Plumtree leaves Sharks today instead of finishing the SuperXV

 No point in having an angry lame duck around. This guy has done enough damage, he certainly didn't help Lambie, mocked Fransie and played Steph injured. These guys are assets of the national game in RSA...and he was no custodian.

I wouldn't have had him around even if you had to pay him....better yet if you can reach a settlement.

Finding out he never had a job in the media, and then goes through this saga his morale and motivation must be so low it would make no point in him continuing.

He was himself vocal in the media about his players so perhaps their is some justice, although his comments were probably accurate to begin with. Frans Steyn weighing more than the props at 125kg, saying that Kankowski was out of form and dropping him for the overseas tour. Not sure what he did to Lambie other than moving him around allot.

Looks like Smit has takent the nice guy hat off and replaced it with his arsehole hat.

Truly amazing how so many people change when given a little power.

From an average Joe suddenly transformed to a god in his own eyes!!

Never liked him. Still don't.

Plum was given a raw deal here.

We would welcome him to the Lions any day.

crazy to see plumtree let go, especially when at the start of this year folks here and on other SA forums were talking about him making a good Boks coach, o_O
oh to be a fly on the wall at sharks HQ.

i would love to see plumtree coach he hurricanes but thats a long shot, wish him all the best though.

I think the way the Sharks especially John Smit has treated Plumtree is dreadful, he has done well for the Sharks in the past and he has had to deal with player injuries and a team that didn't seem to gel together but be that as it may, Plumtree deserves better treatment than he got and I am very disappointed in the whole Sharks Board, I have no respect for John Smit anymore

 John Mitchell experienced a player revolt when he ran his own players down in the media.

Perhaps this is also when the wheels really started falling off for Plumtree, when he said that Kankowski was totally out of form after returning from Japan and then dropping him for the overseas tour. 

Around the same time he was also dropping Steyn for being overweight, and telling the media that the Frans Steyn that showed up at preseason training was a 120kg beast.

Then also slating the squad in general in the media by saying thahad st senior players were out of form, and then announcing that Frans Steyn had started a personal boot camp training and was not available for selection.

Not sure how it is in NewZealand, but talking about SA players negatively in the media does not seem to go down well with our players

Enough of a revolt to be suspended and have a legal action.....hard to coach when you are suspended ...hey? Mitchell also had problems at the Force......if you can't keep the support of the team, you will fail. Likewise Plum. I told you when this guy went public on Steyn he was toast. You disagreed. So, who was right?

 Here you go again Mike, you've been proven wrong in the past about Steyn's involvement in the 'player revolt' yet your ego still has you believe your wrong opinion. Fransie most likely disliked the fact that his coach left him out to dry by mentioning his exact weight in public, then we come to this so called player revolt in which Steyn had little to no involvement and in fact has been known to inspire the younger players. Yes Frans has been out of form, but form is temporary class is permanent.

It's really quite simple Oom. I was right about Plum blowing it...you were wrong. Accept it with good grace, there's a good chap.

 Suddenly one player has become bigger than the franchise, it's certainly not uncommon for coaches to mention the form of specific players in the media, Fergie did this loads, it's the way the player responds that demonstrates character.  Pat Lam mentioned Piri Weepu's weight last year and he responded positively.  Players aren't above criticism, especially marquee players being paid a fortune who are not delivering results.

Frans Steyn was fat and out of form and having to be conditioned mid season.  I fail to see the issue in his coach answering a question honestly when Franz Steyn's condition and frankly lack of porfessionalism was obvious to everyone.  

The fact is Plum has done more for the Sharks franchise than fatboy Frans, he didn't deserve this treatment.  The Sharks deserve everything they get now.

It was common knowledge that Frans was overweight yes, but Plum didn't have a question asking Frans exact weight it was a statement/answer to a question regarding Steyn's form that he said the exact numbers. Mike Frans was regaining good form before his injury. There more evidence suggesting he was not part of divide in the Sharls camp than him being the catalyst of the divide. Steyn's form was so-so last year, in the English tests he kept Tuilangi at bay whilst De Villiers was getting ruined by Manu's runs and in those tests he had good form but then began to drop a bit in the RC. 

This Super 15 he started off well and where you were constantly saying he 'He never passes, all he does is crashball' He kept the Sharks in the game against the Cheetahs with his decent runs and OFFLOADING ability. After that when the Sharls began to struggle Plum blamed Steyn for all his problems and when he removed the problems persisted, my opinion is backline strategy and a lack of form from Pat Lambie.

Steph Du Toit wants to leave the Sharks when his contract expires in October, although there are currently big efforts being made to keep him. The reason he wants to leave..............he believes the Sharks have jeopardised his career by forcing him to play for a month with the same injury that forced him out the Bok team. Dont be surprised if it announced in the next few weeks that he is joining the Bulls. John Smit is actively trying to get him and a few other senior players to stay, promising that mis-management of players will never happen again.

You can take this to the bank.

 Mike I would agree with you regarding Bulls being destructive for Backline players careers, not so much Forward players.

ive always enjoyed the New Zealand touch with the Sharks with plumtree. he is a good coach and unfortunately just coudnt get the Super Rugby trophy. He had 5 years to get it but he failed. Time for new blood.

It is sad that he leaves on a sour note especially when it was Plums who always stood up for John ( from reports) but hey we dont really know the finer details. 

Life goes on and so do the Sharks! 

If Mance is right, Plum really deserves to be canned. And his comments about Frans may be the norm elsewhere, but only coaching bullies attack their players in the media. Bullies and guys who  are at a loss as to how to turn things around.

We can't afford coaches who don't put players health first.

 Alex Ferguson a bully...maybe, but nobody questioned his results.  If he is getting the arse because of Frans Steyn then the Sharks have lost the plot...

He is getting the hook because he no longer has the support of the players......regardless of whether you think that's deserved poi-e.....it's invariably fatal.

Plum was not dealt with correctly by lardy who clearly is a green horn and out of his depth. Thankfully for the sharks they have Dr Brendon Venter to hold his hand.

Plum mentioned facts about Frans that were patently obvious to all and certainly it was not an attack. veyone but snapster could see he was overweight and sluggish and way off his best - folk wanted to kno wwhat was being done to rectify matters and Plum gave honest sensible answers

Mallet gets a call saying Smit is interested in you coaching the Shakrs how about it. Smit latter says he is thankful Nick tuned it down. Man how weird is that. Nick would obviously have thought Smit had had the decency to tell Plum he was out befre making the offer!  Please Moz if Smit wanted mallet as coach the appoval of the Board is a mere formality. You dont tell your new CEO tha the cant have the head coach he wants. Hence Mallet felt free to mention it in media.

Smit then make comments about how bad Nick is to let the media know when heshould havce told Plum he i sout  before all this and lardy then laments how hurtful things must have been for Plum - never mind to Nick whose name he drag sthrough the mud. Lardy then discloses that Jake made enquiries which is damaging to White if true. Jake is under contract to the Brumbies (And has said he is ver yhappy ther and not interested in any othe rcoaching job)  and couldnt possibly take up a post with the sharks so did Jake really say he was interested in the job - sound like bulldust to me.

We also have the self serving of lardy using his captaincy to play before the widely acknowledged best hooker in the wolrd at the world cup. We have Plum dropping him in favour of Bissie. We have lardy droping Plum.

Here is an article by Keo:

Respect is earned. John Plumtree as a player and coach did his time. He earned the right to respect but he was shown none in the manner of his axing as Sharks coach.

There are those who are lauding former Sharks and Springbok captain and new Sharks CEO John Smit for making what is being called ‘the difficult decisions’ with immediate effect.

I am not among them.

I believe Plumtree, true to the Sharks for two decades, deserved to be treated with integrity. He deserved to be judged on his pedigree as a coach. This was a decision that was premeditated and it is why Plumtree simply felt he couldn’t continue to see out the last six weeks of Super Rugby when the incoming CEO and Board had no faith in his ability.

Plumtree would have got the required financial payout but payment should have come with integrity and common decency and he was never shown this.

The Sharks administration has long described the Kwazulu-Natalians as a brand – and they treated their head coach more as a dispensable object than engaging human being.

Plumtree led the Sharks to the Super Rugby and Currie Cup finals a year ago. He was named South African coach of the year and yet he was considered not good enough to continue as coach of the Sharks six months later? (HERE ONE SEES THE DANGER AND FOLLY  OF PURELY LOOKING AT THE SCOREBOARD AND NOT ALSO AT CONTEXT. 19 INJURIES SKUTTLED PLUM THIS YEAR - A YEAR WHERE THE SHARKS MIGHT HAVE WON THE SUPER 15)

Smit played under Plumtree but Smit was also second choice for the Sharks in 2011 when Plumtree preferred the playing dynamic of Bismarck du Plessis. Plumtree was outspoken about who he rated the better option in 2011. Smit, by his action, has been as outspoken about how he rates Plumtree as a Sharks coach.

There was a history and it would appear that history has come into play.

How unfortunate.

Plumtree won’t talk ill of the Sharks or of Smit. It is not his style.

Smit has said all the right things in press conferences. It is his style.

The manner of the dismissal was a style I had never associated with Smit, as a player and leader of the Sharks and Springboks.

Smit’s decision has its supporters and only time can vindicate the decision.

But my criticism of Smit is not about whether to fire or retain Plumtree. It is all about how it was done.

I expected better. I know I am not alone.

The Sharks play the Blues this weekend and Plumtree will be willing them to victory. It is his way.

Why is it that the good guys in rugby get shafted? And the Sharks will only realise how much they shafted a good guy in his absence. This was a guy who gave 20 years service to the Sharks and espoused the cultural values of a team in which integrity was non negotiable.

He was a man who enjoyed success as a player and coach. He has not been judged on performance alone.

Plumtree will succeed as a coach elsewhere. The Sharks will have success in the future, but what the brand managers of the Sharks – or Smit – won’t have success with is putting a spin on how easy it was to turn on one of their own under the guise of tough love. (Hoor Hoor)

It sucks. Go well Plum.

All the very best Plum - sorry you could not be replacing our Allistair!

What amazes me is that this fine man was a nz oak! Have we found another Justin Marshall right under our noses!!!! That makes two honest kiwis in the world - knock me down with a feather! Maybe it was just the good influence we had on him?

Well it appears Plum is laughing all the way to the bank!

Cape Town - The Sharks will have to pay John Plumtree for the next two years after the coach left the union following a meeting with new CEO John Smit, a report on the Beeld website indicates.

This comes after Plumtree - who was earlier sacked by Smit - met with the Sharks boss on Tuesday to discuss the terms of his release.

Plumtree was due to coach the Sharks until the end of this year's Super Rugby competition, but stepped down with immediate effect following the meeting.

He brought his legal team to the meeting to argue that he should be paid out for the full two-year contract extension he was promised by the current CEO, Brian van Zyl. (ARGUED and won it seems - impplying lardy had fouled up?)

Van Zyl, who is set to step down from his role, recently indicated he wanted the Sharks to keep Plumtree as head coach. Plumtree's legal team argued that Van Zyl's verbal agreement with him is binding.

And that verbal agreement between Van Zyl and Plumtree now means the Sharks will have to cough up for the next two years, even though Plumtree won't be part of their plans.

Smit also recently announced the appointment of Brendan Venter as new Director of Rugby at the Sharks. Venter will perform the role of overseeing all coaching proceedings at the union, while former Sharks flank Brad MacLeod-Henderson is the favourite to fill the head coach position, starting in this year's Currie Cup. (I hear Venter will still be based in Somerset West so he can continue with his medical practice and will still be consulting to Saracens!!!)

Meanwhile, the Sharks confirmed on Wednesday that assistant coaches Grant Bashford and Hugh Reece-Edwards will take over the team's coaching duties for the remainder of the Super Rugby competition.

Nonsense Maaik.....you don't keep somebody in charge when you know they have to go, it compromises your own integrity. Nor do you inform somebody by letter that they are fired....this isn't the Natal Provincial Administration.

Moz do you think appointing a guy who has just finished playing as CEO is a wise move. Being a rugby captain and CEO are not the same.

Clevermike,

The story about Steph Du Toit is not fiction.....it happened. The fact is when he had his first medical upon arriving at the Boks he was sent packing. It's common knowledge within the Sharks camp that he had been struggling with the injury for some time and only after the Bok medical team sent him to various specialists was it decided he needed surgery. The Sharks did not do the same. Believe me, he is a very unhappy young chap at the moment and only some sharp persuasion will keep him in Durban.

You are correct in a way about some divisions in the Sharks camp but it is not as serious as some make out. The problems really started when Plum started panicking with the injuries and poor performances and brought in a host of Lions players. This was a fatal mistake as it sent a message to the fringe players that they were not good enough. The main reason why Juandre Marais is on his way. You must also remember that Frans Steyn was already out of the picture with injury by this time.

Plum also let personal issues cloud his judgement hence the very poor excuse that Kanko was in poor condition thus his exclusion from the touring squad. Kanko was ready to hit the road but has now re-signed with the Sharks.

One last thing. Any thought that there is bad blood between Smit and Bismark is pure fiction. They are very good friends......ask any Shark or Bok player.

sharks have big name players and so much talent in their squad they are way better thann what theyve done under Plum. his poor management i think continued from where muir let the team down and they needed a change. i think plum hasnt achieved anything great with this group of players.

 Michalak was the form Flyhalf in SuperXV for 2012.

How much have the Sharks missed him?

I remember reading an article by Brendan Venter talking about the game plan of the various SA teams in the SuperXV.

He said that the Sharks appeared to have no game plan in 2013. 

Michalak was playing well in 2012 but Lambie has been very average

it makes a big deal who is coaching the players and i think we'll see better things from guys like lambie and frans and other younger fringe players. i mean they have a springbok front row and springboks all over the place a team like that should be kicking serious ass. good luck to plum but i think smit made the right choice. its sad to see so many players not achieving their best performances and i think a guy like lambie has really suffered i mean his senior time has been in this environment from the beginning and he had to take the resonsibility of taking backlie expectations as well. things can only get better from here. i remember how exciting the sharks used to be to watch maybe the new coach will turn it around.