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FORUM / RUGBY /  Question - Alistair Coetzee

Question - Alistair Coetzee

Started by Sharky5440 REPLIES653 VIEWS· 20 Oct 2014, 20:53
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SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
20 Oct 2014, 20:53
#1
20 Oct 2014, 20:53#1

This is as good a time as any to establish a baseline for opinion, especially amongst WP supporters about Alistair Coetzee.


After consecutive Super rugby semi-final losses at Newlands in 2011 and 2012, followed up by a Currie Cup final loss at Newlands in 2013 and lets face it - a bit of a none starter type Super rugby season in 2013 and 2014, Alistair Coetzee hasn't always been at the top of the 'most liked' list in Cape Town. He kind of vacillates in position depending on each weekends performances.


So lets hear - from WP fans. If WP should lose the Currie Cup final this weekend, are we going to hear again that it is time for Alistair to go ? And if they win are you all happy that his contract has been extended ?


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Oct 2014, 21:08
#2
20 Oct 2014, 21:08#2
 Sharky
I do think Coetzee was really on the road to nowhere halfway through Suiper 15, but when Gert Smal was made Dierector of Rugby.    Whether the improvement is a result of Smal's efforts or the improvement by Coetzee is a really big question.   

SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
20 Oct 2014, 21:12
#3
20 Oct 2014, 21:12#3
Mike - So you are happy to let him stay on ?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Oct 2014, 23:16
#4
20 Oct 2014, 23:16#4
No I think we should get in a real coach. Coetzee was a quota appointment to the Boks probably forced on Jake much like Loubsher the current Bok backline coach has been forced on Meyer. I have no time at all for these race based appointments. Let coaches earn their promotions by proving their worth. Loubscheer was the bulle Vodacom Cup backline coach with little experience. its ludicrous to have him on board 
We had ou pdv foist on us and I feel the same way about Alistair. He flopped as a Bok backline coach and was rewarded by being made WP coach. That is typical SAracism which abounds in all spheres of endeavour. However after real coaches like Mallet and Rassie walked out of WP one wonders how long Smal will last. We shall see.
I do note that Alistair reports to Smal an indication that something was not working.
We pussy foot around th ese things too much. Away with race based appointments.



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Oct 2014, 23:20
#5
20 Oct 2014, 23:20#5
 Coetzee is a poor coach he must go. Get Mallet o n board
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
22 Oct 2014, 07:09
#6
22 Oct 2014, 07:09#6

Sharky 
Regardless of the outcome this week in the CC final, my view on Alistair Coetzee will be the same. He's achieved good signs a few years back by attracting quality players to the club but fails to secure players at staying at Stomers/WP by the coaching management, it was a clear problem. Former WP players such as Louw, Pollard, Hougaard, Du Toit and many others who are quality players that they couldn't secure at the club. Gert Smal has improved the structure of the team this year by assisting Alistair Coetzee. The talk of WP playing great attacking brand rugby and good results is more so leaning towards what the players are actually doing themselves not what Alistair Coetzee is implementing. Players like Cheslin Kolbe, Senatla, Michael Rhodes, Notshe and others have rejuvenated the team to new heights, its where the real improvement are coming from. 

Coetzee is also very slow to realise what some players are actually capable of doing, often there are players that should be starting and not wasted on the bench. I would be pleased to see Alistair Coetzee resign from the job, its for the better. I'm a loyal WP/Stomers supporter and want to see the team improve. Coetzee needs to go.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2014, 08:13
#7
22 Oct 2014, 08:13#7
 I think it is possible Alistair is more a sop to affrimative action. A figure head.
I think he is a decent enough guy but it's all quota stuff really. Like ou pdv he will never be offered an overseas appointment of any note.
Anyhow we hope that the Stormers do well next year and put to bed the injury bug which a more balanced style of rugby may help with. Thereafter it is about how many matches we lose because of bent down under refs!!! We need to be a lot better than the down under sides to get anywhere.



BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
22 Oct 2014, 09:22
#8
22 Oct 2014, 09:22#8

 I would like to see Coetzee go, I am not a WeePee supp orter, but their rugby has been uninspiring for some time now.


No use to play a bit of rugby in the Currie Cup and then when Super XV comes around the close shop, which is most likely what will happen next year.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2014, 09:52
#9
22 Oct 2014, 09:52#9
 Biltongbek please reform your allegiances!!! You do you support in anycase?
I think the change to a more balanced style of rugby is permanent. We have the players to attack with. No going back now. BUT we do not want ill conceived helter skelter rugby run it at all costs either. Good decision making and non predictablility are key concepts. I fear the Lions maybe a bit too helter skelter when it comes to Super Rugby. However one salutes them for a great deal of improvement. 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
22 Oct 2014, 10:27
#10
22 Oct 2014, 10:27#10

Beeno, I have no allegiance to any Province, grew up all over South Africa and after the advent of pro rugby saw too many players switch sides.


I have allegiance to only the Springbok, I find it hard to identify with any particular team in the professional era as players often don't represent where they learnt their rugby.


The Boks are easy to identify with as they are players who learnt their trade in our system.


In any given season I will support the teams that plays the most attractive rugby.  

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2014, 10:34
#11
22 Oct 2014, 10:34#11
 Biltongbek, with a little cutting off of the rough edges, an appreciation for the best we could make a Province man of you!
Biltingbek it's not good enough to not support a particular team. It's like sitting on the fence stuff. Fairweather friend stuff! Man up Biltongbek and select a team to support. I highly recomment SA's premier outfit to you!
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
22 Oct 2014, 11:48
#12
22 Oct 2014, 11:48#12

Nope, think about it, when you don't support a specific province you are openminded about which players should play for the Bokke, I ever give two hoots who a player plays for, I purely think about what is best for the Boks.


I have seen this illness amongst every supporter supporting a specific club/provincial/state team.


I call is bias. They can 't see though their own rose/blue/white/whatever tinted glasses.

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2014, 12:46
#13
22 Oct 2014, 12:46#13
 I am completely free of bias!!  The two ar not necessarily linked can can be I grant you!



SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
22 Oct 2014, 19:29
#14
22 Oct 2014, 19:29#14
Lions smashed their way to the Currie Cup trophy in 2011 making the final against the Sharks look like a cake walk. In 2012 they came stone last in the Super 15. Not second or third last....LAST....

To repeat the age old cliche - Currie Cup rugby is not a reflection on Super rugby. Two different tournaments. This same policy can be associated or directed at any team (hint hint) getting over excited about their Currie Cup exploits....

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
22 Oct 2014, 19:33
#15
22 Oct 2014, 19:33#15
Irrespective, Coetzee's men don't have a very good record in finals.  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
23 Oct 2014, 15:32
#16
23 Oct 2014, 15:32#16

biltongbek ... you must please excuse Beeno.

Apart from the brain damage suffered as a child, he's severely henpecked ... and protein starved. This unfortunately hinders him and we're subsequently subjected to all kinds of gobbledygook because of it.

He means well but the poor dear can't help himself ... so please be patient with him.

Also ... for you to understand his posts you'll need to be fluent in moron.

The rest of us here have managed to pick up a few words over time and it has helped us a little ... however his dialect at times can be rather severe, to the point where even his fellow morons, like Mozart walk away shaking their heads.

I know it's tough but hang in there.

You'll be fine.


 
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
23 Oct 2014, 15:38
#17
23 Oct 2014, 15:38#17

Thanks for the advice CLearCut, fortunately I am quite adaptable, when I don't understand I just go quiet.


So when I am silent you know the wheels turning but the rat is dead.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
23 Oct 2014, 23:29
#18
23 Oct 2014, 23:29#18
BBek, are you the oak blogging in the Aussie, 'The Roar' ? Anyway welcome aboard . Do you support SA teams during Superugby when they play OZ/NZ ?
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
23 Oct 2014, 23:30
#19
23 Oct 2014, 23:30#19
Of course I do blobbok, I just don't have any favourites
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
23 Oct 2014, 23:53
#20
23 Oct 2014, 23:53#20
 I know of a NZ sporting journalist/author who claimed not to support any team, including national ones ........ blamed it on how he viewed his job etc.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
24 Oct 2014, 00:00
#21
24 Oct 2014, 00:00#21
 No my reason is simpler. Professional players move around all the time, Habana has played for the Lions, Bulls and Stormers, how does one change teams when your players change teams?
So instead I just follow individuals, the journalist is correct however that it helps to be unbiased when considering players that should be Springboks, I don't care who a player plays for, if he is good I have no alterior motive when praising him.
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
24 Oct 2014, 00:05
#22
24 Oct 2014, 00:05#22
 RE: Question - Alistair Coetzee
October 22, 2014, 12:46:04  Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12694 RE: Question - Alistair Coetzee
October 22, 2014, 12:46:04  I am completely free of bias!!  The two ar not necessarily linked can can be I grant you!Beeno you are pure Gold



BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
24 Oct 2014, 00:13
#23
24 Oct 2014, 00:13#23
 Bias...must be a can- can move .
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
24 Oct 2014, 00:33
#24
24 Oct 2014, 00:33#24
 hahahahahaha Claydog did you read that from Beeno "I am completely free of bias" LOL & PRICELESS

BUT Biltongbek, Beeno is absolutely right - Pick a SA Provincial side mate and stick with it. It adds colour to the debate.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
24 Oct 2014, 00:49
#25
24 Oct 2014, 00:49#25
Nah mate, I bring sanity to out of kilter provincial rugby debates  
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
24 Oct 2014, 00:57
#26
24 Oct 2014, 00:57#26
 BB we have Beeno to do that. Although maybe some assistance for him may be helpful. He seems very busy keeping the Kiwis in line.
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
24 Oct 2014, 00:58
#27
24 Oct 2014, 00:58#27
 its a full time job - the education of Beeno
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Oct 2014, 01:07
#28
24 Oct 2014, 01:07#28

I certainly don't support the Bools but I support Victor and Willemse.

 

I do support the Stormers, but I don't support Malherbe, Kitshoff or Taute

 

 

I think you can be for a provincial team and keep your team bias out of the Bok frame. Honestly a good CC game between our top teams, beats a Welsh or Argentinian test any day. These local derbies are like trials where player arguments are settled.....for the rugby student they are compelling viewing.

 

And while I see some positive provincial bias among posters ie they are for players from their province....there is almost no negative bias except for RooiAAS who hates anything coming out of the Cape. It's a pathetic affliction.

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
24 Oct 2014, 01:09
#29
24 Oct 2014, 01:09#29
I don't support overseas players or Frans (stywe kuite) Steyn.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Oct 2014, 01:14
#30
24 Oct 2014, 01:14#30
So you wouldnt pick Goosen?  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
24 Oct 2014, 01:22
#31
24 Oct 2014, 01:22#31
 No, I am hung, drawn and quartered often for having this stance, but the way I see it, if you leave SA for the money, you give up you right to play for SA, those staying at home deserve it more as they are committed to strengthening our local rugby.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Oct 2014, 01:26
#32
24 Oct 2014, 01:26#32
Actually I think all the players act in their own self interest....some see that as best served by staying at home. A fragile kid like Goosen has to be thinking of making some money in a career beset with injury.
My own sense is the domestic player gets the tie break...but guys like Louw have added a lot to the cause.  
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
24 Oct 2014, 01:29
#33
24 Oct 2014, 01:29#33
South Africa as so much depth, we don't need the overseas players if our coaches develop and expose talent timeously.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Oct 2014, 01:39
#34
24 Oct 2014, 01:39#34
Can't say I agree. I think the pool of test capable players is quite small...particularly in the backs and in the front row. But if we go the domestic only route, it could have some positive consequences. We'll  never know the answer to this one. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Oct 2014, 11:04
#35
24 Oct 2014, 11:04#35
Players rightly so are self interested as who else will be for them. Hence they even go and play for the bulle (EG ex Free State captain Staruss) to make more money. However in this case their careers suffer particualry if they are backs. Hahahhahahahaha
The mistake Biltongbek makes is that because he cant remain objective about players if he supports a province others cant. I am the living proof of the error of that view - Moz is also staking a claim. We are notb all rooitwits here or kbbs!!!! Bwahhahahaha
In truth though I think oaks who write articles do not want to get criticised unfairly re bias so they don't DISCLOSE who they support. I am sure Biltongbek is a fervent supporter of  a provincial team - if he has any class that is WP! 


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
24 Oct 2014, 11:13
#36
24 Oct 2014, 11:13#36

You have the little poor (financially) old Lions Cubs, the rejects of the professional system by enlarge.


You have the bloues, the bulletjies that doesn't know much about losing, but not much about playing smart rugby.


You have the Cheatertjies, loves to run but hates to tackle.


You have the Guppies, playing rugby as if they live in a fishbowl and haven't heard rugby has moved on.


You have the WeePee, or Problems, except they don't realise it.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Oct 2014, 11:43
#37
24 Oct 2014, 11:43#37
You have not said anything about the EP queens!
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
24 Oct 2014, 12:04
#38
24 Oct 2014, 12:04#38
Less said about them the better, They remind me of the wannabies, want to play Super Rugby, want to play Currie Cup rugby, want more money, want to develop talent, but ultimately fail all the time. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
24 Oct 2014, 14:48
#39
24 Oct 2014, 14:48#39
 . 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12713 RE: Question - Alistair Coetzee
October 24, 2014, 11:04:34 Players rightly so are self interested as who else will be for them. Hence they even go and play for the bulle (EG ex Free State captain Staruss) to make more money. However in this case their careers suffer particualry if they are backs. Hahahhahahahaha
Remind us why Habana moved from the Bulls to the Stormers....

SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
27 Oct 2014, 18:44
#40
27 Oct 2014, 18:44#40
So I am bumping this back up to the top.

Now that the hangovers have subsided (who knows, some celebrations may still be ongoing ?)

Do you guys think WP made the right decision with extending Coetzee's contract ? Seems a bit reactive to me.

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