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FORUM / RUGBY /  Poms and Boks play different rugby?

Poms and Boks play different rugby?

Started by Mozart10 REPLIES386 VIEWS· 06 Dec 2016, 17:36
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Dec 2016, 17:36
#1
06 Dec 2016, 17:36#1
The numbers say no. In the Pom test we kicked out of hand 33 times...they kicked 36 times. Poms gained 451 metres.....Boks 395 Poms beat 17 defenders .....Boks 12 poms had 121 carries....Boks 124 poms offloads 8....Boks 6 Poms turned the ball over 12 times....Boks 18 So what do we conclude? The Boks and Poms ran the ball and kicked the ball almost exactly the same number of times. Trouble is, the Poms did it better. They turned the ball over less, beat more defenders and made marginally more metres per carry. It seems it's much more a matter of execution. The fact is Youngs tortured Stephanie for enough metres to even things up. It's that close. The Poms kick more than we do, run a bit less, but do it better.....and they are on a 14 game win streak......so let's change the way we play the game. Very, very immature thinking.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2016, 17:54
#2
06 Dec 2016, 17:54#2
 Mozart
I read till I got to the mentioning of Du Toit and then lost interest - have you nothing else to write about?  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Dec 2016, 18:01
#3
06 Dec 2016, 18:01#3
 "I read till I got to the mentioning of Du Toit and then lost interest....."

So, you read about 7 0% of it, correct?
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
06 Dec 2016, 18:39
#4
06 Dec 2016, 18:39#4
Any team will have similar stats to the other- if the game is close for most of the match. 
Turnovers conceded, and offloads account for most of the tries in a match- and can be more consequential stats. 
There is no stat for a number of times running into space versus running into traffic, or kicking into space versus into areas with no space, faster ball recovery when space exists vs no space.

On paper sometimes the All Blacks kick more, but if it is the best option in some matches. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Dec 2016, 19:36
#5
06 Dec 2016, 19:36#5
Sure, but we know how the space was created.....by Stephanie biting on two dummies....and Combrink being slow to turn and then losing the ball. There you have 3 of the 4 Pom tries....not brilliant play, not kicking or running into space, the defenders were in position...school boy defensive execution from the Boks.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
06 Dec 2016, 20:38
#6
06 Dec 2016, 20:38#6
England like South Africa are teams that could win tests with 9 or 10 man rugby because they have traditionally had the biggest packs. This meant preventing the other team playing 15 man rugby- and they win. Just limit turnovers and only kick into space, they can use their ball carriers to subdue the opposition. 
When they add the 15 man dimension to the pack- they are contenders for being in the top 1-3. (Like the 2007 Boks, and 2003 English)
The English backline move that left the Bok defence in shambles in the first half from the first phase was solid. There were dummy runners on both sides- especially Venter. That was on Northern Hemisphere pitches- so on a harder pitch, I expect they will be more expansive. 
Stephanie never closed down the inside space at the ruck twice and left a gaping hole to run into.  The Bok defence was getting stretched- and in both cases going wide was also an option. Ben Youngs probably could have still stepped Stephanie on the outside instead of the inside- at least once- or drew the outside defence closer in before passing wide.
No scrumhalf or open side flanker support- did put more pressure on Stephanie to protect the outside gap.- and was a combined team and individual error. 
The Springbok up and under's were poor- and usually just giving the ball back to the opposition, while Englands Ben Youngs kicks always had the height to allow competition in the air. 
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
06 Dec 2016, 21:23
#7
06 Dec 2016, 21:23#7
Du Toit was guilty of buying both those dummies of Youngs but is not alone in fault for those tries.
 Defensive systems usually allow for a guard and bodyguard (2 pillars) either side of the ruck when not competing. Body guard (outside) covers 9 sideways and angled runners back in while Guard (inside) covers 9 dummy and go (what we saw happen to Du Toit) and the inside pass to blind runner. 
We seem to be spreading out at ruck defence to put more numbers in the line but leaving us thin at ruck and fringe areas. Defensive structures at fault or simply lack of communication, who knows? 
Our defence has been woeful this year and I dont just mean slipping off tackles but our alignement or lack of it rather.



TLDR: 
 Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on defence coach!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Dec 2016, 22:05
#8
06 Dec 2016, 22:05#8
 Du Toit, Du Toit, Du Toit - you must be besotted to keep up the refrain - not worth reading constant and utter BS.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Dec 2016, 00:04
#9
07 Dec 2016, 00:04#9
Shall we go over how the Italian slug stripped du Toit of the last lineout.....hahaha.....poor old Poofter.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Dec 2016, 03:24
#10
07 Dec 2016, 03:24#10
  And  how Matfield was stripped of the ball in the 2014 AB test in Johannesburg = confirmed poofter?   
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
07 Dec 2016, 21:12
#11
07 Dec 2016, 21:12#11
 Where do the data come from?

Usually, team analysists order specific data to be collected to monitor the efficiency of their team.

Agencies that collect  data can repackage them to sell to other customers like broadcasting networks, newspapers etc That kind of data mean little and are only an extra source of revenues.
— END OF THREAD —

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