Pieter Spiere vs Pieter Steph

It's interesting to see the changes two generations on. Piet Spiere, Bok tighthead of the early sixties probably weighed about  100kgs and stood maybe 6 feet. Steph even at his likely weight of about 110kgs is considerably heavier and much taller. The genes have obviously taken a different twist here....but generational growth plays a big part as well.

That said Spiere was the scrumming monster of his day. He destroyed Wilson Whineray and the NZ pack in 1960 and then ran amok among the pasty looseheads of Mud Island. Only the French gave him a challenge.

Spiere's party trick was to lift a 15 stone man off the ground with his neck....those farmers were tough.

Young Steff is clearly a very confident young chap.....and talented. In a few years we'll be able to assess his real potential. But it would be nice if there is another du Toit in our future.

Mozart

According to Wikipedia - Piet Spier was 6'1" and he weighed 95 kg.   That was big for a player those days - now even scrummies are taller and weighs more.    In other words his grandson is 23 kilos heavier than granddad - show you what is happening in a mere 2 generations.

I was told that the tallest Springbok in 1938 - regarded as a giant by the New Zealanders was in fact the same height as Piet Spiere.

Over the past 60 years children seems to grow bigger and stronger.   

Anyway - I am sure young Pieter-Steph has it in his blood to make a great Springbok and I hope he succeeds.   The Du Toits are tough buggers.

How many more times does it need to be stated that the lad weighs 117kg and is 2m tall, or are these websites just making it up?

Imodium and beer for a few days could produce 118 kgs. His natural weight is closer to 110kgs.

Bullshit, says who. The kid is 2m tall and big, google the kid and check his images, he is a big muscular lad and at 19 has some growing to do. The Junior WC site had him at 115kg, the Media Guide had him at 117kg. A big talented guy going places. The sooner he partners Etzebeth as a Bok the better. If Bekker crumbles again then get this kid on board. He would def be my bench lock for the Boks - awesome talent. As impressive as Eztebeth was for the Baby Boks and the same size at the time

Yawn.

Yeah your 110kg is a yawn - or bullshit more like it - you do have a history of making things up as you go. Yeah really small guy!

What does that prove?

That he is no beanpole as you called him

Evander Holyfield had a similar build and he weighed 95kgs. You can tell zippo from this picture....is it hanging over your dining room table?

Wow where did Holyfield come from? Good one Moz, Holyfield was all of 1.89m, this kid is 2m for a start. What that picture tells me is that he is clearly no beanpole - that would be Albert v/d Bergh. That picture tells me he is a solid lump.

No need to hang the picture anywhere, it was for your benefit - just proving a point.

Mozart

I differ from you about Du Toits build and weight.   He is 2m tall and I saw that when he walked off the field after injury - he looked broad as well - not build out of proportion.   He is no beanpole and definitely not 110 kgs. 

Saffex get a pic of this guy in shorts only - then we can really compare notes.    Maybe also one of Mattfield as well - then we can see how he compares with Mattfield - not that Mattfield ever went for the hard stuff - he was standing around in the backline too much.     

Excellent observation Mike re wee matfield. Matfield has completely fooled Dr Mozzzz and snapster all these years despite my trying explain to them what a pap "lock" the 107 kg string bean was. Snapster still is hallucinating that matfield was 115 kg - he just wont face up to reality.

As for Du Toit please allow this guy time to prepare for higher honours. Play him off the bench in the super 15 next year - see how he goes and move on from there.

Any talk of playing him for the Boks is not sound thinking. On reflection its not  time to take him on tour at end of year unless its for the ride really. He is a great young talent - unusual in that he is big and has real pace for his size. It is possible that he may even be a 7 & in the making but we already have young Elstadt.

He must be managed sensibly and not ruined by rushing him like snapster is unwisely suggesting. I trust Meyer will get this one right.

It is interesting to note here though that even as Piet spiere was a large man for the times that he played in, his nickname did not come from his bulk, rather from his power. He was naturally strong. the most powerfull scrumager of his time and not necceserily the biggest.

The natural strenght can be gentic and yes If Klein spiere is manged well by the time he turns 23 or 24 he will be a monster. That is if he got those genes.

Beeno - there is no argument about Matfield.  He was 6'6,5" tall and weighed 110 kgs.   After stopping to play - his weight came down to 107kgs - and I suspect he was really that weight all along.   That is 3,5" shorter than young Du Toit and the latter is 7kgs heavier.   Moz is wrong - he does not weigh 110 kgs _ I dpo not know where he got that info from.  

Young Pieter Steh's buil is not out of proportion.   A two meter tall person weighing 110kgs would look more like a beanpole than Du toit is looking.    He would still nulk up over the enxt two years and end up at about 120kgs.  

Yeah great logic Mike....but you never saw Matfield being knockled back like du Toit was this weekend. Handsome is as handsome does. Victor was a man to be counted....du Toit is still a kid. He may eventually become  a man....or like Sapps last "great" find, Flip Flop, become a zero.

Knocked back by two players at once - FACT

Next you will be telling us Matfield would have withstood Dewald and Jacques Potgieter at once - good one Moz, try get your facts straight, it helps.

When it was one on one for Steph du Toit, he ran straight through Morne and later Werner Kruger - FACT

At no point did Steph du Toit ever go backwards he only ever went down when hit by two players at once, which happened twice and once when D Potgieter tackled him low, when he was on the charge - FACT

Mozart

Maybe my remark is a bit negative insofar as Matfield is concerned - but Mattfield was to my mind not living p to the great name he had in public.   Mattfield rarely went into maul situations and his main attribue according to Meyer was his value  in line outs.     In that respect he was good - but it was his play in tight situations where to my mind he was a bit lacking.   He rarely was to be found fighting for the ball in maul situations.

Obviously a person cannot judge anyone on Junior Rugby or on what match in Super 15 - in which jhe actually played only tfor 36 minutes.   I did notice that Du Toit lacks expereience - but he definitely did not stand around in the backline - when the hard labour was required,   He was in the middle of it and playing against the much more expereienced Bulls locks - he did remarkably well.

I said eleswhere that I think Du Toit should go through a thorough preparatory period - he should not be rushed into anything.   He has the physique to play top class rugby in the lock or even loose forward capacity - but whislt he is heavy and huge - he is also fast in running.    So let them play him in Super 15 for a year and then see how he performs.  I am sure that he would themn prove his worth or otherwise and should he passes - I am sure he would be a real star.

Insofar as Flip is concerned - he has all the attributes - but speed - but he never really made it to the Springboks.   He is just not suited for playing on that level.   I have never supportd his inclusion in the Springbok team - if others have, they were wrong.    

Mike pure rubbish regarding Flip, he is a quality player that has lived in the shadow of Bakkies, he is better than the majority of first choice test locks out there. A big lad, who puts in the grunt and hard work. Since when did a lock need speed - that is a laugh.

Yeah well you were always a Flip Flop man.....and now he's what....too old? They are either great youngsters or too old in your world. Wheras the fact is 95 % of these youing guys don't make it.

Saffex

I was not talking about Flip on Super 15 level.  He is good enough there - but if a youngster like Du Toit can outplay him - then there may even be question marks on that level.   However, on international level he showed nothing and is unlikely to prove himself on that level.

Well, as a Bulls supporter, I don't rate Flip, even at super rugby level. Gives away way too many penalties, and is really just nothing special in my opinion. Not rubbish, just run of the mill lock. Du Toit has all the physical attributes, does he have the talent? Only time will tell.

Moz when did I say Flip was too old.

Wrong Mike, Flip had a good game against the Sharks and I have always rated him at test level. Good phyisical player who gives it his all and stand backs for no-one - a hard nut and much needed in the engine room.

Sadly for Flip, he was always behind Bakkies and now Etzebeth has come along, Etzebeth is a freak and will prove even better than Bakkies.

Mike you are doing much better than poor snapster and Dr Moz. However once again I must stress that the bulle website and the official Boks website give him at 108 kg and then wee matfield himself revealed he was only 107 kg.

The reports were he had now dropped to 102/103 kg s and was too light to make a comeback. He was not 110 kg. but 107 kg and at his hight a stringbean. Consequently he could not cut it doing a proper locks work and played a lot in the backline.

Agreed matfield was useful in the ineouts but even there what he actually achieved was blown out of proportion. He could not drive a ball up and was driven backwards frequently when making a tackle even against backs!! 

Du Toit is a genuine lock propect - matfield was NEVER a lock.

Beeno correct to a fault!

Spot on Bluebok.

Blue, if you watched the Baby Boks in action, you will have noticed the kid has plenty of talent, enough talent to play as a flank, despite his size. This kid is the real deal. Just imagine him and Etzebeth as lock pair in years to come. Both are stills kids who will get bigger, stronger and better - we are well placed at lock with these two and the number of other young locks coming through

Precisely ......"both are still kids". Let's play the men now and the kids when they become men.....if they are still the best option among today's younger brigade.

Well Etzebeth is our best lock and has shown he belongs at the highest level. Bekker should partner him if he can keep his body together. I would have Steph du Toit on the bench.

The only experienced in terms of age who merit consideration are Flip and Jeandre Kruger. I prefer the 3 above