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FORUM / RUGBY /  Players who enhanced thir chances of Springbok selecton and those who did not

Players who enhanced thir chances of Springbok selecton and those who did not

Started by clevermike27 REPLIES911 VIEWS· 28 Apr 2018, 20:33
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Apr 2018, 20:33
#1
28 Apr 2018, 20:33#1

So three games this weekend and based on actual performance I think the following players their selection chances:-

*   Jesse Kriel and Damian de Allende at center

*    Pollard at flyhalf

*    De Jager and Du Toit at lock

*   Kitshoff at prop

It is no necessary to refer to Marx – the best hooker in the World.

Willemse did well too and enhance his claims to be on the bench – but he is off to the Under20WC

There was nothing to be said about the wings – if JJ Engelbrecht is the best performing wing the others must have been below par.  

The Lions props were also sub-standard,

The players with real selection chances who did damage to their chances were Mostert and Jantjies.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Apr 2018, 21:19
#2
28 Apr 2018, 21:19#2
Actually no: 1 Jese Kriel missed 40% of his tackles and was totally ineffective withgreat ball. 2 Allende had a decent game against a poor team, but blew a try. 3 Stephanie was pretty much invisible. He did pop up at outside centre though and once on the left wing where he threw his trademark forward pass. 4 Lomp had an okay game against the small Highlanders locks but hardly threatened their lineout, which looked to be there for the taking.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Apr 2018, 22:48
#3
28 Apr 2018, 22:48#3

Mozart

You are a total nut case - Kriel scored try and if that was totally ineffective heaven helps us.

So he blew a try in your book - total falsification of what really happened.  Did he not score a try as well in any event, 

Liar =- liar as per normal about all four players - all about your pet hates again?   

Just a question did you watch any of the three games?    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Apr 2018, 22:54
#4
28 Apr 2018, 22:54#4
Kriel ran through open space after a brilliant Pollard pass....he never had to beat a tackle to score. Allende had a try denied for barging into a defender....fact What lie ....point me to the lie.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,255 posts
28 Apr 2018, 22:56
#5
28 Apr 2018, 22:56#5
duplicate
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Apr 2018, 08:23
#6
29 Apr 2018, 08:23#6

All white players ... and still, no decent quota in sight for Rassies 50% target.

What to do ... what to do ... ?

I suspect poor old Mike is in for a horrid surprise when Rassie names his first match 23.

God help us if Kriel and De Allende make the mix.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 08:29
#7
29 Apr 2018, 08:29#7

Mozart

The description you gave is grossly inaccurate - but that is to be expected from you.  Your descriptions of what happens on the field of play are always inaccurate to the point of outright lies and that is what happened here.

What happened  here was that De Allende broke a tackle and passed the ball to ball back to Viljoen.    He came to a virtual dead stop and could not just vanish from the scene.   A Rebel defender ran into him and that was a technical obstruction.  

Unbelievable BS from you as per normal.        

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
29 Apr 2018, 08:31
#8
29 Apr 2018, 08:31#8

To set the cat amongst the pigeons...LOL

Ol' Maaikie players should be selected on reputation....Hahawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Not on form...double LOL


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 08:37
#9
29 Apr 2018, 08:37#9

Definitely not CC - I look only at performance - so who do I support on  reputation basis? 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Apr 2018, 09:19
#10
29 Apr 2018, 09:19#10

That's not what I'm saying, Mike.

I'm saying that you're expecting a team of white players from Rassie ... when we both know that he has no choice but to bring in a 50% mix.

WE WILL NEVER FIELD OUR BEST TEAM AGAIN.

EVER.

Try to get that through your thick skull.

Your favourite Jesse Kriel may just be ousted by Am ... or Mapoe ... because of skin colour.

We already know that Kolisi is guaranteed the 6 jersey ... maybe even the capataincy.

We also know that Beast will take up his spot at 1 ... even though we have at least 5 better loosehead props available.

Rassie has been talking Nyakane up these last few weeks ... so that tells me that we can expect that hamburger noshing lardass to at least be on the bench.

Is anything sinking in yet?

At least half of our team will consist of incompetence.

Let's see whether he can at least select the other half correctly.

All we need is to compliment the incompetent half with the likes of De Allende, Kitshoff and Lomp.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 09:36
#11
29 Apr 2018, 09:36#11

I am not really a strong  Kriel supporter  - but who else should it be.   Am is the only alternative and he is going up and down in games.   The cupboard is bare in that case.

I think you are taking the quota story to spin bad news and since there are no real basis yet to see how Rassie is going to handle that hot potato I am not going top respond to that one.  

What is clear is that Rassie will not select duds the same way Meyer and Coetzee did.     

       

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
29 Apr 2018, 09:41
#12
29 Apr 2018, 09:41#12

Ol' Maaik...I was being sacastic...ofcourse players must be selected on present form but one good performance does not necessary constitute form...there still is the important factor of experience...its 'a a balance...the quota system  complicates it further and is the fly in the ointment...Jesse is talented but has his vulnerable side as most talented players have but when used and coached correctly to his strengths is a very good and effective player...Mitch seems to be doing that...one must be objective and fair on judgement/assessment of players and not subjective and biased .

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2018, 14:50
#13
29 Apr 2018, 14:50#13
No coach could ever have made Dan Carter, Jean de Villiers or Brian O Driscoll lose their personal battles one on one. Week in, week out we have seen the likes of Lambie, Goosen, Allende, Mapoe, Kriel get dominated.....one on one. That's not coaching, it's talent and a competitor's heart. You can win your personal battle even if your team is losing.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 16:14
#14
29 Apr 2018, 16:14#14

Mozart

Were they dominated when?   Just tell us when that happened and who dominated them.   You have a tendency to invent things from the past and misrepresented  details - so please explain your latest posting further.

For the record if you refer to the Super Rugby series for instance De Allende dominated SBW in the present series and hedid the same with both Odendaal and Esterhuizen.

So who dominated him and when?   Do the same with the other pet hate players of yours mentioned above.   

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
29 Apr 2018, 16:15
#15
29 Apr 2018, 16:15#15

..not so clevermike the word is Erasmus will be delivering twin Bok sides this June....one for the exhibition match in the US and another to face England...to help manage player burnout and travel fatigue

This is how John Cardinelli of SARugby Mag is picking the two teams to look like... 

...Possible Springbok team to face Wales in Washington DC on 2 June*

15. Andries Coetzee
14. Travis Ismaiel
13. Jesse Kriel
12. Damian de Allende
11. Aphiwe Dyantyi
10. Elton Jantjies
9. Nic Groom
8. Nizaam Carr
7. Franco Mostert
6. Roelof Smit
5. Jason Jenkins
4. RG Snyman
3. Trevor Nyakane
2. Adriaan Strauss (c)
1. Lizo Gqoboka

...Possible Bok team to face England in Johannesburg on 9 June*

15. Warrick Gelant
14. Ruan Combrinck
13. Lukhanyo Am
12. Frans Steyn
11. Sbu Nkosi
10. Handré Pollard
9. Faf de Klerk
8. Warren Whiteley (c)**
7. Duane Vermeulen
6. Siya Kolisi
5. Lood de Jager
4. Eben Etzebeth**
3. Wilco Louw
2. Malcolm Marx
1. Tendai Mtawarira



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2018, 17:21
#16
29 Apr 2018, 17:21#16
Wot...no Stephanie?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 17:32
#17
29 Apr 2018, 17:32#17

I think that anybody selecting Jantjies and Fat Fransie  must have his head read,   That will show Rassie is a fool - which I believe he is not.

Anybody picking Vermeulen ahead of Du Preez will be in the same category and Carr cannot even make the Stormers starting line=up.    Vermeulen did not have a single half-decent game since his injury in 2015 and Carr's was last half-decent game was for the Stormers in 2014.

Lukhanjo Am and  Fat Fransie - what a center combination -  Cardinelli must have taken some s tuff from Keo when he wrote the above.

Thanks for a nice JOKE Brycy,            

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 17:32
#18
29 Apr 2018, 17:32#18

I think that anybody selecting Jantjies and Fat Fransie  must have his head read,   That will show Rassie is a fool - which I believe he is not.

Anybody picking Vermeulen ahead of Du Preez will be in the same category and Carr cannot even make the Stormers starting line=up.    Vermeulen did not have a single half-decent game since his injury in 2015 and Carr's was last half-decent game was for the Stormers in 2014.

Lukhanjo Am and  Fat Fransie - what a center combination -  Cardinelli must have taken some s tuff from Keo when he wrote the above.

Thanks for a nice JOKE Brycy,            

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
29 Apr 2018, 17:39
#19
29 Apr 2018, 17:39#19

Take it easy on Jo hn Cardinelli as he is from CapeTown and probably related to Bean Brain...

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
29 Apr 2018, 18:24
#20
29 Apr 2018, 18:24#20
''No coach could ever have made Dan Carter, Jean de Villiers or Brian O Driscoll lose their personal battles one on one"

I never said that Mozart, you are just playing with words.

I was refering to styles of play and game plans...talented players are endowed with individual skills ...they are not jacks of all trades and masters of none.

The flyhalf is the key position and conductor of all teams...all positions are important of course but in the true sense there are no good teams without good 10's...Keith Oxlees, Hugo Porta, Jonny Wilkinsons, Dan Carters and many others prove that.

I'm afraid you are stubbornly missing the point entirely . Yes Morne fitted in perfectly to clone and boring rugby, if that floats peoples boat fine but I'm different I enjoy creative rugby.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 18:40
#21
29 Apr 2018, 18:40#21

Seb

I am with you as to creative rugby - Mozart is a  firm believer in his stated opinion that 90% of the functions  of a flyhalf is kicking - in other words t he dunce game.

Another Mozart special is his total ignoring of scoring of tries when a players performance is evaluated espe4cially of that player is on his pet hate list.  An example of this roud wa the fact that he ignored the Kriel and De Allende tries.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Apr 2018, 18:42
#22
29 Apr 2018, 18:42#22

Mozart

Which personal battles are you referring to above, dunce?

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
29 Apr 2018, 19:18
#23
29 Apr 2018, 19:18#23

Mozart, I want to add, Pat Lambie never fitted perfectly in Meyers game plan which dogmatically was applied during his innings of coaching the Springboks, neither was I suggesting that he try and with that and I agree, neither am I suggesting one man's style of play must dominate the rest...what I meant is that the bottom line was the way HM wanted his team to play...he thought this the most likely way to safeguard him from disasterous results...he took the safe way in other words, the conservative way which was the safest but to the detriment of younger talent and in effect we are facing the results still, added to this is the quota problem and a quick result, instant fix society of SA rugby fans that want results...it's like applying band-aid after major surgery. With all our talent we still scratch our dumb heads and wonder why we still fail.

When Japan beat the Boks we slated the players and not the coach, to be truthful it WAS the coach who thought Japan was just a minnow...little did he know they had a very clever coach that saw Meyers weakness in game strategies and if you note now the Japanese can play rugby...there were quite a few areas that Jones noted...one was he got the Japanese scrum to scrum very low and their unexpected ability to hold the bigger Boks threw a spanner into the works and caught the over-hyped up Boks totally unaware...they thought obviously that was going to be a cake walk and this seemingly easy matter was taken by surprise which disarmed the Boks somewhat.

HM was not a bad coach for Currie Cup rugby but simply not the right coach in changing international rugby... yes he got some victories but so did Pieter De Villiers using old talent that still was very talented but far spent and running out of steam.

I'm still not sure we will get it right with Rassie, even with talent in abundance...Rassie's are further handicapped by quotas...quotas handicap the players too...both black and white, they psychologically kill the spirit of each black player too who like anybody else in life wants to be in a team because he knows deep in the recesses of his conscience that he is worthy and possibly the best.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2018, 22:21
#24
29 Apr 2018, 22:21#24
Actually Lambie is a pure kicking flyhalf. He never makes metres on the run....nor is he a creative distributor. Morne was a far, far better passer and much more comfortable making decisions. All this HM bashing is pathetic. He got us within a whisker of the WC final....since then we have plunged from 2/3 to 6/7. Lambie, Goosen, Jantjies are all proven test failures. Some of our worst losses came with Lambie at 10....including the Japanese failure, to which he was a huge negative contributor
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2018, 23:53
#25
29 Apr 2018, 23:53#25
And despite the Pollard bashing at the WC he equalled or outgained the metres of every flyhalf he played against....totalled at least as many cleanbreaks and defenders beaten as any flyhalf he played against.....and outscored every opponent he faced.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Apr 2018, 02:07
#26
30 Apr 2018, 02:07#26

Now Lambie is blamed for the Japan disaster - when Burger was the first receiver in accordance with the Meyer game plan - what a distortion of facts again.   Remember how Burger in the proses knocked on balls four times when he was first receiver.

Lambie did not lose the test - Meyer's overaged veterans did it,  Remember how when the team was announced as the most capped Springbok team ever you went ballistic with joy and when the disaster happened you only blamed Kriel for it and not the dunce rugby played. Now suddenly Lambie is to be blamed.  

What a load of rubbish we have here - must add once again from you.  

However, that was not the topic you were questioned about.      The question arises as to your following statement:-

"Week in, week out we have seen the likes of Lambie, Goosen, Allende, Mapoe, Kriel get dominated.....one on one".

Since Lambie and Goosen is not playing Super Rugby and Mapoe was never ever mentioned in previous discussions - please explain the situation with regard to De Allende and Kriel,   

As to Goosen and Lambie - Goosen had been contracted to replace the dunce Fat Fransie at Montpellier as flyhalf. He was dominated in 2016 when he was the French top 14 player of the year? He then had a fall-out with Racing and never played in subsequent games for Racing.  Was he dominated when he was Player of the Year?   

In any event as per normal you do not watch any Top 14 rugby ever and missed out on most matches played in Super Rugby as well - making you fully qualified to comment on matches - but that is aside the point.

Deal with your domination statement dunce and prove it.   Or admit that you are making w ild statements again.           

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Apr 2018, 03:45
#27
30 Apr 2018, 03:45#27
Tests Tokkie.....certainly these players are regularly outplayed in tests. How can we prove that? They keep getting dropped.....Jantjies and Allende had poor games against Ireland....hence dropped. Goosen dropped after the 2016 RC, was brought back against Wales and never seen again after 3 crucial turnovers. Mapoe....in and quickly out. Kriel was dropped for the whole year of 2016, brought back in 2017 and unexpectedly maintained. He broke even through much of the RC and YE tour, except against Crotty who dominated him the SA test. These players simply aren't competitive, can't make things happen in tests against top teams. We need to move on.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Apr 2018, 03:46
#28
30 Apr 2018, 03:46#28
Tests Tokkie.....certainly these players are regularly outplayed in tests. How can we prove that? They keep getting dropped.....Jantjies and Allende had poor games against Ireland....hence dropped. Goosen dropped after the 2016 RC, was brought back against Wales and never seen again after 3 crucial turnovers. Mapoe....in and quickly out. Kriel was dropped for the whole year of 2016, brought back in 2017 and unexpectedly maintained. He broke even through much of the RC and YE tour, except against Crotty who dominated him the SA test. These players simply aren't competitive, can't make things happen in tests against top teams. We need to move on.
— END OF THREAD —

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