PSDT at 4

If Eztebeth gets a rest, PSDT could try the 4 position. Then have Mosert at 5. This would be a very mobile lock combination. 
The LeadHead DeJager factor was not on par with the rest. I doubt he has the mobility to play 80 minutes of running- unlike the other 3. 
Dupreez was pretty quiet when he got on the pitch. 

 SB'
You must be careful  - you will get mauled by some of out members.   Remember that Du Toit according to a member has got thin wrists - thin shoulders and a long neck and should not be in the Springbok squad because of physical inadequacy and especially poor defending.
I think that the Etzebeth - Dt Toit lock combination is ideal even though a more active Etzebeth would even improve their effectiveness.    
 

 Du Toit is more athletic, better tackler, better ball carrier and better ball skills. The only thing Etezbeth is better at is getting involved every time theres handbags.

 
Well ... I think that puts to rest any nonsense spread by Moffie.

I've said it once ... I'll say it again, Pieter Steff Du Toit is undoubtedly the best lock in the country and could easily compete for the King of the Hill globally.

All this time wasting away on the bench. Can only imagine what kind of momentum he would have had if he'd been selected to start every test this year.

Seems those thin wrists and shoulders are just what one needs to dominate every fascet of play.

 CC, you neglected to mention the long neck!

 
Haaaahahahaaa!! Yeah, sorry.

Is this man naturally talented or what?

 Yes, very talented, but concerns about missed tackles were warranted. I  hope he sorted that for good.

It may sound as though I'm defending Moz again but it's not even close to that. Five years ago everybody knew that PSDT had all the talent in the world but he was a green horn youngster at the time who caught the limelight when he played in the JRWC. We have lots of players who shine at that tournament and many of them do not really come to light till many years later. That brings me to an issue that I have had for ages about pushing these youngsters. I have been branded as one who only wants the old guys in the team because of my critique against some of these youngsters. The reality is that it is, IMO, also unfair on them to keep pushing them like this. How many years did it take to have a hard solid injury free PSDT? Was it really necessary to do that to him? To keep playing him and getting him injured time and again. Have him play against and with his peers until he is really ready. Not when all the so-called telly experts on forums and in the media want him to be God's gift to mankind. Had he been afforded the time to develop in a slower more sensible way, he would by now probably have been a solid certainty in the starting 15 with a certain position and role on the team. He is not the only one. How many young "future greats" have fallen away and become just your average international player? Players who could all have been brilliant had they been given the time to develop and not been rushed onto the big stage. Lambie, Goosen, Reinach, Serfontein, Kriel, Lood de Jager, Faf de Klerk, Jantjies, etc, etc. I think that it is time that SARU, the Bok coaches, the media and, most of all, the spectators/supporters acknowledge this and give the players the time to do their thing without pushing them to soon and putting them on little pedestals. For me it is always sad in sport when these youngsters don't live up to the expectations and then get shoved aside like a piece of shyte. Imagine if Kriel, Jantjies, Lambie or any of those were one of your sons and you and/or him has to read all this crap that people say about them shortly after they were all singing his praises.

 Pollution again - We were discussing Du Toit - and the end result is another puiece of pollution from known quarters.  
By the way selection should be based on performance - not on age - but  that is apparently only accepted by thinking members on the site.  

Ag f@kof, jou eentonige doos.

 Pollution continued =- help heer koning.  

 Mike I was highly impressed with him in the Wallaby test.....given time he might be the next best thing...who knows?

 Denny
Du Toit was always a class act.   Like all players he had some poor tests - but those were in a minority,    I think that the combination of Du Toit and Etzebeth isi in a way ideal.  
They can turn into a much better center combination than Botha and Matfield ever was.   Botha was more the Etzebeth type of player with less ball skills and a powerhouse in Tight 5 playing.   However, Etzebeth is more athletic than Botha ever was.
Du Toit had three distinct advantages over Matfield and thiose are -
*    he has better ball skills and sense than Matfield had - evidence by the scoring of tries thus far and the making of tries as well;
*    he contributed to Tight 5 play - where Matfield was a below par contributor - his light weight made Matfield good in line-outs because he was easily lifted by support players - but other than that he made very little contribution in tight 5 play and in Bakkies own words were more often than not standing around in the backline; and
*    when involved in a passing game Du Toit is way more competent than Matfield was.
In essense I think that the Etzebeth - Du Toit combination would be what is talked about in future as the best SA lock combination ever.  
 

 Windpomp I agree with your comment. Player management in South Africa has often been disastrous. Another point, you should learn from your defeats but here there are so many agendas the lessons are ignored.

"They can turn into a much better center combination than Botha and Matfield ever was." You might want to revisit that remark. ??

Well in Matfield's case he has a point.

I will debunk his point later tonight when I have access to my laptop. It is difficult to do that on iPhone.

 
Mallet was calling for Du Toit to be used sparingly way back when he first came onto the scene.

He was right. Du Toit was out injured on a regular basis.

I hope he's over his injuries now. Certainly looks like it. A class act.  

Well now lots of Stephanie hype based on one test against some very ordinary Aussie locks. What exactly did Stephanie do in that test....he collected one ball against the throw after Etzebeth tipped it at the front of the lineout.....he made 6 tackles, none particularly challenging....he managed to secure one penalty at the start of the game when an Aussie fell unprotected at his feet....he did 2 or maybe even 3 pick and go's as the Aussies slept at the back of the ruck, incredible really because that is Stephanie's thing. ... He had a very productive test. .. But he has had similar performances before, and failed to sustain them....against Ireland last year for example. Let's see how he goes against NZ and a set of proper locks.

 clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 27297RE: PSDT at 4
September 11, 2017, 11:12:00

 Denny
Du Toit was always a class act.   Like all players he had some poor tests - but those were in a minority,    I think that the combination of Du Toit and Etzebeth isi in a way ideal.  
They can turn into a much better center combination than Botha and Matfield ever was.   Botha was more the Etzebeth type of player with less ball skills and a powerhouse in Tight 5 playing.   However, Etzebeth is more athletic than Botha ever was.
Du Toit had three distinct advantages over Matfield and thiose are -
*    he has better ball skills and sense than Matfield had - evidence by the scoring of tries thus far and the making of tries as well; [See no 1]
*    he contributed to Tight 5 play - where Matfield was a below par contributor [See no 2] - his light weight made Matfield good in line-outs because he was easily lifted by support players [See no 3] - but other than that he made very little contribution in tight 5 play and in Bakkies own words were more often than not standing around in the backline [See no 4]; and
*    when involved in a passing game Du Toit is way more competent than Matfield was. [See no 5]
In essense I think that the Etzebeth - Du Toit combination would be what is talked about in future as the best SA lock combination ever. [See no 6]
1. Oh really? Check this clip. In fairness to PSDT I searched to see if I could find something similar for him but most of the clips are interviews with him with only one tribute clip.https://youtu.be/_RR-ljRCIT8

That is only one clip. There are numerous other similar clips but I don't expect that you would go looking for clips about someone who you have such a deep dislike in.
2. May I ask you once again what proof you have that Matfield did not contribute in the tight five, and I am not talking about your own perception because we know how poor that is. Remember your argument about Beast's scrumming improving after Bakkies Botha, who had been scrumming behind Jannie du Plessis, was replaced during a game? I think that I have given you this example a few years ago, but here goes again. I was involved in a club where we had a loosehead by the name of Wian Ungerer. This guy was a stringbean who quite often benched for the second team at centre, when there was a shortage of players, and then went on to play at loosehead for the first team. Our opposition always used to have a laugh when the teams took to the field and they saw our loosehead. Until the first scrum when he shoved his opponent's head into his arse. The fact that one player is 10/12 kilos lighter than his opponent does not have that big an influence in the bigger scheme of things.
3. By your definition, the support players would have battled to lift Bakkies. The fact that Matfield was "easier" to lift is probably your weakest argument against Matfield ever. Have you ever watched line-outs and saw how high Matfield jumped without anybody lifting him? In addition, how come the support players lifted Bakkies just as high just as easy, if the wait of the player being lifted made such a big difference? Do not under estimate the strength of those support players. They are strong blixems, those guys.
4. And then you are still hanging onto Bakkies' banter. I would have thought that you would have caught onto his humour after all these years. Especially after what he said about Brad Thorn.
5. Are you sure you wouldn't want to change that remark? Really? As a first example, I suggest you revisit the clip I referred to above. And if you need more proof have a look at this, and I have chosen this one for a very specific reason but I will reserve that for if and when you reply: https://youtu.be/OgyU6OXWsCM
6. I am by no means saying that Eben and PSDT will never emulate Victor and Bakkiesn but they have some way to go and one day, when PSDT gets invited to do shows like this where he is hailed as a great by someone like Ian Jones and asked to explain the ins and outs of line-out play, we can talk again: https://youtu.be/UE_o154J3YE and if the Sky TV one is not good enough, BT sports invited him as well. https://youtu.be/yXdDapohCV4

 Vlag,Ek stem saam met wat jy se oor PSDT. 
There is IMHO however one problem with a delayed introduction of a player and that is the danger of losing a player for future Bok-rugby. CJ Stander comes to mind.
I don't know the best solution because I firmly believe players like Gaffie du Toit and Pollard were introduced too early into Bok-rugby.

 Pollution alert on this site.    

Mike, give it a rest man. Cera has made a very solid rugby comment. You are just attacking him because it is him. What he has said about introducing young players too early is 100% true. He is not saying don't introduce them at all, just wait until they are ready. It is not pollution, it is a rugby comment, based on his opinion. 
You say people attack you and you are tired of it, but you basically ignored everything he said, and just attacked him. He did not mention you, attack you, or say anything negative about you...yet you feel the right to do exactly what you claim others do to you. Also, he retaliated when you attacked him for no reason, so don't hide behind him calling you a doos. Mike, I don't have an issue with you at all, and I think you are one of the posters here that puts the most time into their rugby, but in this case you are out of line. 
 

 
BlueBok ... what's with this sudden policing stance of yours ... and why is always directed at Mike?

If you're not going to be objective then rather be quiet.

Come on CC. I just comment on what I see. Cera made a rugby comment, and Mike attacked him for no reason. I have been accused of policing on many occasions before. There is nothing sudden about it. I don't really care who it is for or against. I like Mike and I think he does get gang raped from time to time by other posters, but he is also the cause of much of his own distress. 
I know I have made a couple of comments against Mike lately, but that is only because he has blatantly been saying one thing and doing another. The other ongoing spats between Rooi, Moz, Denny, DA and yourself are more back and forth with evidence on both sides. So there is nothing definitive to 100% say who is wrong and who is right.
I won't be quiet, it is a comment board after all.  

 bluebo k
I do not honour stupidity on comments of the two polluters on site.  However, I do issue pollution warnings where they comment on anything I wrote or come up with side-issues.  However, there are two issues mentioned above by other posters which need clarification and that is the issue of his delayed selection and the danger of like Stander of him to go and play for another country if not selected for the national squad.
That in fact does not exist - since Du Toit played in 2012 for the U20 national team he is not allowed to play for any foreign team.   So that danger was never a reality.
.  

@Blikkies, I agree that there is that danger of a player not getting the chance but you will never keep a real hard grafter down. Someone who has his goals firmly set and are working towards them will achieve them. Many great players never got their "shot" early on. I once had a list of the 2007 players and a few others who never played SA schools, for example. Did you know that FDP never played SA schools, neither did Gurtho Steenkamp. Andre Venter couldn't even made his school's first XV.

@Blikkies. Not quite the same list that I referred to earlier but similar. Read this article and check out the names of players who never even made Craven week, let alone the SA Schools side. Many would be surprised to find the likes of Bryan Hanana there, as well as Johan Ackermann, Andre Joubert, Marius Joubert, Tommie du Plessis, Michael du Plessis, Morne du Plessis, Adolf Malan, Louis Moolman, none of the Ndungane brothers, Krynauw Otto, Gysie Pienaar and Breyten Paulse. And that is only a small portion of the list.

 Bluebok, I feel your pain, but enjoy the fact that you still call it as you see it. Vasbyt!