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FORUM / RUGBY /  Peter Bills: ELVs Threaten Worldwide Split

Peter Bills: ELVs Threaten Worldwide Split

Started by Augenöffner12 REPLIES3,083 VIEWS· 25 Feb 2019, 13:01
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AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
25 Feb 2019, 13:01
#1
25 Feb 2019, 13:01#1

Will rugby union witness another seismic split in 2009, this time between the northern and southern hemispheres?

The threat lingers, unspoken at this time chiefly because most of the rugby men of the southern hemisphere have gone off to soak up the rays on the beaches of Camps Bay (Cape Town), Bondi (Sydney) and the 1000 mile beach stretching north of Auckland to Whangarei in New Zealand’s beautiful Bay of Islands.

Make no mistake, though, the southern hemisphere is waiting and watching with huge interest the outcome of deliberations into the trialled ELVs now being staged in the northern hemisphere season.

Australian Rugby Union Chief Executive John O’Neill might say some outrageous things at times, but the game is a fool if it fails to heed his words. O’Neill runs a sport surrounded by rivals – rugby league, Aussie Rules, basketball and swimming to mention just a few. Trying to make a quid or two among that sort of competition requires ingenuity, cunning and above all, a highly desirable product.

Entertainment, in case you forgot, became an essential requirement of rugby union the minute this sport opted to take the professional road. It meant it was entering the entertainment business and it needs to do just that, entertain.

No use demanding that it clings to all its old, traditional ways, like rolling mauls covering 35 metres and moving forwards about as slowly as some Allied advance on the Western Front in 1917. No good lamenting the abandoning of century-old ways and means. When you’re competing for the public’s sporting dollar, you gotta offer a product that people rush to buy.

John O’Neill is one of the few men who understands this implicitly. When you’re encircled by rivals all thrusting their hands out for the public’s cash, you know that your product must be lively, exciting, tough and unpredictable.

Under the new ELVs trialled in the southern hemisphere earlier this year, rugby moved much closer to the ethos of speed and entertainment. The game opened up significantly; there was greater movement, more running and the ball spent more time in play.

I know, I know; the critics slam it as headless chicken stuff. They also lambasted it as a so-called cheat’s charter. But both factors can be addressed. Sin binning from the start players killing the ball would erode that problem and as the new style settled, the headless chicken charge would become less justified.

Yet given the northern hemisphere’s palpable reluctance to move forward, there could be a huge split at the IRB conference to discuss the effects of the ELVs, this March or April. And for countries like Australia, a clear dilemma may arise. “We’re not going back to the old ways; under these ELVs, rugby can promote a better, more entertaining product” says O’Neill.

If Australia maintain that stance, New Zealand may go along with it, forcing South Africa into a quandary over whether to support their southern hemisphere rivals. Huge bad feeling would arise within SANZAR, if they didn’t.

That might split the whole game. For the fact is, with a worldwide recession raging, men like John O’Neill know well enough that there is precious little room for slack. If rugby is seen to turn its back on the faster game possible under the ELVs, income is likely to suffer in the southern hemisphere. Will countries like Australia, already heavily in debt, risk their whole financial future in the form of diminishing crowds and interest, by meekly accepting the dyed-in-the-wool attitudes of the northern hemisphere countries? I wonder.

Talk of a worldwide split might seem over dramatic. But then, when you’ve been down to Sydney and talked to people like O’Neill and listened to their difficulties in selling the game to a limited audience blessed with multiple sporting choices, you understand more precisely their predicament.

No-one is pretending that all the trialled new laws are magnificent. But in a professional sport, to turn your back on the future and the need to develop a product that entertains, risks the whole future health of the game. It may well be that the huge population numbers and traditions of the game in most northern hemisphere countries dictates rugby’s rulers in this part of the world can anticipate loyalty and ongoing support no matter what the entertainment level.

It isn’t like that in Australia and New Zealand, where they’re fighting to retain support, never mind find new followers. If the other IRB countries do not understand that completely and are unwilling to be amenable to change, then they’d better understand the dangers of a worldwide split are hugely enhanced. 

by TheIndependent

Oh dear Mike. How do you like your egg? Life must be so easy when one merely bleats whatever comes to mind. Easy until reality comes a knocking. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Feb 2019, 13:47
#2
25 Feb 2019, 13:47#2

What split can be anticipated by a newspaper report based on hearsay.   It is normal that new rules are either tested in the NH countries or the SH countries depending on the seasonal factors.   The outcome of potential new rules  are hen evaluated and discussed by World Rugby and then decided upon.   Why should that process suddenly become an international rugby crisis.

This type of thing is what can be classed as newspaper sensational reporting and even  fake news.   So why get  so exited  by a report like this?   LMAO  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
25 Feb 2019, 13:54
#3
25 Feb 2019, 13:54#3

Where were you Mike? This was a very well documented issue in 2008 and 2009. Fake news? Just eat your crow and spare yourself anymore shame. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Feb 2019, 14:08
#4
25 Feb 2019, 14:08#4

What the hell have a 2009 report to do with today.    Why did you  come up with the relevant BS  and fake news anyway,   Nothing happened - the changes were made and was successfully implemented by NZ by 2010 - by the NH clubs never until 2015 and by only the Lions and Cheetahs teams in SA - for the rest it was ignored by Meyer and Coetzee and only showed signs of life in 2018.

Anyway using your story on what proves to be a BS newspaper report of 2009 again prove that you were talking BS all along.   Silly Billly would be a very appropriate user name for you. LMAO.   

By the way - IF my auntie had balls she would have been my uncle.   This prove that you were using the ultimate IF in this case.  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
25 Feb 2019, 14:15
#5
25 Feb 2019, 14:15#5

Even by your standards, this is feeble. You are debunked on everything you said today. There was a rift between New Zealand, Australia and everyone else. Australia did indeed spearhead the drive for the unsuccessful rebranding of a watered down interpretation of the game.

And do note, this was documented in many places in various coutries. To pass this off a "fake news" is extraordinarily shortsighted and sloppy. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Feb 2019, 15:19
#6
25 Feb 2019, 15:19#6

Based on what - a fake newspaper report - which only ignoramuses would believe.  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
25 Feb 2019, 18:36
#7
25 Feb 2019, 18:36#7

Desperate stuff from Lügnerin. You had to be the contrarian, again. You never learn. Do some research before you rubbish something. I see you are retreating into your tortoise shell, but here's another quote: 

"You don't have to be Einstein to figure out which game is a far more impressive spectacle. "We're simply saying to England, Wales and Ireland - and to the IRB - give it a fair go. "To sit back and say 'no, we're not trialling them' is not in the best interests of the world game. "No one wants to see two games but unless there is a degree of reasonableness here (it could happen)." O'Neill has even warned that the southern hemisphere clubs could pull out of the World Cup if the laws aren't enforced - with the ELVs needed to be accepted by the end of 2009 to be used at the 2011 World Cup. "If we want rugby to continue to grow as a true international game second only to football, we've got to move away from these southern hemisphere-northern hemisphere battle lines," O'Neill said.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Feb 2019, 21:47
#8
25 Feb 2019, 21:47#8

Listen dimwit Silly Billy

Nothing happened as the newspaper claimed would happen.   What O'Neill said is the absolute truth and not a threat at all.   You must be brain-deficient to put an interpretation based on a fake news report as gospel to support your delusionary statements on the issue .  Making an utter fool  of yourself is simply BS.     

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
25 Feb 2019, 22:00
#9
25 Feb 2019, 22:00#9
Mike, I gave you enough credit to assume you could follow this very basic thread. I was proven wrong. You couldn't be more lost if you fell into a black hole . 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Feb 2019, 00:03
#10
26 Feb 2019, 00:03#10

No Silly Billy

You claimed elsewhere that I was wrong in dealing with the impact of the 2008 rule changes when you came up with how the NH teams came up with new inventions iro rugby.   Fact is there is no evidence of any such in all the games I watched NH teams over the past year,   All they did was to follow examples set before 2015.   

When none of the NH teams made the WC semi's in 2015 they panicked and started implementing changes to their game plan and used SH coaches and players to help them.   Those are facts.   

You came up with this thread to support your nonsensical statements and somehow prove that the rule changes of 2008 was not supported by the NH unions and a newspaper reporter even  wrote about a potential split in World Rugby.   It was obviously BS dreamed up by a newspaper reporter and swallowed wholesale by you.   That was the silliest BS I have seen for years but you have been equally silly in the past.

Fact is the NH teams were totally wrong in not implementing the rule changes until they were shocked into reality in the  2015 WC.   No silly billy argument would counter that.  .     

 

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Feb 2019, 00:24
#11
26 Feb 2019, 00:24#11

Ireland and Wales have had a culture of enterprising backplay for decades. England had the best backline under Woodward. They began working that back into their game under Johnson. Lancaster didn't mimic the SH. He was heavily influenced by rugby league. Scotland were the nation that lagged behind the times. Where is their imitation of the SH though? Show me. France have had a culture for attacking rugby for decades. Where have they imitated the SH Wendyball? The fact of the matter is that none of the NH sides play powder-puff SH ball. You were thus wrong. 

You say it's a fact that the NH sides panicked after the 2015 WC. Show me. Jones isn't doing things that our SH sides are doing. Who else is play Wendyball? Show me where this factual connection can be proven. 

So, direct quotes from various heads of unions and figures within the IRB don't amount to any kind of proof. Yet your unsubstantiated waffle about the NH sides panicking after the WC is a fact? 

Just admit it, you are a highly disagreeable person and took a contrary position at the behest of another emotional knee-jerk response. You were wrong. You could have just admit that initially. No. Not Mike. You had to go the extra mile and throw some mud. The forum equivalent of a midget playing the hard man in a Hell's Angels bar. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Feb 2019, 07:50
#12
26 Feb 2019, 07:50#12

BS in buckets again - Silly Billy.  If they had what you claim they did - why not use it in the WC games and why were they poor in the 2015 WC.   That kind of statement is on par with what you generally write on rugby issues - total hot air.  

And the languishing Scotland was in the 2015 quarterfinals and nearly beat the Aussies,   

Do you ever think before writing the tripe you do on site?   Why are you always writing things that are never supported by facts on site?   Why claiming that the NH teams did not support the new LVE's if they were leaders on the issue as claimed by you and then quote a sham and fake news article to prove your BS?   

No Silly Billy - fact is that the NH teams actually supported the new ELV's after the trial period and there was no threatened "split" in World Rugby.    Why did  the English panicked and fired Lancaster and replaced him with Jones after 2015?   No  the enterprising backline play was a figment of your imagination and there was a need - even for UK and Irish rugby to improve their game plans, but it took 7 years to really hit home.

So the real issue was to get more SH players on board and for the SH-orientated coaches to be appointed or properly used - eg  Gatland, Schmidt, Jones, Rennie (at Glasgow) and Ackerman (at Gloucester).   Jones even got Mitchell as Assistant and Ireland used Plumtree in that role  as well.

Facts always beat fiction in rugby matters and all you ever come up with is fiction.              

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
26 Feb 2019, 08:51
#13
26 Feb 2019, 08:51#13

Oh dear ... has Poepsie swallowed a bit of fake news ... is Poepol trying to pass it on as fact .. ?

Told ya ... he's led by his nose ... the media conjures something and Poepol believes it.

Well .. please tell me when the above article was published? Was it perhaps in 2008 ... 11 years ago ... ??

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaa!!!\

It just doesn't end ... one idiotic posts after another ...


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