Pro 18 or Bust?

Starting a new thread, but worth talking about

I for one would have love to have gone back to the super 12 or even super 14. That format worked and all of us were happy. 

I would also say that it is time to dump the kings once and for all. They were only there to promote black rugby and have never been viable. Besides, the sharks have become our conveyer belt for black talent that is excelling 

So lets say Pro 18

I guess 2 conferences of 9 teams each with 4/5 home games unless they do the brave thing and actually create 2 Divisions

But to be honest, I really hate the conference format with a passion. It is so hard to follow

The should just have 2 leagues that alternate every year, so the stormer would play munster ever other year twice. 

Have a home and away game which should be at least 18 games

The local derbies can be played outside of the competition

any suggestions of how this could work for SA? 

Harsh as it is to say it, I don't think the Kings will be missed too much. The problem is if you get rid of the Kings you end up with 17 teams which won't work for a conference system. That means the Cheetahs would likely get the axe too which would be rather unfair on them.

Problem in creating the 2 divisions is none of the present clubs would willing go down. I mean you could select the bottom teams but midfield teams will not like being relegated for 4 incoming SA teams, unless the SA teams where willing to go into division 2 along with the bottom 5 from this seasons Pro 14.

None of the northern hemisphere countries will want to give up on any derby matches, they are too much of a money spinner.

There seems to be a problem in negotiation with the proposed set-up and an announcement on the issue will likely be made this week.   From what one could be gleaned from the newspapers that surfaced over the last four months what is proposed is a 16 team format with the Kings and Cheetahs shown the door in Guinness Pro 14,   According to comments from the Cheetahs coach  they are unsure whether the Cheetahs will remain in the Pro 14. 

The problem with the Cheetahs team was they do not have the strong financial backing needed to retain players and the European Clubs have raided them and they lost two many go od players - which make them less competitive.  

Should the number of teams be increased to 16 it  would entail two pools where each team would play 14 matches in a season - seven a home and seven away,   To that must be added quarterfinals, semi-finals and final.   That means 17 games for the winners in a season - not an insurmountable problem I believe.

Another aspect to be negotiated is whether the SA teams will participate in the European Champions Cup and the European Challenge Cup.   I have a feeling that SA would request that the top 4 teams be  included in the first comp mentioned and the Cheetahs and Kings in the second  one.

I am sure World Rugby is going to have their own inputs as well and with Roux becoming their CEO there  may be some pressure applied - it  would not be advisable to isolate SA  from playing in Regional Competitions.

The problem is that with this kind of negotiation the sponsors often has a major say on what will go forward, so it is more complicated than it sounds,    

Well, latest news is that we are not kicked out but that it is only NZ 2021 plan, but they did a great job at that, but I think they are going for Broadcast money grab deal with Fox or even rumours that Amazon prime was bidding for sport streaming rights. 

Unfortunately NZ is no longer the number 1 team but 3. NZ would be lost if they were not the number 1 team as they will lose a lot of market value which will destroy their current central contracting system 

Also, looks like we will have the curry cup back with strength vs strength teams. 

14 games to be played until 14 December 

But I think that is the right move to show the value of the currie and restore it into a proper competition  

Going back to the a prior format won't work as SH has been poisoned by the ELVs. The substandard rugby that has erroded our skills in multiple facets of the game need to go. It cannot be reversed, so we go north. That's the answer. 

Whoever is in charge of the game, is fiddling with the laws too much. Everytime they change a law to curb something they see as undesirable, the consequences are even less desirable. 

Someone got it into their head that rugby should only be about running and scoring backline tries and that the laws should be tweaked to facilitate this...utter BS, but after 25 years of so called professional rugby, the penny is yet to drop.

AO's comments is about as empty as anyone can imagine.  Lets put it mildly - in 2015 their was not a single NH team in the semi's of the RWC and in 2019 there were 2 - England and Wales,  Although that improved on 2019 - the fact is that in the bronze final the AB's beat the Welsh 40 -17 and SA beat the English 32 - 12 representing the biggest margins ever in such games.

The NH Clubs seems to get more and more players from SH teams to keep their rugby going and some of the better coaches come from the SH countries.  According to AO SH rugby is all bad - but then he does not really realize what happened on rugby over the last decade,  The NH countries are trying to get them recipe right by copying the playing styles of the SH teams.  

Super rugby sides can't scrum, maul, ruck, tackle, kick or pass more than a metre. Case Closed. Hence, the NH has a progressively favourable record against the SH trio over the past ten years. 

Aug

Strange point, considering England lost the WC final on the back of a poor scrum. 

Would be nice to know the defensive stats of the three big SH sides vs the NH in the WC.

Well, I for one think that the teams have indeed caught up and most of our discards or Journey men became better players, playing up north

Here are a few names that actually won the World Cup but wasn't a local based player

Louw

De Klerk

Le Roux

Vermeulen 

Mostert

Steyn

Kolbe 

Then don't forget Reinach who has been in incredible form and probably really unlucky to miss out. Just too much talent at 9 to accommodate everyone 

So I don't think our rugby would be worse off, if anything. It will us keep track of our other players up north

KC

For that we have Felix Jones in Dublin - he has the  function to monitor players playing for Cluibs in Europe.    That is also a first introduced by Erasmus.

KC

For that we have Felix Jones in Dublin - he has the  function to monitor players playing for Cluibs in Europe.    That is also a first introduced by Erasmus.

AO

Claims that " Super rugby sides can't scrum, maul, ruck, tackle, kick or pass more than a metre"

The problem is that this chap is on site for entertainment because of his absolute lack of knowledge of the game.   He specializes in making wild claims like the quoted ones and then expect us to enjoy the joke because there really is not a single proof of what he says ever been the case,   Best advice in his case is \that when he makes a statement - just accept the opposite is true, 

Next point he makes  -   Hence, the NH has a progressively favourable record against the SH trio over the past ten years."      

What was the record over the last ten years of the NH test teams he flounders about?   Not a single  WC title won - the AB's won in 2011 and SA in 2019 - in his case the latter fact has not his home yet.   The NH teams cannot pride them  on their achievements in the WC.   Other than here and there for a few weeks during WC periods none of the NH teams has held the number 1 ranking in WC during the decade.   Most of the tour tests - whether incoming or outgoing has show any superiority over SH teams by NH teams,

This would have been even worse for the NH countries if SA in 8 of the ten years had even half-decent coaches.                                                            

" Unfortunately the alternative for SA sides looks like a very poor option. The Pro 14 is a crap competition that excludes English and French clubs and the Irish and Welsh sides tend to often play their reserve players in this competition - evidencing the low value placed on it"

The Pro 14 has its issues but its not crap.It doesn't exclude the French or English clubs, its simply not an English or French League, that's like saying Super Rugby excludes English and French teams. Watching the average Pro 14 game versus the average Gallagher Premiership you're not going notice much difference.  You will notice a difference when looking at the French league though, you will notice how slow it is.

The inclusion of South African teams could fix the issues with the Pro. If the South African's are eligible to qualify for Europe and start taking some of the 7 qualifying spots it could force the better teams in the league to play their stronger teams more often.

If you add in the SA Super Rugby teams to the Pro 14 then without a doubt the overall standard of the team in that league would be better than the overall standard the English or French leagues.

@Saffex

Well so do I and I've watched both and I've noticed no difference. I've seen great games in both (and some utter crap too)

Are you saying the French league is crap because the English aren't in it and the English league is crap because the French aren't in that. You can't have all of them at once.

Super rugby was, once upon a time, almost equal to test rugby in skill and intensity. That hasn't been so for well over a decade. It is a farce, a substandard competition of candyfloss pansy ball.