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FORUM / RUGBY /  Our second Bok side is better than Meyers

Our second Bok side is better than Meyers

Started by Saffolk 11 REPLIES234 VIEWS· 26 Sept 2014, 01:51
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2014, 01:51
#1
26 Sept 2014, 01:51#1

Our first side is:


15. Willie 14. JP 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Senatla 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. Vermeulen 8. Arno Botha


Second Bok side is:


15. Taute 14. K.v/Wyk 13. de Allende 12. Frans 11. Sithole 10. Pollard 9. Reinach 1. T. du Toit 2. Strauss 3. M.v/d Merwe 4. Lood 5. PSDT 6. Brussouw 7. Elstadt 8. CJ. Stander


Third Bok side is:


15. J.Kriel 14. Rhule 13. Hanekom 12. Esterhuizen 11. Hendricks 10. Lambie 9. de Klerk 1. Kitshoff 2. Cooper 3. Malherbe 4. J.du Plessis 5. Lewies 6. Kolisi 7. Labascagne 8. v/d Walt


He'll I even prefer the third

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Sept 2014, 04:47
#2
26 Sept 2014, 04:47#2
I started reading this and saw Coenie at tighthead in the first team. Realizing  I was reading nonsense, I stopped. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Sept 2014, 06:29
#3
26 Sept 2014, 06:29#3
 I do not agree with a lot of Dave's selections - but the fat is that I am also seriously troubled ny Meyer's squad selection.   He has like we have slipped badly this year insofatr as performance is cooncerned and a fter the latest fiasco a gainst Australia weare down in the grading as well.
Our team is not a patch on last year and all performances are down compared to alst year.   That problem is due tot the following:-
*   The fact that some players have gone backwards in form - eg De Villiers, Jannie du Plessis - this being evidenced in both the tests played thus far as well as  Super 15.   This problem is added to by the fact tha neither are in an age group where form - once lost - is ever recovered.   The other out-of-form player was BHismarck du Plessis - but there is still a psosibility that he would recver form.  
*    The fact that Meyer brought in or retained players that did not add any value to the squad - players like Bakkies Botha, Gurthro  Steenkamp and Victor Matfield.  If they were of additional benefit - it would have clearly shown in results achieved compared to last year - but it showed a downward slide in reuslts.
*    The fact that he should have got rid of Morne  Steyn - much earlier than he in fact did.  Morne showed serious signs of defects in the tests he did play and at times completely lost the plot.   He should ahve taken note that he was poor against the Welsh and made crucial errors when he came on for the Springboks against Argentina. The latter errors could easily have resulted in a draw a gainst Argentina in the pretoria test and a loss in the Salta test.   His persistence with S tey cost us the test in Australia.  
The above scenario makes for a team that does not perform on the level required.   It puts serious pressure on othr players as well affecting their personal performances as well.
Personally I am not suprised by the downward slide.   The players Meyer brought oin are all hangovers from his coaching days at Loftus and the 2007 WC squad.  Those players failed us in 2010 and 2011 and there is no chance that they would succceed three years later.


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
26 Sept 2014, 08:44
#4
26 Sept 2014, 08:44#4
Yes, it is probably better in the same way that you thought the World Side was better.

On paper:
World XV > Boks

On the rugby field:
World XV 17-43 Boks
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Sept 2014, 09:01
#5
26 Sept 2014, 09:01#5
 Pakie
With repect - the wporst thing to do is to look at one match and determine whethr there is a tendency inteam perofrmances - especially one which really was more a carnoival game and not a test.   The real problm is how the team perorms comparative to the persirmances over the past two seasons.   
Taking into account theat ther is a definite downward trend in performances - we are indeed in serious trouble.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Sept 2014, 09:01
#6
26 Sept 2014, 09:01#6
 Pakie
With repect - the worst thing to do is to look at one match and determine whethr there is a tendency inteam perforrmances - especially one which really was more a carniival game and not a test.   The real problm is how the team performs comparative to the performances over the past two seasons.   
Taking into account that thei r is a definite downward trend in performances - we are indeed in serious trouble.  

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
26 Sept 2014, 10:05
#7
26 Sept 2014, 10:05#7
Carnival game or not, there were a few people on this board who backed the World Side for a win because they looked good on paper. Rugby is not played on paper. The ABs will put 50 on Dave's second team.

And by the way, I'm not happy with all Meyer's selections either.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Sept 2014, 11:47
#8
26 Sept 2014, 11:47#8
 15. Willie 14. JP 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Senatla 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. Vermeulen 8. Arno Botha
JP is borderline- he lacks the pace needed for wing. JJ well you have to be joking - on the wing is a possibility!  Goosen and Hougard!! Much rather have Pollard and Reinach.
Bissie has gone off the boil. Leave him out for a while - Its Strauss.
Coenie - you have to be joking again. 
Habana and Senatla are possibilities
Arno Botha will have to prove he still has it. Its one of Willemse, Lood and Steph Du Toit to partner Etzebeth. 
Your selections leave much to be desired snapster!!!

3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
26 Sept 2014, 11:57
#9
26 Sept 2014, 11:57#9
 In Theory that is probably a supeior team. But in reality they are too green, and too inexpereinced. So currently tried and true takes precedence. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2014, 12:15
#10
26 Sept 2014, 12:15#10
3ku1.......sadly the tried and tested keep losing to NZ  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2014, 12:18
#11
26 Sept 2014, 12:18#11

Moffie, there has yet to be an issue with Coenie at 3, any take you have had on him is about as accurate as your take on Malherbe restoring some Bok credibility in the scrums against the Argies or you telling us Marcel v/d Merwe could not scrum.......tell that to the Kiwi loosehead.

 

But best of all your pick at 3 is Cilliers, yes Cilliers.......enough said, case closed.......you know f all about props.....................................hookers, locks, loosies, halfbacks, centres, wings or fullbacks......you get the picture?

 

Cilliers at 3......bwhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Sept 2014, 14:03
#12
26 Sept 2014, 14:03#12
 3ku1
The problem is the tried and tested are some of the pplyaers wh ose performances are sub-par.   Unlike Dave - I am not in favour of an overall change to teams - but rather to look at specific positions - where the tried and tested are letting the sdie down.   
The problem is that Meyer is running around.   He poprefers the older players with reputation - not ncessarily performance.   He selected Juan  Smith and played him against Argentina and he failed badly.   He has been fiddling around with Matfield and Bakkies Botha.  The latter was poor in all the tests he played in and Matfield has been pushed around by all and sundry - he lacks physicality and since his athletism is gone - he ois weakening the Tight 5.
I am a great admirer of Jean de Villiers - but he has been poor in the RC tests he played in and not worth much in  Super 15 this year either.   
So where are the key problem areas?   I would say in the center positions - where Meyer's selections are seriously problematic.   Then we have the scrummie issue - where Hougaard has been onsistently average and in some cases poor this year - th same as he was last year.   Then we have the lock partner for Etzebeth - neither of the two in the squad tomorrow actually -for different reasons are acceptable.   
I am also vry worried about Jannie du Plessis.   He lasts for about 3 to 4 scrums and then goes backwards fast.   Apparently not up tostandard anymore.   
At least Meyer got rid of the handicap at flyhalf - that is a vast improvement - but he is not getting support and the abckline is from an attacking perspective absolutely harmless.    
— END OF THREAD —

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