Plumtree admits Steyn is struggling with form,,,

Sharks' coach John Plumtree has defended struggling centre Frans Steyn after his indifferent start to this season's Super Rugby competition.

However, he said he could shift the Springbok star to fullback over the coming weeks.

Steyn has looked out of sorts in the number 12 jersey during the opening four games of the season, with criticism mounting about his performances, especially in the side's 29-10 humbling by the Brumbies in Durban at the weekend.

"It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that he's not quite at his best," Plumtree said on Tuesday.

"He's a quality player and that won't just dry up and go away. I think he has a bit of work to do and he'll admit that himself. "

"It was only two months ago the guy was at 118 kilograms. He'd comeback from a bad ankle injury and he hadn't played for months.

"Now we've got him down to 110kgs and his best fighting weight will be 105 or 106kgs."

Steyn's innocuous form has coincided with a struggling Sharks' attack that has scored just one try in their four outings thus far, while their defence was torn to shreds against the table-topping Brumbies.

They named an unchanged match 22 during their three-match unbeaten start, before making some alterations against the Australians, some partly through injury.

Plumtree's side are still without centre Tim Whitehead because of a broken arm. He was a key backline figure last season,

"We are clearly missing a guy like Tim Whitehead in midfield. He'll be back soon and so will Frans," the coach said.

"I'm keen on playing him. He's been out of Super Rugby for a long time playing overseas for three years, so it's going to take him a little while."

Asked whether he would consider shifting the 25-year-old World Cup winner from centre to fullback, Plumtree said it could happen as soon as this weekend.

"I could if Louis Ludik's not fit on the weekend, which he might not be, then we'll possibly put him there," Plumtree said.

Ludik, who has a shoulder injury, was one of three players with an injury cloud hanging over their heads ahead of the clash against the Rebels.

Springbok front-rower Jannie du Plessis has a thigh problem, while lock Anton Bresler (shoulder) is also doubtful.

All three have not taken part in training this week, although they might participate in some sessions closer to the game.

A players mental software is far more important than his physical attributes. JP doesn't think like a 13....and that little hesitancy is fatal in top class rugby....you only have to look at Hougaard at 9 to see what I mean.

Well I am happy to see Plum thinks Steyn still has it. Best of luck in bringing him back. At 25 he cant be physically past it.

The point about Jordaan is that he needs a12 to set him up - put him into space. If Frans recovers his mojo he could do that. We shall see. However Frans needs to improve markedly or else Plumtree will have no option but to drop him.

JP needs a rocket - he is loafing. 

Did anyone note Coenie played on the loosehead last Saturday. His best position. Will we see more of this. 

What now - when virtually all posters said Steyn was not up to standard - you said we were fools.   You insisted he played well in the first two matches of Super 15 - but it came out now that he was not up to standard from the word go.

I do not think this is a totally new problem only commencing this year.   What Steyn did this year was an exact replica of what he did in the tests last year.   I think he better get back on track otherwise his career as a player is gone.   You kept on saying he was an automatic choice - but his arguments now seems to be  rubbish - like we all said all along.

The fact that the Sharks backline was disfunctional is now laid  bare and it is evident that the source of the problem was in fact Steyn.

Plumtree must have been pissed off completely - otherwise he would not have said to the press what he did.   I said elsewhere that this may be the best thing to come into the open now.   It could only benefit Steyn's future playing career - that is if he did gt his weight under control and his speed back.

However, as I read the situation his days of playing at 12 is gone and he will have to compete to play at 15 in future.   Although Plumtree did not say that explicitly - I think that is what can be deduced by logical people from the statement.

So Saffex - were  we altogether wrong to criticize Steyn's poor performances?   Please admit you were wrong and we were right.

Playing him at 15..Big mistake. Maybe it will work against the Rebels in Durban but not against any half decent team away from home! Steyn needs to be dropped to Vodacom cup, come off the bench for them but more importantly, work on getting down to 105kgs! (as a starting point!) Steyn is like a crooked fence. He needs to be reduced to rubble and built up again. He has too many problems at the moment to do a "patch up" job! Fucken hell, 118kgs!! Some tight forwards would be proud of that!

My Sharks backs until Whitehead returns:

9. Reinach

10. Lambie

11. Mvovo

12. James

13. Jordaan

14. Pietersen

15. Ludick

Throw Tyler Fisher on the bench too and lets see what he can do in 15-20 mins against the Rebels! People forget, we have James at our disposal. We could sure use that experience at this point!!

I heard that Plum was interviewed on radio and mention Frans weighing 118kg, that is as bad as Os at one stage weighing 156kg before his comeback.

I just love the way Frans has been targeted here when one would swear the rest of the Sharks side has been good. Look no further than JP's form, he has been awful this year, but not a mention is made of him. Same can be said of Jordaan, Reinach, McLeod, Mvovo, Ndungane and Ludik......they have all been average. Lambie has hardly set the world alight at 10. So why is it that Frans gets all the attention?

But its not just a Sharks issue, the Bulls and Stormers backs have been equally ineffective. The likes of Hougaard, Vermaak, Morne, Olivier, Mapoe, Kirchner, Joe, Aplon, Jean and Jantjies have hardly set the world alight have they.

As for moving Frans to 15, that would be a huge mistake, for if he is not yet fit, he will be sorely exposed there and it would mean the useless Bosman would have to play 12. The Sharks better hope Ludik is fit so that Frans stays at 12 - a better move would be to play Riaan Viljoen at 15 and keep Frans at 12, thus leaving the average Bosman on the bench.

Frans was good in his first two games but along with his team mates has slipped in the last two matches. He looked particularly disinterested against the Brumbies.

But man oh man 118kg - what is the newly wed eating? Frans is a class act and will be fine at 12 for the Sharks and will play 12 for the Boks. The intensity of the S15 will get him match fit. Must admit he looked like he had run out of steam last weekend. But to say he has been poor in all 4 games is bullshit and not something Plum said. Frans was our best 12 in the first 2 rounds

JP has not looked great as he is a winger that is not getting any ball in space. You can see the frustration getting to him too and I think that came to a head last week! Frans on the other hand is getting ball and not doing much with it. This is aiding the frustration of guys outside him. Jordaan, JP, Mvovo and Ludik were amazing last year with Whitehead there. I cant help but think, and see that Frans Steyn is the problem. These men dont just all suddenly become ineffective. As I say, Frans needs to sort himself out before he should be playing in this tournament.

Its really difficult to know what the Sharks mood within the team is like now. Its almost like they cant get anything started yet they are still 3 from 4.. Is there finger pointing? Surely they can feel the problem and are under no disillusions that if this keeps up, we might be scrapping it out with the Kings for wooden spoon in the conference, possibly the tournament. Its high time our big guns shake their injuries and come back!!

Thank god we had the Stormers in round 2..They are the Sharks easy beats. No matter what team we field against them, we are too strong and too powerful...We are simply much better!! What you say Beeno?? ;-)

The warning signs started when they played the Kings who they were expected to beat convincingly. As for Whitehead, he was in great form this time last year, got injured and returned never to rediscover that form. He was average in the CC. Jordaan has been disappointing, I dont know what it is with him - I think he lacks the physical edge, but is also a bit of a helter skelter - there is no finesse there - he needs to prove me wrong. JP has been awful and he is one of if not the best wing in the game. When he has got the ball, he has made no impression.

To blame one player like Frans for all this is pathetic and totally uncalled for. Thank goodness Plum sees the quality in Frans and will invest in him as he will do with JP and co

Jordaan and Jp are having a tough time at the moment but they are still in shape, still trying hard. Im telling you, problems are starting with Frans. He is not in to it anymore. Its plain for all to see. How can he let himeslf get to 118 kg's as a Bok back..Fucken hell.. Rugby is his job man. That alone tells me the man is disinterested!

The reason the radio interviewer was targeting Frans Steyn was because he gets the ball. 

JP andJordaan are not playing great, but if the ball never gets pasts first center they cant exactly be blamed for playing badly. 

If the forwards had dominatd the Brumbies, would Frans have passed or just crash balled the hell out of all possesion.

Frans's himself, according to Plums interview, wants to get to 108kg. Its easy to understand how he put on 8kg's given a honeymoon and serious ankle injury and also a lifestyle in France where being in peak shape was obviously not a prerequisite. Having an ankle injury meant he could not run on it. Credit to the lad for losing 8kg in 2 months.

Being a naturally big guy like Frans, its easy to pile on the kg's when you are inactive. Ask me, I have first hand experience and Frans is naturally bigger than me.

I remember Os ballooning to 156kg before he returned to rugby - its easily done

Obviously not interested enough. With an ankle injury, maybe the first few weeks you cant run on it or be too active but then you can start swimming and cycling to keep the weight off after a week or 2. He completely let himself go.

Dave, why is it not up for debate? Is that your call? Well my call is he was not up to scratch in the years you talk about and that is not up for debate. He was kak against the Argies and his injury was a blessing in disguise really! He was average (did his job) in the first game this year and kak thereafter. That is not up for debate. If he was as good as u say he was, why would Plum look to chop him so quickly??

I think you have the thing of softening or downplaying what Plumtree said abouit Steyn.   Not one of the other backline players was mentioned.   Lets take the issue back to Plumtree's earlier statement about the issue of attacking rugby leading to scoring of tries  Plumtree then said that there are problems with the functioning of the Sharks backline and they were working on it.   What followed in the next two matches was that Steyn was subbed in the next game and then moved to 15 in the last game.  

What did that sequence tell us - it tells us that there were problems from the start - not from the thid game onwards.   When I went to see the match in Pietermaritzburg I said that Steyn looked slimmer than he did last year in the tests.  One of the people I talked to then said that he was 115 kgs.   I said I think he was 110kgs - but he should come down another 5 kgs to be an acceptable weight since at 110 kgs he was still too fat.   I did mention at the time that he seemed to be slimmer and faster than he was last year.  I clearly remember that posting and you welcomed the news.

Be it as it may - I think that Steyn last year was also circa 118kgs in weight.  That meant that the observations about his speed and weight last year in the tests were fully jutified and he was very average to poor then - same as he was this year.  After two month they got him down from 118 kgs to 110 kgs.   That means that he was around 114 kgs at the time of Round 2 - his speed was still slow - even slower than he was in Round 5 and he was no good in the series from the first game the Sharks played - not only in Rounds 4 and 5.

What is clear now is that Frans is just not in the form that allows for him to play at 12.   A lot of posters on this Board said so and there is no doubt about it that they were right - he showed nothing from the start of the series - same as he showed nothing in the tests last year.  His perfrmances were similar in all the games he played from last year to date.   

I think the suggestion that he remains at 12 is facetious and won't happen.   I think that he might be moved to 15 or he is more likely to be on the bench and Viljoen at 15 until they can get him back to the weight of 105 or 106 kgs and get his speed higher.   When he then returns and Whitehead is back - Steyn will NOT be played at 12 - but at 15.   That opens up he issue of who would play at 12 for the Sharks until Whitehead returns.   It may be that - like in the Super Series final last year - Plumtree may move Jordaan to 12 and move Pietersen (another serious struggler with form) to 13. The altenative would be to use Bosman at 12 and let Jordaan and Pietersen  remain at 13 and 14.  

I think effectively Steyn will not in future be played at center again.   Meyer won't do it if Plumtree does not do it and the whole Steyn issue would by now have ben discussed between Meyer and Plumtree and some understanding developed.    It really is disappointing to me - and it must be the same with you.

I think that we should accept that Steyn's days of playing at center is gone and that it won't appen again.  The choice of 12 is  now down to De Allende and Serfontein.   I hope Serfontein get some game time whilst Olivier is injured and that he develops further.   Be it as it may - Serfontein will play in the Junior WC in June and my guess is that in the June series De Allende would be the 12.   I think we all agree that De Villiers is not a long term prospect - and I think that he would be 13 - to allow for him to support De Allende in the first few tests.   Ultimately De Villiers will be replaced and I think the player on the inside track for that will be Jordaan - but that would be determined by the improvement shown by Jordaan after the  Steyn era at 12 finishes. 

I think that Whitehead is a bit on the slow side (faster than Steyn though) but he is a clever player that can create space for the players outside of him and he is a good defender as well.  He did the job for the Sharks last year at 12 well and th backline did function well - so he is the choice at 12.

You keep on asking why Steyn is being mentioned since the whole backline of the Sharks was not performing on the required level.   I gave the reasoning on the issue elsewhere and you might miss it - so I am repeating it  here as well.

It certainly is not rocket science why all the attention on the Sharks backline failure is concentrated on Steyn. There were two important changes made to the excellent backline of 2012 that functoned so well for the Sharks and those were to move Lambie to flyhalf and play Steyn at 12.

Lambie is doing very well at 10 - but the backline remained disfunctional. That is why the focus was on 12 and not anywhere else. 11, 13 and 14 can only function properly if 12 functions properly.

So lets get back to the situation - Lambie is no problem at 10 and Steyn is disfunctional at 12 - that cancels out performances outside of 12. When Steyn was subbed in the Kings game - the backline started to function better. That showed that the problem was in fact at 12 and that the outside backs can perform better if the problem at 12 was solved.

The same applies to his first two performances in the S15, where in week one he made the SA side of the week and in week two be made the S15 side of the week. You dont do that playing crap rugby.

Not sure where you get that he put on 15kg, he has weighed 110kg for a long time, he put on 8kg to reach 118kg. He is now back down to 110kg and wants to get down to 108kg, which is below his standard weight.

Mike stop making it up, the Sharks backs have all been poor and that has stuff all to do with Frans. The Sharks backline did NOT improve against the Kings when Bosman came on.

I look at the statements made by Plumtree and the sequence of events following those when I try and make logical deductions.   I also look at the broad functioining of the Sharks backline in 2012 compared to thus far this year and what was changed in that period.

Facts are  -

*   that Plumtree said there was a problem in the Sharks backline and they are working on it - there was no improvement in the subsequyent game and Steyn was subbed because of the disfunction of the backline in the Southern King game;;

*   despite your denial - the backline was definitely better after the departure of Steyn in the Kings game;  and

*   the changes since last year that had impacted on the backline - of which there were  only 2 real changes of significance.

Lambie played well enough - so the problem was not with him.  The other change was Steyn and I am not surprised that he was placed under the microscope and found wanting.   All the other players in the game did so some flashes of good play - Steyn NEVER did.   That is why he was siuled out and not for any other reason.   He in fact was disfunctional at 12 - and that effected the players outside of him.  

You apparently refused to recognize that Plumtree said that Steyn was not meeting expectations and I wish  to quote to extractions from the report to emphasize what was said:-

*   "It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that he's not quite at his best,"

*  "He's a quality player and that won't just dry up and go away. I think he has a bit of work to do and he'll admit that himself."

The way you make out that Steyn was the fall guy here - makes me laugh.  He definitely was not - he was targetted because he failed in performance - nothing else.  I and others warned that things are not workig out - but you attacked us for being fools.   However, that is past tense and only my question is now - since you refuse to recognose what so amny others recognized - do you need a brain surgeon?   LOL

The Sharks backs fired with Michalak at 10 in 2012 - what does that say about Lambie this year?

Lambie showed major improvements on his performances in the last two games after Plumtree spoke originally - Steyn did not and that is the difference.  

Still needs a brain surgeon?   LOL