Ping Moz - Fransie: Alistair wanted to pick him...

LINK It seems his availability for the Boks wasn't a priority when he negotiated his contract with his club? What's new? The usual BS from this player.

But recall he was in a financial dispute with the Boks a year ago, where he claimed they went back on their word. Right or wrong that doesn’t instill confidence. What you are seeing is Bok players with a market value accessing the global rugby market. Frans is a genuine talent, never appreciated in RSA. The usual tall poppie, as opposed to short Toetie syndrome. I’m 100% behind Frans who should be playing 10/12 along with Pollard,

Mozart
Frans was BS in Super Rugby for three years running with the worst center and flyhalf stats and you still think that he is a worthwhile center.   That is like staying loyal to Mugabe and you know how that ended.   ,     

Or staying loyal to Allende?

 Moz, I've got no problem with players using their skill for the best possible financial gain, but playing for the Boks is a honour some players seems not to be too much concerned about. There is a history of issues with Fransie dating back to 2008. Playing for the Boks was not a priority when he negotiated his contracts. 

 Draad things have changed. Given the rampant" affirmative action" here against Whites coloured and Indians I think anybody playing professional rugby should maximise their earnings. I know i would.Frans looks in much better shape than when he was playing here. Very talented player who , if on form, is a must for the Boks.

 DbDraad

Status: Rugby Legend 
Posts: 6654RE: Ping Moz - Fransie: Alistair wanted to pick him...
November 22, 2017, 04:13:43

 Moz, I've got no problem with players using their skill

for the best possible financial gain, but playing for the

Boks is a honour some players seems not to be too

much concerned about. There is a history of issues 

with Fransie dating back to 2008. Playing for the Boks 

was not a priority when he negotiated his contracts. 

I firmly believe that the national contracts are a disaster as it is. What makes an in-form overseas player, playing for the Boks any different from an out-of-form local player who is in the team because he has a Bok contract and needs to be played because of a piece of paper called a Bok contract? A Bok contract is just another form of job reservation and a breeding ground for complacency.
Forget about jumping on the head of the "quota coach", whose contract (at this stage) is also not worth the paper that it is written on. The players are as much to blame. To my mind, none of the current (contracted) crop are worth the money they are paid, IMO.
I know people don't like bringing football into a rugby argument but so be it. There are many principles in football that are worth having a look at. There are many football players who hardy set their foot in their home countries but come the international windows they become national players again and their countrymen don't worry a crap about the fact that they hardly see them play. The players themselves forget for that period all about their allegiances to their various clubs and they start fighting for a spot in their national sides. Didier Drogba, when he was playing for Chelsea, left his Chelsea kit packed away and became a full blooded Cote D'ivoire player with each and every Ivorian fully behind him. Nobody complained about him playing in England. The same when England played Germany at Wembley, the other night. Metsul Ozil lives down the road from Wembley, playing for Arsenal but for that night he was a German payer with all of Germany behind him.
The international football players are also not paid the vast amounts of money that they earn at their clubs. Hell, most, if not all, of the German players donated their earnings from the last World Cup to Charities. I know that some players from other countries followed suit.What I'm trying to say is that their earnings for their international appearances are so insignificant that they can mostly afford to give it away.
Their awards for representing their countries are not the amounts of money that they receive. It is the honour of representing their countries that is driving them.

 Draadie what these people earn overseas and what local players earn is vastly different. Hence go overseas and earn the money has to be the best advice. If you have played less than 30 test and you go overseas you are not eligible for the Boks? My point is go and earn while you can. Loyalty to the Boks. You can be dropped or injured at anytime. It doesn't pay like a good overseas contract. Life after rugby is what must be put first for players.

 No problem with that, but we have players abroud who never have club issues when sellected for the boks. Duane, Louw and Habana never have major issues, yet Jaque Fourie, Fransie and Bekker are not available.  I'm sure it's written into their contracts.

 Mozart
My comment about Steyn has nothing to do with De Allende.   It has everything to do with other players who showed performance that could be considered and there are a string of those including Vorster, Odendaal and Van Rensburg.
My problem is that ever since 2012 Frans Steyn was BS - something clearly confirmed by his performance record.    He was Fat and unfit and even though he slimmed down from recent reports - he was grossly unfit in the June 2017 test where he came from the bench against the French,   He could not foll0ow up a kick 50 meters ahead without breathing problems.
I am also not overawed about a recent Top 14 game against a weak opposing team in the top 14 game.   That is not a means to asses player performances on a continuous basis - he must do more.
The problem is that since 2012 Steyn never showed anything special - either in defense or attack and was known as a crashballing ball hogger - a player without any possibility of contributing anything on test level. 

The IRB needs to investigate if players are being blackmailed. 
It may be that they have accepted higher contracts, on the basis that they make themselves not available. 
The worst is the Toulon owner, a complete prat that just ignores the IRB ruling that international players must be made available to their test teams. 

 "The IRB needs to investigate if players are being blackmailed. 
It may be that they have accepted higher contracts, on the basis that they make themselves not available. 
The worst is the Toulon owner, a complete prat that just ignores the IRB ruling that international players must be made available to their test teams. "

That's what I'm thinking. We know that Bekker and Jaque Fourie had such stipulations in their contracts. I'm thinking Fransie had too.Habana even played outside the test window. Duane was intimidated with non payment. They can negotiate contracts that suit them, but it would obviously cost them a bit. For some, a lot of money is enough, but some want even more.
I heard Duane's contract ends in January. Wonder if Rassie will persuade him to come back.

 Cera i don't think we can compare rugby to soccer in this instance.

It's pretty easy to donate a couple of % of your annual earnings to charity when youre earning ridiculous amounts. Like European soccer players do.

If your international duties affect your over all earning potential in that you end up not being able to play for the clubs that pay well, that is when its becomes a problem. It makes no sense to pledge allegiance to a system that is unorganized, riddled with political interference and has been a bit of a laughing stock for some years.

We can blame players for individual performances but for me the vast majority of blame for the over all state of the game lay with the politics and the administration of the game in SA. Better administration would see more players willing to make the patriotic choice.

I just used the example of the donations to try to indicate the difference in attitude towards the national sides in football. In football the players do not have massive incentives to play in the National sides. They still perceive it as an honour to represent one’s country. In rugby they have player representatives and agents and BS to sort out the money side and agree contracts and shyte because it is mainly about the pounds shillings and pennies. In football the agents don’t have a say. The guys get called up for national duty and when they do get the call they do not give a flying fig about the money. They only celebrate the fact of being called. That “gees” is what is missing in rugby. SA rugby in any case, IMO.

This all about a player who was a serious flop for years now and thanks heaven Coetzee could not call him up and add to the stupid selections he continuously makes .

“Oh look at me. Guys, quickly, gather around and listen carefully. I want to tell you something I have never told anybody before. Something that nobody would ever have guessed, had I not told you this breaking news myself. Now listen carefully to what Oom Maaikie is going to tell you. Remember you heard it just now from me for the very first time ever. This is what I want to tell you. Are you ready for this? Now listen carefully. I farking hate Frans Steyn. Who would have guessed that, hahh?”

The above shows it is  Dunce time again.   Stupid moron, I hate no players - I just said that performance should be  the norm for selection and in the case of Steyn there has been  poor performance for years.   

Hmmm. “I hate no players”, he says.

 Cera. All I'm saying is that it's much easier to be patriotic and have gees when you're sitting on a mountain of cash. 

Probably, Plum. I just think that when it comes to representing your country it should not be about money or a contract. I’m we all agree that when it comes to selecting a team for a test it should be about picking the best team possible at that point in time. There should be no other considerations bar the best available at the time. No quotas no this, that and the other preconditions. I’m just as against selecting preferred players because they are contracted as I’m against selecting players to meet certain political ideologies. Once again, when those players run on the field, you expect each and every person to do one thing..... give everything he/she has to offer. Why, when the same is expected from each and every player, should some be “honoured” with a national contract worth heaps of cash and others not? I’m all for paying each and every player the same “flat rate” per game combined with a good win bonus.

 Bring Fransie back. Why not who else you got. Kriel and De Allende? 

 I just watched the latest highlights from this weekend. The following players really impressed me. It just proves that Coetzee ruins players. Hougaard - fantastic service, non of this crabbing or confusion we saw. Faf de klerk - Really upped the tempo and great at bossing the game around him Serfontein - different player, see to find his distribution game now that he is at Montpellier under Vern Cotter JP Pietersen - 2 tries, out stripped the defence one intercept and another chasing down a cross field dink to dot down in the corner Willie le Roux - on fire, broke the line at will to put his outside backs in space to score. Surely SA Rugby can work with these players and create a dual contact where by they agree to be available during the test window. Come June and these players would had a tough European season behind them, but bring the into the Squad and use them of the wood. 6 weeks before the championship kick-off. Give the guys a month break followed by 2 Currie cup games before selection. After championship give them another 2 week break and then pick them for 3 games in Nov.

@Kingcorn. The issue is that it is not just Coetzee who is to blame. All the SA coaches who “oversaw” these players, in SA, are to blame. All of them. Even Ackerman,who had Faf under his wing. There is no way that Coetzee (including the highly rated Franco Smith and Brendan Venter, remember) should be able to undo what Ackerman and co have done in months and even years, in a matter of a few weeks in a Bok camp. None of the coaches, in whose hands these players currently are, are currently national coaches. Of course we know that Verne Cotter was with Scotland for some time and one cannot dent that he has done a great job and left Gregor Townsend a hell of a nice setup to carry forward. What I’m trying to say is that it is not only Coetzee who is ruining the players. It is SA rugby as a whole who are doing it and you cannot count out the players themselves either. They suddenly found themselves away from the over protected environment and they have to swim or sink. There are many wolves waiting for them to fail to take over their spots.

Seems to be a bit of Rassie momentum building....I’m not a fan, but a 2 year assignment might suit him better