the position is here. Of the older players, Vermeulen, Deysel, Schalk, Alberts, Fourie, Daniel, Kankan, Louw, Stegman, J. Potgieter, D. Potgieter  and Brussouw still have plenty to offer......Brussouw in particular and thank goodness Meyer has woken up to this fact eventually.


There is some real class amongst the youngsters in Arno Botha, Kolisi, Carr, v/d Walt, Ross, Coetzee, CJ Stander, Labascagne , Rhodes, Hattingh, Kriel , Whiteley, Minnie, Elstadt, Cook, Wimpie v/d Walt, Mtembu, Mohoje, Fuzani, Prinsloo and Britz. Of course PSDT and Jacques du Plessis are options at 7 as well.


My choices: Coetzee / CJ Stander / Kolisi / Vermeulen / Brussouw / Elstadt / Arno Botha / Labascagne / v/d Walt



Given the abundance of talent, what a joy it must be to be Meyer right now - its just impossible to get it wrong





AO
Admit OneClub Pro389 posts
29 May 2014, 17:41
#2
29 May 2014, 17:41#2
 

  




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 May 2014, 22:10
#3
29 May 2014, 22:10#3
 Snapster please, your list of international quality players is too long. There are youngsters on the list not nearly ready for test rugby and Meyer obviously can't pick them. Then there are guys like Grant - please get a grip he is not test material these days. Kolisi - what a laugh.More seriously you think Coenie's transition to to tighthead has been a success!!
You are not giving a realistc picture.Give us the real test class players.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2014, 23:30
#4
29 May 2014, 23:30#4
Give me just 22 good men....you can't take depth to the bank.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 May 2014, 23:45
#5
29 May 2014, 23:45#5
Err Moz, 22 players won't cut it in the RWC.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 00:29
#6
30 May 2014, 00:29#6
I was thinking about next week but I take your point ....so maybe ten or so more. We don't, however, need a squad of 105.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2014, 00:32
#7
30 May 2014, 00:32#7
I just read the CJ Stander choice....bwaaaaaahahahahahaha. Has he got off the bench in Ballybunion or wherever he is playing?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 May 2014, 00:35
#8
30 May 2014, 00:35#8
Yes, 105 seems more like an army than a rugby squad. Maybe that's what Saffex had in mind, lol
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
30 May 2014, 02:20
#9
30 May 2014, 02:20#9
Another list of youngsters, many of which will not even make it as consistent starters at Super XV level. 
Some might not be physical enough to cope with the demands of senior rugby, others will bulk up and lose their attacking ability from speed of the mark or the ability to step. 
Others will just be donkeys will limited skill- that were only able to look good at the lower levels of the game due to being stronger than the kids they were playing against.
Then others will have have a multitude of weaknesses exposed at the higher level of the game, and not be up to standard for any number of reasons.
Judge them at SuperXV level first of all to talk about including them as depth.
Some of the medium age players that have played SuperXV have been average at best- and the only thing they have proved is that they are not Springbok material. Handy depth at SuperXV level untill a better replacement turns up, but nothing more.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
30 May 2014, 02:51
#10
30 May 2014, 02:51#10
Saff - good write-up. You definitely know the players. I think our depth this year is awesome - better than it has been in a long long time and a direct result of the older players leaving and creating opportunities for the youngsters to shine in S15. With the policy of selecting overseas players for the Boks the exodus is not an issue IMO. 
Obviously I differ with you on the final Bok selection at some positions but am in total agreement that Meyer has a wealth of options to choose from. The key point now as Moz often raises is to see which of these blokes are going to be difference making career Boks. 


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 May 2014, 09:47
#11
30 May 2014, 09:47#11
 
Good read, Stupid.

Enjoyed that!!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 11:28
#12
30 May 2014, 11:28#12
 I agree though that, barring injuries of an alarming proportions,(Bad player management - no central contracting) t here is great depth in most positions. But let's not get carried away like snapster and think Meyer could pick some of these guys.

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
30 May 2014, 12:52
#13
30 May 2014, 12:52#13
 Of the bottom 7 teams in the S15 Comp, SA has 4 (FOUR!) representatives!
"Our depth" = Our greatest myth!!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 May 2014, 13:08
#14
30 May 2014, 13:08#14

Hi Moola, I thought the title of this thread was a reference to the depth of the SA despair (can't find a decent fly half, can't develop their talented youngsters on the field due to injuries, etc).

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 May 2014, 13:11
#15
30 May 2014, 13:11#15
Beenkop, where did I say that we had to pick all those players - try catch a wake up or better still, try learning to read. Its about our depth you idiot.

Moz, may I suggest you do some research, after which you will find that CJ started in Munsters semi final Heineken Cup game against Toulon - owned again as usual!

You will also find that I gave my choices in bold, which narrows it down to 40ish
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 13:12
#16
30 May 2014, 13:12#16
 mooooo la youstill bleating away.Most of our prefessiuonal players are overseas due to the Rand being worth ameasly 17.5 to the pound.
Qwe have unbeleivable deapth but the NH, OZ and Japan are draining us taking advantage of the Rands extreme weaknes due to ANC incompetence and corruption.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 13:14
#17
30 May 2014, 13:14#17
 mooooo la you still bleating away.Most of our professional players are overseas due to the Rand being worth a measly 17.5 to the pound.
W e have unbelievable deapth but the NH, OZ and Japan are draining us taking advantage of the Rands extreme weaknes due to ANC incompetence and corruption.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
30 May 2014, 13:26
#18
30 May 2014, 13:26#18
 Hasbeeno, I recall a lot of NZ players also ply their trade in Europe and Japan but the ABs still have the DEPTH to put a good team out on the field and WITHOUT having to call on those overseas players!!Hasbeeno's argument once again shot to bits by Modest Moolaa!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 May 2014, 13:26
#19
30 May 2014, 13:26#19
Moola, the positioning of sides like the Stormers for instance has everything to do with injuries and a poor, poor coach. The Lions have very few stars on board, so their positioning on the table is about par. The Cheetahs have been a huge disappointment after finishing 6th last year......the same players that took them to 6th last year have not suddenly become shit this year.

The Bulls are marching up the table, so your take on them is short sighted........chances are they will be in the top 6 by the end of the comp
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 May 2014, 13:28
#20
30 May 2014, 13:28#20
Sharktwat, why dont you just do a copy and paste for us.......play to your strengths......for you know fuck all about SA rugby
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
30 May 2014, 13:30
#21
30 May 2014, 13:30#21
 JW, despair is right going on comments we see here daily! This site will be offering free counselling if the Boks don't get a win over the ABs this year and I think we both know who will be first one on the couch for therapy!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 13:37
#22
30 May 2014, 13:37#22
 Mooooo la so you have afew palyers overseas and you plunder Island talent.
We have I read somewhere over 300 professionlas overseas and 49 Boks. Imagine how strong ourt sides would be.Also The mighty Stromers barring injuries are a top 6 side. We should have 3 sides in top six. Moooo la's feeble arguments easily dismissed.
Next
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 13:40
#23
30 May 2014, 13:40#23
 As Bok coach, how could you possibly not select a world beating side from this - says ou snapster
Snapster please oak check what you wrote. Meyer can't possibly select from all those players.
You also need to wise up re Coenie. His scrumming has been very poor. Nothing sure about him making it unless his technique etc improves. Great player outside the scrum.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 May 2014, 13:48
#24
30 May 2014, 13:48#24
Beenkop, I take it English is not your first language? What part of Meyer selecting from that list do you not get........does it not say a world beating side.......a side comprises 15 players.......where did I say he needs to select them all.......geez how stupid are you huh?

As for Coenie at 3, you are speaking complete shit, his form in the scrums has been as good as any other 3's out there.......not bad for a prop without grunt locks behind him, for lets face it, the Cheetahs are a little thin in the lock department without Lood.

Beenkop, here is a suggestion.......if you dont know what you are talking about, rather do us all a favour and shut the fuck up
PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
31 May 2014, 03:12
#25
31 May 2014, 03:12#25
 SA depth is exceptional. As good or better than NZ especially in the forward department, from props to locks. This is why SA rugby is more dangerous than ever. NZ has depth to burn in the backs but lack in our front row and locks. This will be a key area for the SA to exploit. Like the Sharks who kick their territory then rumble it over the try line with a frontal assault, very effective and intelligent rugby. 
NZ are in for a year of close quarter fighting and will need to be faster and spread the SA defense if they want any chance of winning. Taking them head on could prove futile.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 12:58
#26
31 May 2014, 12:58#26
 Papa moaner I think Oz rugby is getting better. The Warts pack for example is a real pack. 
This years 4 Na tions is wide open
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 May 2014, 15:49
#27
31 May 2014, 15:49#27
Moolaa: according to recent evidence the bloke in question never got off the therapy sofa
.  please, not the "bent ref" thing again mumbled the therapist.
& the fair-minded kiwi said: "well at least the pink sofa matches his pink boots"
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 15:55
#28
31 May 2014, 15:55#28
 HahahahahhahaHAHA very funny in a bent way JW. May I remind you again the boots are red. You have pink on the brain for some reason! 
Also never confuse the therapist with the poor oak being councelled moooo la
That about straightens everything out I believe.

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