Peas in a defensive Pod

What gives with our centres. We have seen JJ, Allende and Kriel fail defensively test after test.....mostly because they are on their heels rather than moving into the tackle. Kriel was on his heels when Smith beat him to score....Allende on his heels when He allowed Coles to heave out the long pass to Whiteley.
Why aren't these players moving forward into contact? My guess is because they have no defensive aggression, just a fear of failure.
Could this be a coaching thing? Perhaps, but nobody had to teach de Wet Barry to close down his opponent.....he instinctively wanted to knock him backwards.

JJ has never made any progress in this regard and I doubt Kriel or Allende will either. They are herbivores in a game of carnivores.

JJ is a wing, Kriel is a fullback. De Allende is showing no nous for the position, not even with regards to attack. We need specialists, not converts. The midfield is too difficult a technical position, especially for defense. Part of it can be coached, but if the player remains tentative or unable to read a situation quickly enough, they're not going to come round. 
We saw when Faf shut down the Irish and won us the test by dashing out of line and making a spot tackle how important an instant read of the situation and acting accordingly without hesitation is. If it was Kriel or De Allende in Faf's position, we would have been dead in the water. They just haven't shown the ability to make those decisions.

 Here we have the standard attack by Mozart on three players - JJ, De Allende and Kriel.  The worst center of the lot - with no attacking and defensive abilities - De Jongh - is not mentioned at all,   According to Mozart he was organising the defense on Saturday - but he forgot that t also means he as to make credible tackles.   With one exception his five tackles were poor and non-effective.  He missed three tackles badly.  When carrying a ball he is carried back by the defenders further than he gained in territory.   Poor passer of the ball as well.  Why mention the other three and not him?  His faithful supporter Pakie shares his opinions all the time - both are not credible contributors since they base their arguments on prejudice and other related rubbish.   

" they are on their heels" ..... spotted, Murray Mexted onna radio this morning voiced the same criticism . Btw. what exactly is Mr Stick's job or is he there in a learning capacity, like the few extra players selected for EOYTours .

with no attacking and defensive abilities
With one exception his five tackles were poor and non-effective.
When carrying a ball he is carried back by the defenders further than he gained in territory.
Poor passer of the ball as well.

Haha, now you're just dreaming up anything bad you can say about the player and throwing them into the pot. More vague claims with not a single fact or event to refer to to back them up. 
If you claim my arguments are based on "prejudice and other related rubbish", show it by countering my points with facts and evidence of your own. Otherwise you're just blustering.

 Hmmmmmmmm ... strange ... I thought De Jongh had the defensive lines in place ... ???
First he's the saviour of the Bok backline ... now we're sadly lacking defensively ... even with our new found world beater at 12. 
Very puzzling ... ??

  but why to mention JJ when his last bok game was almost 3 years ago and he's not even in the current frame?

while de Jongh is currently playing, he's at least as bad defender as those mentioned and we've seen him "fail defensively test after test"

De Jongh is no sort of answer. He's just no worse than the other options on tour. As I showed in another thread, his tackle success in all the tests he's played is 88% vs De Allende's 65%. So the "fail defensively test after test" claim is not supported by the numbers. 
So, CC, you expect a #12 to have the defensive lines in place around a 5m scrum between the scrumhalf and the flanker, where Perenara zoomed past your snoring blue eyed boy Jaco Kriel? To be responsible for his #13 sitting on his heels and being stepped? Should De Jongh also be telling the loosies around the ruck where to go so that Aaron Smith can stop finding acres of space around them? 
Come on, I'm sure you have a better appreciation of the game than your somewhat cynical comment up there would suggest.

Yep not a word about Jaco Kriel another pipe dream.
I mention JJ because he exhibited exactly the same defensive tendencies we see in Allende and Jesse Kriel. Look this is not something that magically happened on Saturday, Allende and Kriel were like this last year and in the Super competition. They are showing no ability to learn, nor did JJ and eventually he faded away.....so will these two, at least at centre. .that's the point of mentioning JJ.

 And the point of praising De Jongh for "organising the defense" is the type of tripe we have to put up with. The man is clueless and an absolute fraud.  

 I don't know 4 years ago,..... but last sat de Jongh's tackle account was

5 tackles made/ 3 missed

and he was weak on defense

 Three years ago actually ....and de Jongh made 8/missed 1 against Oz. So in his two tests combined he is 13 made/4 missed. In his two matches against the Bargies Allende the man he replaced made 3 tackles and missed 5....and did nothing to help organize the defence. We are way ahead with de Jongh even if most of us agree he isn't a permanent fix.

 "We are way ahead with de Jongh"

really?
de Jongh went completely unnoticed in attack, contributed zero, missed tackles and was weak on defense,....... calling RJ van Rensburg is a must,........ if Coetzee sticks with de Jongh will mean that he's as clueless as you are,....

actually his last test before this year was in November the 24th, 2012,... so 3 years and 10 months ago, far closer from 4 years than 3

 Oh ok so having been a dumb Allende fan, you are now a Janse fan. I was way back in May when he blew Serfontein in the weeds....but being more than one dimensional I did point out that his defence needed work. Here for example are his tackling stats from the semi against the Highlanders:
Rohan Janse van Rensburg22
Two tackles made ....two missed. Against the Saders he made 4 and missed 2, no better than de Jongh against the ABs.  Defence has to do with vision, positioning,  reactions and the physical act of tackling.
We have no way of knowing if he is ready, but it's certainly worth a try. In the meantime our centre defence was more effective with de Jongh instead of Allende.

These thread's are almost painful to read. We keep talking about who defended better, who did this and who did that! This one is marginally better than this one but not that one.Fact is this.1) De Jong is NOT Test material in ANY position.2) De Allende is NOT test material as a #12. Last year I was hopeful but NOT now.3) Jesse is NOT Test material as a #13, or any position other than possibly #15. Let have a look. We've got nothing to lose.4) Jantjies is CR*P and should be shot. Goosen to #10 with Morne on the bench( no other option available NOW)5) Goosen is NOT Test material at #15, yet to be looked at again at #10.6) Faf has regressed badly, BUT bullsh*t coaching/instruction and a terrible #10 is to blame. More time needed.
This would be my backline.#9 - Faf - Rudy (quota) bench#11 - Banana#10 - Goose - Morne bench (no other available)#12 - De Jong (Quota No one else) - Rohan JvR bench - Bring him on with 35min to go.#13 - Mapooo#14 - De Allende#15 - Jesse.
So this gives us a 5-3 split on the bench.Who gives a rats ass if we lose, cant see us doing ANY worse.

I have no faith in Goosen, Allende, Mapoe, Kriel and Jantjies......they aren't warriors. There are so few international level backs. So especially if we bomb against Oz at home I'd roll the dice on Willie back at 15, Janse at 12....Frans at 10. At least the 10/12 axis would have some physicality. Absolutely no idea who to try at 13 and right wing. But when Combrink comes back right wing should be fixed.
And Faf made a few defensive blunders against NZ, but he has dropped some of the strongest running forwards this season.....he can tackle. And he can break, why is he not using his running skills.

All of which suggests the one truly insoluble selection problem is 13.

Please let me be CLEAR.This is my best of a bad bunch and the SAD predicament we find ourselves in.We may as well utilize most that have been exposed to the current coaches and there LACK of vision and game plan, hence the reason I haven't looked at drafting in to many hasbeens.If I had it my way I would seriously consider the following, in the perfect world.
#9 - Faf - Rudy(Not necessarily a great fan, BUT none of us have really seen what he can, or can't do)
#10 Lambie - Goose - Du Plessis.
#12 Pollard/ Serfontein
#13 Rohan/ Mapoopoo/Venter
#15 Ruan Combrink/ Jesse Kriel.
Wings - Habana(to be phased out ASAP) De Allende - Willie( only if he gets his sh*t together) 

 This is wonderful - Mozart has no faith in certain players - but then I have no faith in his favourites either.    He is still trying to cover up on players like Louw, De Jongh, Morne Steyn, Alberts and the older the better players.  All of players like h above three played on Saturday for extended periods and all three produced one big zero,  so what else is to be expected from this stupedo?

Now lets see...in the AB game

Louw much better than Kriel
De Jongh far better than Allende
Morne better than Jantjies
Alberts much better than Mahoje
And you can add
Beast far better than Kitshoff
Strauss better than Marx
So there you have it 6 cases where the older players were better. Not that they were great mark you, but the newbies were such deer in the headlights they couldn't even perform basic functions like kicking off, guarding their side of the scrum and throwing balls into the lineouts.
For years selecting these flops has been obvious according to the Tokster, Dave and Hunch. Now we have and the new game of the day on every rugby site is finding replacements for them.

 This must be the worst crap the village idiot has ever posted.   Louw was crap and nowhere to be seen in all tests,   De Jongh was his normal self in tests (nothing on attack and nearly the same in defense), Jantjies was clueless and Morne just slightly less so, Alberts and Mohoje both produced nothing and Beast better than Kitshoff - all because on one scrum.   This member has such crooked and crazy ideas about rugby one has to question his sanity.   Of his better players only Mtawarira should be anywhere near the squad - the rest are continuous failures.     

No Tokkie..Louw, Alberts, deJongh, Morne and the Beast were not great. But they were better than Kriel, Mohoje, Allende, Jantjies and Kitshoff. Apart from Jantjies' goal kicking this quintet contributed absolutely nothing.
To me nobody expected too much of Mohoje and Allende. There were the few that thought Jantjies is a genius. But almost everybody thought Kriel and even in my case, thought Kitshoff would have a real impact. They haven't to date.....Kriel of course won't, he is too small. But Kitshoff needs to start showing us something in these 20 minute stints.

 Jamtjies is poor on test level and so is Steyn.   Steyn's defense is a horror story and he brings nothing to attacking play - same with Jantjies - so neither of the two are acceptable.   Steyn has a negative - aimless and donkey kicking - but Jantjies kicking is not much better.   As to De Jongh he is a weakling that brings nothing to attacking play and is a poor passer of balls as well.  He is normally a worse defender than De Allende and has been that for years.   De Allende brings more to attacking play - something Jantjies cannot do.  So your assessment is putrid.    For the rest Louw is no opensider - he is way to slow for that and he cannot be compared to Kriel.  Both have not been up to standard this year - but Kriel had very little playing time - so your assessment is not proven.        

 Jamtjies is poor on test level and so is Steyn.   Steyn's defense is a horror story and he brings nothing to attacking play - same with Jantjies - so neither of the two are acceptable.   Steyn has a negative - aimless and donkey kicking - but Jantjies kicking is not much better.   As to De Jongh he is a weakling that brings nothing to attacking play and is a poor passer of balls as well.  He is normally a worse defender than De Allende and has been that for years.   De Allende brings more to attacking play - something Jantjies cannot do.  So your assessment is putrid.    For the rest Louw is no opensider - he is way to slow for that and he cannot be compared to Kriel.  Both have not been up to standard this year - but Kriel had very little playing time - so your assessment is not proven.        

 What is proven is we are in deep trouble with the departure of our great WC 2007 squad....the remnants of which still ran the ABs close in the 2015 WC semi. Your new team is, what was the word you used....oh yes....'putrid'.

 Just as putrid the so-called players from 2007 were in 2014 and 2015.   The problem really started with Meyer and his selection of has beens,   Sure we are in trouble - because the present players have really very little experience to count on and need a lot of help and a logical game plan from the coach - which is not forthcoming,    I am afraid that the selection of some of the preset experienced players are even worse than some of the newbies.