Players to watch out for in CC this weekend

I'm very interested to see how Ruhan Nell performs but unfortunately we don't get CC.

I will report back on the Nel issue after the match.   

No doubt that CC is good exposure for up and coming players, but once they reach Super rugby it's a clean slate for everyone. As we have seen many times in the past. The last great CC for bringing talent through was 2006. 

Some Currie Cup games may be downloaded here:

https://www.sport-video.org.ua

https://acrossthetasman.com/forum.php

I can't think of another resource. It's sad that these games are better catered for by Aussies and Kiwis. Come on Saffys, up your game! 

That said, there was an uploaded on Piratebay many years ago by the name Shamyaza, for unknown reasons he vanished. Many offered to pay him for his contributions, to give him whatever he needed or wanted. No reply. A great pity. 

By the way another proven 13 to be considered could be William Small-Smith.   He is at present the captain of the Cheetahs iro the Pro14 series and had a very good game last night against Ulster.

I'll check him out. We need backup for Am. 

Am had a very average game against the AB's and actually flopped in earlier test matches - but he is now suddenly the cats whiskers.  This sudden enhancing of him to a top class performer is rather ridiculous.   Fact is he is a candidate for the 13 position - like a few other players - and got the job because he is a quota player,  

My own impression is that with Nkosi returning from injury - he is likely to bring on board at wing next week and Kriel will return to outside center.   Another better than Am player is William Small-Smith.

As to the inside center Esterhuizen must have felt he did not make the grade in the tests and he went off to play rugby in Japan.  I will be extremely surprised if he is to be recalled  from Japan.   Another player hyped up endlessly by Mozart and you for months now - was the hype real or just a smokescreen based on prejudice against De Allende?   

TxVlag. It was too late by the time I read your post but the good news is that I'll be able to see a replay next week.

Am was rock solid against New Zealand. As I said, we haven't had that from an outside centre since Jaque Fourie. The closest was Serfontein in 2014. To at that a Currie Cup player can definitely surpass what Am has done is highly suspect to say the least. South Africa's overestimate their centres almost all of the time. This is the one area of the game we have always had the most trouble producing quality players.

Am will be missed. His absence diminishes out chances of both defeating Australia and mounting a serious challenge against New Zealand. 

I must admit you are a farce to be laughed at all the time.   Jut to ad Small-Smith did not play in the CC game - he played in the game against Ulster.  You obviously missed that game a well.   

How solid was Am in the AB test?  Sure he was but at the same time showed nothing special to justify your pipe dreams.

I will give you one name that will become a top class center in future - better than Kriel, Am and Mapoe ever was.  Write down his name and watch his progress - Wandisile Simelane.     

Nothing special? How about faultless defence for 19 phases deep in our half? You say he did nothing special, what exactly did he do wrong? What exactly could he have done differently? You talk down Am, yet you have no problem with Steph showing the same frailties on defence as prior years. Something is very wrong with this. 

No, I didn't watch the game, though I find it funny that you are punting players playing against NH teams after you criticized them for being "substandard garbage" . You move the goal posts too often to be taken seriously! 

AO

Most of the NH club teams will be wiped the floor with by Super Rugby SH teams.   Remember the Kings and Cheetahs are not Super Rugby level teams.  So what level challenge are there to test the competitiveness of the NH club teams themselves?

I never moved the goal posts at all.   My opinion has been stated emphatically on the site,   

I never punted any player and just happen to mention Small-Smith as another option in view of our depleted center ranks and the question mark iro essentially the inside center situation.   Despite all the substantially unjustified shouting about Esterhuizen  he has serious deficiencies in his game and is not an automatic choice in that position.    

AO

Most of the NH club teams will be wiped the floor with by Super Rugby SH teams.   Remember the Kings and Cheetahs are not Super Rugby level teams.  So what level challenge are there to test the competitiveness of the NH club teams themselves?

I never moved the goal posts at all.   My opinion has been stated emphatically on the site,   

I never punted any player and just happen to mention Small-Smith as another option in view of our depleted center ranks and the question mark iro essentially the inside center situation.   Despite all the substantially unjustified shouting about Esterhuizen  he has serious deficiencies in his game and is not an automatic choice in that position.    

AO

Most of the NH club teams will be wiped the floor with by Super Rugby SH teams.   Remember the Kings and Cheetahs are not Super Rugby level teams.  So what level challenge are there to test the competitiveness of the NH club teams themselves?

I never moved the goal posts at all.   My opinion has been stated emphatically on the site,   

I never punted any player and just happen to mention Small-Smith as another option in view of our depleted center ranks and the question mark iro essentially the inside center situation.   Despite all the substantially unjustified shouting about Esterhuizen  he has serious deficiencies in his game and is not an automatic choice in that position.    

Ceradunce

Why are you so stupid - mentioning a player is not punting him - he is merely mentioned as a possibility in view of the center problem at present.    In any event I also mentioned Nel and he was included in the squad,

When are you going to get to the stage that you make a thinking contribution on site?   Your only contributions are on what I wrote and nothing else.   Your contribution on that is so distorted and crazy it is unbelievable. 

We are still waiting for a real rugby contribution from you and a serious question arises - have you got any thinking ability as to the game of rugby?

What about making a real rugby contribution?   

Lügnerin can't help tripping over his forked tongue. It's been an embarrassing few days for him. Even funnier is how the Steph groupies who called me a liar are hiding from the video I posted yesterday. Bring a video out and the real liars scurry away like cockroaches. 

Hell - but you are dim beyond belief!!!!!!!!!

AO

I do no read all your anti-Du Toit tirades and  did not even look at the video clip you posted.   The tirades are getting boring and since it is normally based on BS - I am not really interested on what you write on site.

One cannot help to note the total arrogance and prejudice in all your postings.    If you post any real observations on the game - a discussion is possible.   But your contributions is so slanted and indicative of BS one can never really things you write seriously.  

Tirades? Where has there ever been an anti-Steph tirade from me? Was it present after round 1? You are throwing yourself off a chasm every time you lie. That video is the direct result of your personal attacks. It could have been easy if you were at least a little honest, you could have even ignored the facts I stated. No, you are overcome by an irrational need to insult anyone who dares say anything contrary to your liking. I'm not letting you off the hook this time.

Read your own contributions as to Du Toit and especially those of Mozart and your comments on whatever BS Mozart comes up with and then think about what I wrote, before you take yourself deeper into the hole you are digging for yourself. 

I am not insulting you - I am just pointing out how you lost it on site and what you now wrote is a  irrational.   So I am in no hook - I was just pointing out what you constantly write about Du Toit and even more so about De Allende.   

If anybody is to be let off the hook it can only be you - maybe it si overdue for you to change your user name again.   

Maybe it is time to stop "watching out for" and searching for "new" players and start figuring out how to make do with those who are capped and available at the moment. What happened to the idea to discarding a player only when there is someone who is a proven improvement on what we have at the moment, or if and when those players are no longer available?

I had a bit of a look and made a quick count. HM left us with around 21 players who are still around. A few years ago, I made a spreadsheet, having a look at players who played in more than one RWC. What I tried to figure out was how valid it was to say that HM was mainly relying on "Jake White" players. What I found was that there were more JW players, from the 2007 squad, still playing when HM took over than there were PDV players from the 2011 squad when HM took over. The one who actually left us with basically nothing was PDV.

Around 14 of the HM's RWC squad are still played by Rassie and/or are still available. These are the "HM Boks" in the 2015 RWC squad (those that Rassie have used or could use are marked with an *), Frans Malherbe*, Trevor Nyakane*, Coenie Oosthuizen*, Lood de Jager*, PSDT*, Eben Etzebeth*, Siya Kolisi*, Duane Vermeulen*, Rudie Paige, Pat Lambie*(?), Handre Pollard*, Daimien de Allende*, Jesse Kriel*, Jan Serfontien*, Lwazi Mvovo. Fifteen players in total and thirteen either available to or have been used by Rassie. I haven't even looked at the ones that were used by Allister Coetzee. I have also not looked at HM Boks that were not in the 2015 RWC squad and are available, if any.

The "PDV Boks" in the 2011 RWC squad were only Beast, Willem Alberts, Heinrich Brussow, Francois Hougaardt, Morne Steyn, Juan de Jongh, Gio Aplon, Odwa Ndungane, Pat Lambie and Zane Kirchner. Ten players in total.

There is also another set of numbers to look at. How many new Boks have been capped, per coach, since Jake White?

Jake White - 34. Fifteen ended up in the 2007 RWC.

PDV - 33 but only ten ended up in the  2011 RWC

HM - 37 and fifteen ended up in the 2015 RWC, and thirteen still available or being used by Rassie.

Allister Coetzee - 23 in two years.

Rassie - 19 in 9 months.

That leaves Rassie and Allister Coetzee with 42 new caps between the two of them, over two years and nine months, and with the next RWC still a year away. That is also apart from the thirteen HM RWC "left overs" from 2015!!!! Remember that those thirteen does not include players capped by HM who did not make the 2015 RWC squad. There may be some of those avalable as well. That is at least 55 capped test players with a year to go to the 2019 RWC and we want to add more, come hell or high water?

It has become a joke.

Do I fully blame any of the above coaches? No. Not one of them. Not even PDV and Allister Coetzee. I mainly blame SARU, ably assisted by the govt and society with their ever present fixation with race. In addition, our franchises and unions have to shoulder a large part of the blame as well. They and their coaches are not producing the goods either.

Think about this. In 2007, when we won the RWC, we had the Bulls who won the Super 14, but not only that, our other teams were doing well as well. The final was on SA soil between two SA sides, after all. In 2011 nobody expected us to go any further than the pool stages, yet we came within a whisker of a place in teh semi-final. Why? because we were still doing well in the Super 14, having won it in 2009 and 2010.

And then everything changed. We were suddenly nowhere in Super Rugby when the stupid conference system was introduced and, in addition, our players started pissing off. The conference system is a load of BS because, IMO, the only reason why we end up at the top of the logs every time is because the SA sides play each other twice and there is an opportunit for the stronger SA side to milk points from the weaker SA sides twice in the competition. Add to that the fact that one contestant of each conference is guaranteed a place in the semi-finals in any case. in addition the "SA" conference is also split up in two minor "conferences".

Despite the above we still managed to come very close to beating the ABs in the semi final and for a place in the final.

Another aspect that, IMO, led to the demise of our rugby is the part of the political agenda that is, kind of, hidden away where very few really notice it. That is the effect of this immature numbers game that has been unfolding over more than two decades and which has slowly eroded our rugby. Instead of commiting to and doing real development from grass roots level, it is exactly there, at grass roots level, where the biggest "enforcement" of the numbers game took place. In effect, that is where the idea of developing turned into a ball of shit. The idea that you can achieve development in sport by side tracking some and pushing others in is pure pie in the sky. You can never develope somebody by weakening the competition. That does not work anywhere in society.

Every word was accurate. Then you popped a vein when you read it. It was supposedly BS, yet you could not refute some much as a single letter. I would not call that a success regardless how many times you oat your back. 

Well-well-well – at last a rugby related post by Ceradunce.   AO did his normal and supported the posting  enthusiastically.

There are some truth in what Ceradunce wrote so let look at the different topics.

The SARU issue

There is definitely some truth  in the negative impact SARU had on the issue over the past few years and is often used to cover up deficiencies by the coaches – so lets look at whereSARU actually had a bad impact on SA Rugby:-

*    The termination of the contract of Jake White in 2007.  This was the result of infighting involving the Watson faction and the Bulls and the Cheetahs  - the latter two Unions wanted to replace White with Meyer.   The Meyer scheme collapsed  when the  WP, Sharks and the Lions refused to be part of the intrigue against White and rather voted against Meyer’s appointment.

*    The effect of SARU on the issue was minimal until 2015 – when Meyer failed as coach and SARU refused to renew his contract as coach.

That was not really a fault by SARU – nobody with the record had during the period November 2014 to September 2015 could reasonably expected a contract renewal.

After 2015 SARU really turned vicious and demanded increased quota representation.   They appointed Coetzee – who failed at the Stormers as coach and could expect nothing more from him than he delivered.

The quota issue is a cross Erasmus must bear.   However, indications are that he is  better in player-identification than  his two predecessors were.

Capping of Players

It is not clear what  Ceradyne is driving at here.    Fact is that players will always be taken ocer by a new coach from his presdecessor.   Fact is that these players should not be taken over based on reputation – but on performance.      The entire issue should also be lookled at from a player age situation and also with die regard to the number of tests  played by players under the previous coach.

So the numbers game becomes very complicated if a logical evaluation is to be made,  

No back to the present.   As a result of Meyer persisting with too many players based  on age and reputation – the players he did leave as an inheritance was  a mixed bag..   Six of the 13 have not played in a single test  thus far – basically more or less evenly divided between players who should never have been selected and injured players.      

If  Ceradyne thinks that the dregs Meyer and Coetzee left over is enough to select a world cup squad from  he must really go and see a quack.    Meyer left us with players like Paige and  Mohoje while Coetzee left us with an endless list of failures.

Players should always be selected on MERIT and a theoretical list like  Ceradyne came up here is not the way to go.

Well-well-well – at last a rugby related post by Ceradunce.   AO did his normal and supported the posting  enthusiastically.

There are some truth in what Ceradunce wrote so let look at the different topics.

The SARU issue

There is definitely some truth  in the negative impact SARU had on the issue over the past few years and is often used to cover up deficiencies by the coaches – so lets look at whereSARU actually had a bad impact on SA Rugby:-

*    The termination of the contract of Jake White in 2007.  This was the result of infighting involving the Watson faction and the Bulls and the Cheetahs  - the latter two Unions wanted to replace White with Meyer.   The Meyer scheme collapsed  when the  WP, Sharks and the Lions refused to be part of the intrigue against White and rather voted against Meyer’s appointment.

*    The effect of SARU on the issue was minimal until 2015 – when Meyer failed as coach and SARU refused to renew his contract as coach.

That was not really a fault by SARU – nobody with the record had during the period November 2014 to September 2015 could reasonably expected a contract renewal.

After 2015 SARU really turned vicious and demanded increased quota representation.   They appointed Coetzee – who failed at the Stormers as coach and could expect nothing more from him than he delivered.

The quota issue is a cross Erasmus must bear.   However, indications are that he is  better in player-identification than  his two predecessors were.

Capping of Players

It is not clear what  Ceradyne is driving at here.    Fact is that players will always be taken ocer by a new coach from his presdecessor.   Fact is that these players should not be taken over based on reputation – but on performance.      The entire issue should also be lookled at from a player age situation and also with die regard to the number of tests  played by players under the previous coach.

So the numbers game becomes very complicated if a logical evaluation is to be made,  

No back to the present.   As a result of Meyer persisting with too many players based  on age and reputation – the players he did leave as an inheritance was  a mixed bag..   Six of the 13 have not played in a single test  thus far – basically more or less evenly divided between players who should never have been selected and injured players.      

If  Ceradyne thinks that the dregs Meyer and Coetzee left over is enough to select a world cup squad from  he must really go and see a quack.    Meyer left us with players like Paige and  Mohoje while Coetzee left us with an endless list of failures.

Players should always be selected on MERIT and a theoretical list like  Ceradyne came up here is not the way to go.