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FORUM / RUGBY /  Pieter Steff Du Toit ...

Pieter Steff Du Toit ...

Started by CleanCut37 REPLIES1,090 VIEWS· 12 Dec 2018, 08:43
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CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Dec 2018, 08:43
#1
12 Dec 2018, 08:43#1

... receives the award for "Best Defender" the year 2018  ...

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaa!!!

Mozart ... any comment?

andddddddddddddddd .... Malcolm Marx takes the "Players Player" award for 2018 ...

... and to think that both players are players you never rated ...   they would never mount to anything ... right?


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 09:27
#2
12 Dec 2018, 09:27#2

CC

It is time to go back to the history of Mozart.   His war against Du Toit started ibn 2013 and became fierce in 2014 when Meyer persuaded Matfield to start playing again.   For years now Mozart has been starting threads - at times twice a week  - all to attack Du Toit.

He would invent reasons why Du Toit is not a test player and his latest is his  claim that Du Toit is too poor to be a lock and he is not a loosie either.   Mozart claimed that Du Toit can only perform for 20 minutes in any game he played in and at best should be on the bench.

One can only attribute his constant attacks on Du Toit are based on his dislike originating when he was a threat to the selection of Matfield in 2014 and that was enough for perpetual hatred.

As to Marx - he and some of his cronies were the members who praised Meyer for not selecting any Lions players for the 2015 WC squad.  Marx were one of the players he disliked at that time.   In 2015 he was still beating the Bismarck and Strauss drum and he was against Marx as recently as in 2017.   

So the change came gradually in his approach to  Marx and then reached boiling point when he blamed Du Toit for the line-out throw problems in the English test when Marx claimed he himself was responsible for the throw-in problems.   

I enjoy the jokes Mozart and co write on site - it is so ridiculous that one can only laugh at them.     

        

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
12 Dec 2018, 12:31
#3
12 Dec 2018, 12:31#3

Steph made 127 tackles, missing 31. He had the highest missed tackle rate of all Bok players. This doesn't account for clean breaks conceded, of which I have documented close to 30 - these were picked up passively when reviewing other players, there may be more. He had some flawless tests, some near to flawless, and then had some very patchy to poor games. His best test was the home Aussie win. He had about 7 or so games where his mobility was exposed, particularly in the RC and against France. There isn't much of an argument to be had here, he has some defensive issues. rushing out of the line was largely iffy, it was highly effective in two tests. 

Our most efficient defender was Whiteley. The real heroes seldom receive the plaudits. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 14:36
#4
12 Dec 2018, 14:36#4

Where did you get that from AO.   In the tests where eh played together with Mostert in the same tests he never missed 31 tackles - he missed 24 and he made more tackles than Mostert did.   Are you cooking again.  These figures were discussed a hell of a lot on site and there  where a figure given by you at the time of  171 tackles made and 31 missed - not 142 tackles made and 31 missed.    That is why one can NEVER trust you - you do not mind lying on site. 

The figures were mentioned previously in a lot of detail.  

Your documenting is total BS .   

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Dec 2018, 14:53
#5
12 Dec 2018, 14:53#5

Mike ... I'm curious ... when a person tells you that Oupa Mohoje is a much better openside flank than Richard McCaw ... even though he was selected on the blindside ... do you think that any info coming from such a person should be trusted as fact?

When the same fool speaks highly of the Nik Naks man as being a better 15 than Israel Folau ... do you honestly think that we should pay attention or take his rantings seriously?

... and then when the same wanker tells you that Morne Steyn is the greatest gift in history to the 10 jersey ... and that Dan "the man" Carter was nothing in comparison?

I ask you again ... why are you bothering to respond to his idiocy?

One moment he's telling us how useless Malherbe is ... the next he's talking Malherbe up ... telling us that he's best 3 we have ... and that he's part of a world dominating front row.

He even told us that the Boks were better under Coetzee than they were under Rassie ...

LOL!!!!

Clearly the  man doesn't know his arse from his elbow ... he has no idea which bullshit story to stick with ... perhaps there are just to many for him to remember ... hopping and changing his point of view seems to be the order of the day with him.   

Laugh him off for the clown he is.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2018, 15:19
#6
12 Dec 2018, 15:19#6
Yep and Luke Watson won player's player of the year. This is exactly what I would have predicted, hype has it's consequences. Fools believe it. But tell me Carbuncle .....did he also have 'huge upper body strength'? LMAOFY&Y!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 15:30
#7
12 Dec 2018, 15:30#7

No Mozart

It is not hype propping up Du Toit like you and your supporters on site claim.   Hype can work only if performance requirements are met. 

Your story about Watson is mythical,    Watson was not supported by a major part of the media and that makes the hype story a myth,   He was supported by some embers on site, but most said he was not a test level.   That is not hype anyway.

Most rugby supporters are well-informed about rugby issues and can see what is happening - only a minority like you and your confreres have other reasons not relating to rugby performance for attacking Du Toit on site.      


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Dec 2018, 15:36
#8
12 Dec 2018, 15:36#8

Aaah ... finished with your group poop are you ... ?

I take it you have a fresh diaper on ... right?

Watson was the best 6 at that stage in time ... he wasn't selected as a Bok because nobody liked him ... politics ... but that didn't change the fact that he was the best 6 in the country ... by some way ... in fact, he was the best rugby player in the country and so thought all those who played with him ... and against him ... hence the award.

Nothing you can do will ever change that, Faggot.

Yes ... he had tremendous upper body strength ... as well as hand strength.

This is your cue, Poepol. Come tell us once again how wonderful Oupa was as a flank ... much better than McCaw ... right?

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaa!!


 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2018, 15:56
#9
12 Dec 2018, 15:56#9
Luke Watson was rabidly supported by Urinal and Dave among others....and massively hyped by the same media that is now hyping Stephanie. He was undoubtedly better this year....but Rassie also assigned him as hard yards runner and first tackler. So he was very apparent and constantly focused on by the cameras. He did his defensive duties competently, but no more competently than Mostert....and never in open field. As a runner he was secure, but largely toothless and died with the ball almost every time. His lineout work was at best competent and his lineout captaincy when Marx was imploding, was naive. After almost 5 years Stephanie is finally an international player as he gets to his best years.....but he remains an awkward flank and an unconvincing lock.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2018, 15:58
#10
12 Dec 2018, 15:58#10
See there you go Carbuncle thought Watson was the best 6 in the country....hype gets them every time. Hence he got the award.....nothing I can do can ever change that you say......hmmm....read this: 'Due to his good form in 2006, Watson was nominated for awards as the Players' Player of the Year, Super 14 Player of the Year, and Currie Cup Player of the Year. Rugby journalist Mark Keohane reported that on the morning of Monday 30 October 2006 Watson had been confirmed as the winner. But the decision was overturned later the same day and awarded to Free State loose forward Kabamba Floors. Players' Association chair Piet Heymans said that Floors had won by 8 votes when voting closed at 5pm on Monday. Heymans' assertion was placed in doubt when SARU revealed that the vote had actually been tied, and that SARU president Oregan Hoskins had cast the deciding vote in favour of Floors to break the deadlock.' You guys who never check their facts are such easy pickings.....beaten by that rugby giant Kabama Floors.....hahahaha. Watson lived off the turnover ball created for him by the massive work of Schalk Burger.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 16:01
#11
12 Dec 2018, 16:01#11

Mozart

I expect nothing but BS from AO - but really something better than BS from you.   Why do you let your prejudice getting the better when evidence suggest you are on thin ice in this case?      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2018, 16:05
#12
12 Dec 2018, 16:05#12
Are your older relatives still smelling Carbuncle?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Dec 2018, 16:18
#13
12 Dec 2018, 16:18#13

I see you want to engage me in a little back and forth ... why? You aren't going to convince me of anything.

I have watched him all season long. I have watched him shine at 7 when no one else could. I've seen him totally committed to the cause ... giving his best for the coach ... no matter what the task assigned to him ... body and soul ... heart and mind ... standing head and shoulders above everyone else ... at lock ... as well as on the blindside flank ... sobbing when they defeated the All Blacks on their home ground. 

He is just simply a superb rugby player ... highly talented ... and fully deserving of his award and his spot in the Bok run on side. He should in fact have been awarded the players player of the year. 

Your prejudice toward him is directed more at Mike than based on fact ... we all know this ... so please, don't try and sell me the same bullshit story you've sold Mike.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 16:22
#14
12 Dec 2018, 16:22#14

CC

Mozart tried to sell me the BS story - but I did not buy it.   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2018, 16:48
#15
12 Dec 2018, 16:48#15
So that little bawling episode did it for you?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 17:37
#16
12 Dec 2018, 17:37#16

No Mozart

I started to disbelieve your BS when you gave an exact description of Matfield and assigned ot to Du Toit.   However, you missed out on one Matfield description namely thin legs his nickname was not Kiewiet for nothing.     Remember the garbage you spout ed on site about long neck and thin shoulders an wrists.   That BS was spouted by you irrespective of the fact that you were totally wrong about it.   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2018, 20:10
#17
12 Dec 2018, 20:10#17
Stephanie 44 tests/23 wins/52% win ratio....clearly no guarantee of a great Bok record. Over the same period of time since Stephanie played his first test....the Springbok record without Stephanie.....12 wins/7 losses for a win ratio of 63%. There is zero non subjective evidence that Stephanie adds anything to the Bok cause, a flank who does some of the work our locks would otherwise do....thus depressing their stats. Case closed.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 21:05
#18
12 Dec 2018, 21:05#18

Balls, balls and superballs.  This one cannot produce any proof that discredit Du Toit - he just makes a bigger fool of himself with every posting.   That is similar to his posting that Morne Steyn was a better test flyhalf than  Carter, and dozens of other BS postings.   

Lets give him a bit of advice - tests wins are team wins -  and prove nothing about individual performances.   Take one example -  Parisse is one of the top 8's in the world during the past decade.  In tests he plays for Italy - yet they rarely win a test.   Does that makes Parisse a sub-par player?       .  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 21:05
#19
12 Dec 2018, 21:05#19

Balls, balls and superballs.  This one cannot produce any proof that discredit Du Toit - he just makes a bigger fool of himself with every posting.   That is similar to his posting that Morne Steyn was a better test flyhalf than  Carter, and dozens of other BS postings.   

Lets give him a bit of advice - tests wins are team wins -  and prove nothing about individual performances.   Take one example -  Parisse is one of the top 8's in the world during the past decade.  In tests he plays for Italy - yet they rarely win a test.   Does that makes Parisse a sub-par player?       .  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Dec 2018, 22:05
#20
12 Dec 2018, 22:05#20
'Balls' ........ag no not that again, control yourself man So individuals make no difference......tell that to Retallik who enabled the AB win over England....to O'Mahony who kept Ireland in the game against NZ, playing in roles Stephanie had during the season. Only thing definitive I can remember Stephanie doing is conceding the penalty that got NZ back into the game in Pretoria. The rest just a bunch of process rugby. When you have large samples ....like 64 tests....you should be able to discern trends provided participation isn't subjest to undue bias. Not the case with Stephanie. It looks like he is a modestly negative factor.....those are the facts.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Dec 2018, 22:25
#21
12 Dec 2018, 22:25#21

No Mozart - you are talking tripe.   And you are totally demented again proving nothing really of consequence.   What a stupid raving BSter you are.   You forgot how Du Toit in the French tst got the maul going after Mostert failed badly and the Springbok won the game as the result of the try scored.   Of course you praised Mostert for his role in the maul and then fo und out lying about he maul.   

      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2018, 00:52
#22
13 Dec 2018, 00:52#22
Now there's a lie..but we have exposed it completely already.....no he made no difference to the maul at all. He did , however get penalized against the ABs for lifting and then got Koch penalized by falling in front of him and not protecting the ball. Two penalties that lost the test.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Dec 2018, 03:32
#23
13 Dec 2018, 03:32#23

No Mozart

That was not a lie - your original myth about Mostert was a lie or alternatively an affirmation that your knowledge about the game is near to zero,   Hell a bloke co-ordinating and directing a maul with both feet off the ground and the maul going backwards - what a farce!!!!  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2018, 07:15
#24
13 Dec 2018, 07:15#24
Just watched the Wales test again....apart from his foot in touch to negate the try, he spills the ball on the Wales 5 metre line....and gets turned at minute 75 to kill our final chance. So many toothless, dead end runs.....four or five chances to make the turnover but pushed off the ball....the easy metres round his side of the scrum.....so much loosie work not done while he swans in the backline.....three turnovers conceded and two penalties. The man is a slight lock, playing him at 7 is costing us every game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Dec 2018, 09:37
#25
13 Dec 2018, 09:37#25

Mozart

Let me put it - you apparently spend a huge part of your time trying to find even the minutest mistake made by Du Toit to crucify him and never find anything positive in what he does.

Since it is manic in that type of approach is your absolute hatred of the player and your frequent distortions what actually happened.   It is no use to discuss rugby issues with you since you always put prejudice first and cannot evaluate player performances properly.

I can remember a number of cases where I queried what you wrote about players and asked you about other players making similar mistakes and those are then excused as not being similar.  

I will not read and respond with anything you write about Du Toit and other of your pet hate  players in future - since what you  come up is mostly deception and total BS about them anyway..    

    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2018, 16:49
#26
13 Dec 2018, 16:49#26
No hatred of the player, but an intense dislike of the South African tendency to pick favourites and then see no wrong in the anointed. So I act as a counter balance. Stephanie had a better season, he did some good things....but he was not a match winner, just an average member of the team, who was a big part of our losses to the ABs, England at Twickenham and Wales.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
13 Dec 2018, 17:07
#27
13 Dec 2018, 17:07#27
". . . the South African tendency to pick favourites and then see no wrong in the anointed. So I act as a counter balance."
What a conceited thing to say . . . especially from someone who can never see the wrong in his anointed Eben Etzebeth who is the most hyped up player in SA rugby history!
Nice try Moffie but we all know why you hate Pieter-Steph with a passion bordering on the obsessive . . . it's because you backed the wrong horse and Pieter-Steph has outplayed your darling Eben in every test match they've ever played together.
That's the truth.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Dec 2018, 17:51
#28
13 Dec 2018, 17:51#28

Rooinek

Mozart study every fame to find fault with Du Toit - but never does that to other players  - especially not his favourites.   That shows as you say pathetic hatred of Du Toit.

That hatred started 5 years ago - in fact in 2013  when Dave and I started punting Du Toit ahead of the over-the-hill Botha and later on Matfield.

Meyer could never help himself - he constantly pleaded with retirees to come back and all of them with perhaps Du Preez being an exception -  was useless in the tests played and Botha and Steenkamp opted out before the WC.   

It was indeed fun to watch how Mozart tried to squirm out of it when someone on board point out deficiencies  of his favourites and he tried desperately to exonerate them   - that happened a lot of time and he then started to prove how much better the faltering Matfield was to De Jager - another pet hate of his.   He was anti De Jager and anti some other players as well without having seen them playing a single game.

To protect the useless he came up with his own phrases to prove that if his pet hate players make 20 tackles in a game and his favourites makes only 5  - the 20 tackle count is worthless compared to the 5 tackles made by his favourites.   The same "process"  BS is now assigned to ball carries as well.   Both descriptions have been used only to discredit his pet hate players and hide deficiencies by his has beens and never-has-beens.     It really is not worthwhile to discussed performances players with him - he will always be the same BSter with an egg mountain as high as Everest covering him. - no shame at all,


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2018, 18:34
#29
13 Dec 2018, 18:34#29
Not conceited, what I say wont make a fig of difference. It's just one of thousands of opinions. As for Etzebeth vs Stephanie, I don't believe any international coach will pick Stephanie as their first choice lock over Etzebeth. You simply don't see what he does....just as you never understood Burger, who is still playing great rugby for Sarazens.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2018, 18:40
#30
13 Dec 2018, 18:40#30
Now let's see, how many emotional words are there in that posting of your's Gomtok: 'Fault, favourites, pathetic hatred,desperately, exonerate, faltering, the useless, worthless, process (now an emotional word), discredit, pet hate, has beens, never-has.beens, Bster, egg mountain.' Quite a 'queer' effort.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Dec 2018, 19:46
#31
13 Dec 2018, 19:46#31

No Mozart

I wrote what your approach towards player assessment is and that is what is "queer".

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
13 Dec 2018, 20:12
#32
13 Dec 2018, 20:12#32
It's a conceited, hypocritical statement made by a self-important, stupid and childish little man.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2018, 22:15
#33
13 Dec 2018, 22:15#33
Gosh....'conceited, self important, stupid and childish'. Bad news Gomtok, Startung has your number for insults in one, albeit clumsy, sentence. Hilarious when the Mongs with no university education call PhDs stupid. LMAOFY!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Dec 2018, 22:47
#34
13 Dec 2018, 22:47#34

I studied through UNISA - I believe that is a University - not so thickness?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Dec 2018, 01:15
#35
14 Dec 2018, 01:15#35
'Si I studied'....sure Gomtok, it sure sounds like it.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2018, 07:41
#36
14 Dec 2018, 07:41#36

Listen BSter - my margins got a bit mixed up and I thought the sentence started with "I" and not "Is"   In any event you are a fool anyway.  Why no comments about the statement I made bout Parisse?  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2018, 07:41
#37
14 Dec 2018, 07:41#37

Listen BSter - my margins got a bit mixed up and I thought the sentence started with "I" and not "Is"   In any event you are a fool anyway.  Why no comments about the statement I made bout Parisse?  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2018, 07:41
#38
14 Dec 2018, 07:41#38

Listen BSter - my margins got a bit mixed up and I thought the sentence started with "I" and not "si"   In any event you are a fool anyway.  Why no comments about the statement I made about Parisse - that sank your BS completely ? 

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