Pierre Spies show pony?

For years I have been a Spies fan and I have on countless occasions defended him, but even I am starting to question certain facets of his game. His defence just is not good enough for a loose forward. I assumed that this area of obvious weakness woul have been identified and rectified by his coaches, yet he is still getting the basics of tackling wrong. The stuff they teach school children about how to tackle seems to be missing in Spies. It is almost as though he feels that because he is very strong physically, that the basic principles do not apply to him, but as a result of his lack of basic techniques, he misses countless tackles. Now I don't expect him to become Schalk Burger or Heinrich Brussouw, but after so many years at this level, he should have corrected this obvious weakness. With ball in hand he is still very good, even though 88kg Joe Pietersen managed to tackle him all by himself, he is still a powerhouse in this facet of the game. We (The Bulls and the Boks) don't need another lazy Matfield type player that excells in one area and is completely lacking in others.

Work harder in the loose and learn to defend boytjie!!

Excellent post Bluebok.

I suppose with Spies one expected so much and an ordinary career has ensued. Best number 8 at the moment is Vermulen.

Loved the comment re matfield as it sums him up to a tee!  Hahahhahahaha some folk wont like their hero being criticised.

OK Spies might not be the most Physical nr 8 we have (clearly) However he has pace aplenty, and so far this season has been far better than last season for him, Hell he was pathetic last year. But still I can understand how even Bulls supporters are starting to lose faith in him Like most of us did last year. This year we will have to wait and see, he hasn't done everything right, but he also has been far better than last year. Duane I agree is our most Physical and Bruising Nr 8 however a Nr 8 needs to also be fast enough to run a cross defence line which Duane isn't. So If you pick him, you need to pick a Fast Flank to run that defensive line. which works nice for the stormers as they have both Koster and Kolisi who have pace. So If they play Duane and Koster they rather pick Duane at 7 so they can use the pace of Koster off the back of the scrum. Don't make a mistake i love the way Duane plays, however i think he is a bit too slow for nr 8.

Yeah Beeno, there was nothing that irritated me more than Matfield camping in the backline hoping for some glory. And there were quite a few occasions were he wasn't even any good in the line-outs too. Coming back to Spies, he is an absolute pleasure to watch when he has a little space and don't get me wrong, he is an attacking weapon, but his defence is not even average, its poor. And just watch him in the next game, he doesn't even attempt to steal the ball in a ruck situation, he just hovers around the fringes. He really needs to pull his weight in the tight stuff. I like him, and he is a very clean player and from the look of things, not a bad captain, but he needs to come to the party and not leave all the hard work to Chilli and whoever is playing 6 and 7.

Ek your theor ysounds plausible but of course does not fit the facts. LAst year the Stormers lose trio had Burger, Vermulen and Louw. Not a fast loose trio but still the Stormers were the best defensive unit.

My Bok loose trio would be Burger, Vermulen and Elstadt. Knock them for a six then bring on the pacy players latter perhaps.

I don't know of another player who offered so much and delivered so little.

Was it that he does not have the heart of  a forward or was it because he lost speed when he bulked up or was it the illness he had.

But as has been rightly said he has played  bit better this year so we shall see. Fact is Spies cannot any longer be thought of as an automatic selection for the Boks.

Beeno I don't believe he's been the same same player prior to his illness.

Agree. Seldom has one seen a player who had all the hallmarks of greatness. Now he is is okay but nothing too special. Wonder what a guy like Meyer thinks of it.

Spies added nothing of value to our RWC  effort. As for his power, guys like Andy Powell have tossed him around like a rag doll....and remember that Irish lock running right through him. He tackles like Frankenstein , two arms straight out in front of him and a very upright body position.

Spies will disappear in any tough test we play....but may look good if we dominate. We can't afford to delude ourselves any longer.

 I think you guys are abit harsh on Spies! Opposition players know that on attack against Spies, go low - because of his height it is abit hard to tackle dwarfs such as O'Connor and Frodo Cruden! He either overtackles and they go under his armpits and they step him when he stoops!

My take on Spies is that he has improved this season and is trying to lead from the front since taking over the captaincy at the Bulls. As most of you agree, he still has some defensive issues, and I think its the basics that he's getting wrong. I am sure Meyer and whoever the defensive Guru is, will work with him on this shortcoming, but I don't see anybody else who's as explosive and powerful as him on attack. Duane is great on defense but lacks the skills and pace of Spies on attack.

We might actually have a serious problem at eight if we can't fix Spies up. Other options are to bring Schalk in at eight. Kanko has failed at test level, so there is no one else to use. If it was up to me, I would go for Brussouw at 6, Schalk @ 7, and Spies at 8.

 For me Spies and even Kankowski are the most frustrating players to watch. With ball in hand lesser defenders they are absolutely devestating. Kanko is glory boy and I have never ever seen him pass. Spies for me needs to catch the ball first, I have seen him so many times drop the ball that I lost count. Then there is that matter of passing the ball and putting your players in space. He should shape his game on someo the great loosies from recent years. I remember Jerry Collins had fantastic size and pace but knew how to offload in the tackle, not once have I seen Spies offload in a tackle. That is why I think Joe Van Niekerk was so fantastic for the boks, I really think we have gone backward in how we see our 8's. I think Koster is the type of 8 we need. Strong, fast, tackles well and has a great ball skills.

Someone around here has also said the Spies "never off-loads" and that Willem Alberts does it "all the time"..................... and then he saw the stats.

 a good no 8 must be able to make a couple of yards off the back of the scrum/ruck against a set defense. Alberts looks to be a guy who could be turned into a good one.

 Spies was good on Saturday, great break leading to that try, it was the Spies of old. Vermeulen impressed me as well. My Bok loose trio would be 6. Brussouw 7. Vermeulen 8. Spies