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FORUM / RUGBY /  Patrick Lambie - The Myth Continues

Patrick Lambie - The Myth Continues

Started by DezertFox34 REPLIES605 VIEWS· 17 Nov 2014, 16:28
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DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
17 Nov 2014, 16:28
#1
17 Nov 2014, 16:28#1

It could hardly be fathomed that such a player could be so heavily lauded after five seasons in which we are still awaiting that breakout game. At 38 tests, and a points average of 2.55, we certainly should be expecting more. After the embarrassingly impotent display against England, we instead hear praise for our all-Shark halfbacks , but what do the stats say?



Yes, it was am embarrassing display. Easily surpassing his flaccid efforts of 2012, or 2010 or on the 2013 EOYT. Meyer did a great disservice to the Springboks in not selecting Morné and rotating him with Pollard; particularly given that they are the only test quality fly-halves in the country. Yet, after the Ireland loss,  Meyer again buckled to the anti-Bulle mob and weakened the team. Whereas the Boks were dominant against Ireland, they were dominated by England. Our weak halfbacks were punctuated by weak defending from our centre pairing. Reinach was better than those four players, but not very constructive. He only highlighted the fact that he is a fast athlete, not a technically proficient scrumhalf. Definitely a step down from Hougaard. Back to topic, the fact that Lambie still receives praise is a disgrace. The fact that he has lasted five seasons without ever excelling at test or super rugby level is even more damning. South African fans are the most dishonest in all of sports. 

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
17 Nov 2014, 16:37
#2
17 Nov 2014, 16:37#2
 But Lestat, he did kick the winning TV Producer awarded penalty against the ABs above sea-level at Ellis Park
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
17 Nov 2014, 16:43
#3
17 Nov 2014, 16:43#3
Yes, he made a kick, but what else? After all these years of insisting he is the best attacking flyhalf of our day and age, it says that his fans can only to one kick in six years to try and justify him. How ironic! 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
17 Nov 2014, 16:50
#4
17 Nov 2014, 16:50#4

Yep, and when you do a little more research you will find that Lambie has only started in 13 tests, played a sub in 25 test matches.


The last time he started at 10 for South Africa was in 2012 during the November tour.


Upon further investigation you will find he has only started at 10 for SA in six test matches.


Starting player

Flyhalf 6 matches

Fullback 7 matches


Sub player

Flyhalf 11

Fullback 11

Wing 3




 

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
17 Nov 2014, 16:58
#5
17 Nov 2014, 16:58#5
... and see my post under Ring the Changes.  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
17 Nov 2014, 17:00
#6
17 Nov 2014, 17:00#6
Look at Morné's first four matches and you will see his impact - the first being off the bench where his try saving tackle saved the 1st Lions test. No Biltong, five years, 38 tests, that is enough time to make a statement. Good players don't take five years to deliver. And look at his starts at 10 for the Sharks, yet he has done nothing there either! Watching a has-been Butch make him look like a fool was too much. You are a perfect example of the bias in favour of Lambie. Every mistake has an excuse or is denied outright. Entire fables created to uphold the myth. Is an entire EOYT not enough? He was touted the best 10 in the country, a great runner and an excellent decision maker. Never has this been apparent going by on-field performance. Why? Either he is not very talented, and the fans are lying or the matches we've been watching didn't really happen. When all is said and done, the grim reality is that Lambie is not talented enough for test or super rugby. At the very peak of his abilities he is a passive player who goes through the motions. Not much unlike Olivier. But one was a Bull and the other a Shark, and that makes all the difference.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
17 Nov 2014, 17:04
#7
17 Nov 2014, 17:04#7

Lestat, explain to me how anyone makes a statement when Mo rne Steyn is stuck like glue to the ten jersey and Zane Kirchner is stuck like glue to the 15 jersey?


I will give you a prime example of an underated player throughout his career.


Remember Danie Rossouw?


Great rugby player, but he stood behind Bakkies Botha and Vicki his whole career, most of his tests were off the bench, now tell me he had to make a statement.


 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Nov 2014, 18:35
#8
18 Nov 2014, 18:35#8
 Lestat, what's your views on Jean?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
18 Nov 2014, 21:26
#9
18 Nov 2014, 21:26#9

biltongbek

Status: Squad member
Posts: 431 RE: Patrick Lambie - The Myth Continues
November 17, 2014, 17:04:10

Lestat, explain to me how anyone makes a statement when Morne Steyn is stuck like glue to the ten jersey and Zane Kirchner is stuck like glue to the 15 jersey?


I will give you a prime example of an underated player throughout his career.


Remember Danie Rossouw?


Great rugby player, but he stood behind Bakkies Botha and Vicki his whole career, most of his tests were off the bench, now tell me he had to make a statement.


Danie actually only "stood behind" Bakkies. They were always as much of a combo as  was Victor and Bakkies. It was actually Bakkies who was behind his move to Toulon. Why would he have moved there if Bakkies was always "keeping him out"?

You are 100% correct about Danie always being an underrated player, though. IMO, it was wrong to always only refer to the Bakkie/Victor combo when "the Bakkies/Danie/Victor combo" would actually have been nearer to the truth. Having said that, I think that Danie was probably rather under rated by the supporters. I doubt whether there were any of his coaches who ever under rated him.


GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
18 Nov 2014, 21:44
#10
18 Nov 2014, 21:44#10
 No myth at all ...just a pick of the bunch.

Pat was destined to succeed...successful at school...good at everything and very liked and showed leadership skills in a refined and educated enviroment...I believe he could prove himself...he has an angelic presence but there is huge strength and leadership abilities that that the common and roughneck doesn't understand and resents. A flyhalf that intelligently understands the game.

Most of you don't know this...I maintain with an insight that Patrick will surprise most of you...Yes Handre is a cata lyst and back up and a younger and a worthy no 10 but this is healthy...the one will push the other and will alternate creating the best flyhalf pool in the world.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Nov 2014, 22:16
#11
18 Nov 2014, 22:16#11
We're you his fag Chabal, in the English non English sense?  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Nov 2014, 22:19
#12
18 Nov 2014, 22:19#12
 Mozart onto his old tricks again - become personal the moment he encounters a solid argument.   The man is dilly - but then he rates Francpois Stey as a fkyhalf - so he must be dily. .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Nov 2014, 22:35
#13
18 Nov 2014, 22:35#13
Oom it's a little joke, but the words will just confuse you. Have another doppie. Chabal and I are fine. When I have issues it's mostly with dumb buggers like you.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Nov 2014, 09:09
#14
19 Nov 2014, 09:09#14
 Mozartron
The issue here has to do with a posting by Letsalbemorons - your close associate in the Fraternity of Morons on this site.  So as a fellow-moron why did you not support him in his idiocy?
After all your favourite flyhalfs all three this year has been Francois  Steyn - if that is not moronic nobody else would be.  Your second choice initiaally was Morne - nother moron selctio - but in April you saw Pollard and then said he is to play for the Springboks as from 2016.  Since then you have slightly changed your tune - to favoutr him - since the older two favourites are really poor and useles as flyhalfs.   So defend at least your fellow-morons point of view as to useless Morne. .    

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Nov 2014, 10:10
#15
19 Nov 2014, 10:10#15
 "There's lies, there's damn lies and then there's stats."
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
19 Nov 2014, 10:56
#16
19 Nov 2014, 10:56#16
 
Yep!!!! This is definitely Buggered!!

"Maak al die Bulle Bokke" ... anything less is unacceptable.

The name may have changed ... again ... but the horseshyte continues ... as usual.... isn't that so LeTwat?

Well at least one positive ... the useless Morne is no longer in the picture.



DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
20 Nov 2014, 18:38
#17
20 Nov 2014, 18:38#17
2 runs0 meters1 turnover0 defenders beaten0 clean breaks2/1 tackles
Hardly destiny fulfilling stuff. 
ST
stu5Rookie70 posts
20 Nov 2014, 18:45
#18
20 Nov 2014, 18:45#18
 So it must be another example of where HM is clueless.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Nov 2014, 19:08
#19
20 Nov 2014, 19:08#19
 Letsallbemorons
Lambie is a thinking player who knows what options to take.   We had a muyth for four years at flyhalf in the form of Morne Steyn - a myth that turned sour after three matches and was kept on for no reason whatsoever - a myth that assistthe opposition by losing matches by us.
If ever there was a bad myth it was that one.   But then the morons says Morne was good at goal-kicking nothing else mattered for them.   He was the worst flyhalf we ever played in that position - because he sold our backline down the drain in virtually all matches he played in.   
The AB's and other teams had no problem in dealing with Morne - standing too deep in the pocket - by the time he kicked balls the opposition wings, flyhalf  and full back was in position to collect the mostly aimless kicks and punish us badly by often enough counter-attacking or more accurate counter-kicking.   The opposition defenders ignored his existence and when he passed they go for the inside center - with three defenders virtually on top of him - the poor recipient can do nothing with the ball.   That was our Morne - as described during numerous discussions by NZ commentators after Pollard took over and they did not know what to expect from him.  That was part of the problems they had this year against the Springboks - with Morne the problems would have evaporated into thin air.   
As iillustrated by the Reinach try on Saturday, the opposition defenders do not know what to expect from Lambie either.   Lambie was and is ten times the flyhalf Morne was and will ever be.  That is why Stade Francais is tying to get out of their contract with Morne.

Dream on - we all like to see your ramblings.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Nov 2014, 19:16
#20
20 Nov 2014, 19:16#20
 Grans Steyn was a lot bigger disaster at 10, slower than Pienaar at 9. Pat is not the finished article yet, but he will do in the meantime. And we have Pollard as well. I'm afraid Morne's ship has sailed. We won't see him playing for the Boks while  Bambi and pollard are fit.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Nov 2014, 19:21
#21
20 Nov 2014, 19:21#21
 Draad
I suppose you are referring to Francois Steyn - but don't confirm  that - Mozart will have a seizure.  
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Nov 2014, 19:25
#22
20 Nov 2014, 19:25#22
 Mike, new phone, auto correct  is driving me insane. Wtf is a grans?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:04
#23
20 Nov 2014, 20:04#23
FFS Draad, Pat isn't the finished article? He played the whole 2013 s15 at flyhalf. How do we finish this guy.....apply three  coats of paint and a clear coat like a Bentley. This small chap can't run in 10 channel on a routine basis.....he can kick, he can pass, he may occasionally catch the opponents by surprise, but he can't gain routine yards.

The longer he plays the less impressive he gets.
I think he is a decent alternative to Willie as a defensive fullback. That's where it ends.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:09
#24
20 Nov 2014, 20:09#24
Mozart you for get he ran through four Aussies on his way to the tryline in Cape town. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:12
#25
20 Nov 2014, 20:12#25
No....that's why I said he can occasionally catch the opponents by surprise.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:13
#26
20 Nov 2014, 20:13#26
 Draad you see what happens if you say anythiong nas ty about Fransie - he goes dilly.
Now lets analyse it a bit:-
Lambie can kick and his kicks are accurate - Fransie can kick but does not know when to kick and  his kicks are mosty aimless
Lambie can pass and his poasses are accurate -  Fransie can pass, but his passes are often enough inaccurate and he also use skip passes tio cut out overlaps by his teammates
Lambie cannot gain routine yards - Fransie cannot gain that either because he has a serious pace problem.
Lambie can defend well in the channel -  Fransie had the worst defense stats for a flyhalf in Suuper 15.
But then Fransie was fairly accurate kicking at goal and he has the physique (mostly fat) - so he is Mozart's favourite flyhalf.  
Wtach out for what follows now.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:29
#27
20 Nov 2014, 20:29#27
 Mike, Fransie played 10 for the Boys back in Jake''s day. Maybe it will be different now, but I'm afraid it's too late for him. I agree with Moz that he has done well for the sharks at 10 this year.Moz, maybe he is a late bloomer (Pat). I also like him at 15, but not all players can perform in differentpositions,  in fact, few are able to. I think that was what spoiled Pat a bit. Pollard has also quite a bit to go before we can start to relax.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:34
#28
20 Nov 2014, 20:34#28
 We must not forget Morne didn't know what making yards was nor ever saw the gainline
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:41
#29
20 Nov 2014, 20:41#29
 Bool BB, Morne scored quite a few tries in his day...for a kicking 10 that is.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
20 Nov 2014, 20:53
#30
20 Nov 2014, 20:53#30
Yeah, that's true, I am just doing what Mozart is doing  
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
20 Nov 2014, 21:21
#31
20 Nov 2014, 21:21#31
 Lambie had a great season about 4/5 season ago, but really has not risen to the same standard since.
Is it due to the fact that he was sidelined so that Morne could play, or is it due to him having to play #15 for the Sharks (Plumtree) and Div (Springboks) plus sit on the bench for Lord knows how many tests.
I am sure it must be a combination of these situations plus  the odd injury.
Pity as he did impress me as a #10 years ago.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Nov 2014, 01:35
#32
21 Nov 2014, 01:35#32
BB I will post the Lambie/ Morne comparison you are looking for.....no need to thank me yet.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Nov 2014, 05:09
#33
21 Nov 2014, 05:09#33
 Lambie slapped you in the face  comprehensively and showed you up as foolish and useless in player evaluation - so the egg supply in the USA is under serious threat - it is all over Mozart.   Do you ever stop being an utter fool in rugby sense?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Nov 2014, 06:07
#34
21 Nov 2014, 06:07#34
Gosh that's frightening, if anybody has an intimate insight into how fools think it has to be you OOm. So what part of Lambie's one start slapped me.....his charged kick, his kick into touch in goal, his botched cross kick, his missed penalties or his zero metres gained? Huh?
The truth is he had a mediocre test saved by a drop kick and a chip kick. The rest is the typical hype we see in South African rugby. There may be even more after Italy, it won't mean much.
Lambie is not a bad rugby player, but neither is he a big talent. He has always struggled to impose himself over a series of matches....his performances tend to weaken over time. If he is given the nod over Pollard there is a big risk that will happen again. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Nov 2014, 08:58
#35
21 Nov 2014, 08:58#35
 Mozart
Has it never entered your bigotted mind that Lambie is a far b etter flyhalf than Morne Steyn.   The way you try and find only negatives about him is really amazing.   His boitchewd cross kick for instance is utter BS.  He trie a cross kick and it did not work out for the team - neither for the English - so what was bothched about that?   
This is amazing - everyone else gave him a good rating - but for the leader of the morons on the site and his faithful sidekick - Letsallbemorons - who calle dhis game a failure.  BS baffles brains here.
There is no way that anybody can regard you as an intelligent reader of game performances - your bias always comes first and  your rugby inellegence last.   
Now tell us again - what about Morne's Chargedown kick in the Argentina test in Pretoria - which you have not mentioned once in all your writings - that was OK was it not?  But Lambie made a charge down kick and you write books about it.   Then there was the kick straight into touch - but behind the goal line - another book and the fool is comparing that kick with the botch penalty kick of Morne.  In Morne's case excuses by the dozen and blame accorded to the rest of the team for not defending properly.   I say it again - what a fool we have here.    
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