Ref's huge mistake benefited the boks

Faf de klerk's last tackle was a blatant penalty,....... penalty for not releas ing the player in the tackle and penalty for not rolling away,........ and it was cynical 5 meters from the try line,.... it should have been a yellow for faf

but Glen Jackson had a blunder and call for a penalty against the Irish,...... huge blunder that deprived the teams of deciding the game on the field,........ there should be a mechanism to avoid this,..... to avoid that a ref decision ruins one team's options to win a game,...... something like what Hansen proposed time ago of having each team the chance to call for a review of a specific play

what would have happened if the ref had called it right? nobody knows,..... but the Irish were on the front foot and 5 meters from the try-line,........ Jackson deprived us all of knowing who should have won the game

 Anybody else share your view on this? 

are you pretending to say that this is a reason that invalidates what I'm saying?

very poor try,..... watch the video and stick to what it's shown there

 Well usually when a team loses a test because of a blatantly wrong call there is some discussion of the mistake. I have seen none....but I will watch the video and report back.

I think AB may have a point. Faf makes the tackle, I can't see a clear release. At the only point from where we would have been able to see clearly if Faf released before competing for the ball, the Irish #19 is in the way. 
Either way, he proceeds to flop down on top of Earls, effectively sealing off the ball. Ireland can feel hard done by there I would think.

 So here's what I find. The Irish worked phase after phase, during which Kriel, Stephanie and especially Mostert missed crucial tackles....but the Boks held.
Then after the hooter the Irish had finally pulled the Boks out of shape with Mostert and Kitshoff bunched together and the Irish 2 on 1 out  wide.....a brilliant read and pass from the Irish scrummie set up what should have been a try.

The ball zipped beyond the logjam....to Earls who had a man clear outside him. All he had to do is take the ball and pass as Faf clattered into him. But he hesitated and Faf who came off the line with brilliant speed also got his hand up to make the pass difficult. If he had gone low the try was certain.
As they tangled Earls actually lost the ball which was pinned between him and Faf, but he regained possession before hitting the deck.
Faf who was down first, spun round and got to his feet.....and crucially released Earls, clearly seen by his right arm straight down onto the deck with a fist. After that, with Faf over the ball  an Irish player blocks the view.
Clear release....yes. Mistake....no. 

 Pakie on your point about Faf flopping down, that's certainly true. He was off his feet as the penalty was blown, but I believe on his feet contesting the ball before that. Earls  who probably only had control of the ball as he hit the deck, never released. Flaccid play by Earls and in my view a brilliant, legal intervention by Faf.

Fair enough Moz. I only have a pixelated Supersport highlights reel from the web with no slo-mo to work from, so it's tough to get a proper look as freeze frames are pretty much a blur. Pity we don't have other angles. I guess the guy in the best position was Jackson.

  downloaded the game and can watch it frame by frame with Premiere,..... sorry, but Faf never released Earls and never rolled away,..... clear penalty against the boks

 Will you please stop your pathetic bleating ab ASS! Thanks Dr Moz for correcting ab AS - you have a permanent job on your hands with this ignorant lout!
What is wrong with this miserable fellow? 
Faf was brilliant. Best scrummie in the world.

 

 "Faf was brilliant. Best scrummie in the world."

please, don't show up your ignorance in this way,........ Faf's kicking almost cost the boks the game and his pass is not accurate (the most important skill for a scrummie),....... he's light years behind Aaron Smith,..... light years

 At 22 seconds he clearly releases. 

 Here is my take from the clip posted by ABasquefan:Faf makes the tackle and goes to ground with their ball carrier. Jaco Kriel is next to compete for the ball and their 19 also joins the tackle. Faf releases but Jako got his hand on the ball while their 19 loses his balance and ends with his knee on the ground, but Jako supports his weight with both legs. The Irish did not want to release and Jako won a penalty.

 Crash goes poor ab ASS yet again. Aaron is not remotely in the class of Faf. Who tackles like a loosie. Real tough nut unlike pap smithie!

O bviously poor ab ASS cant interpret what he sees. The lonely brain cell shorts out!

 That was a release? Sure we believe you

 keeping the player on the ground and the ball btwin the tackler's arms and legs is not releasing,..... and, anyway,one tenth of second after he sealed off the ball not rolling away,..... penalty

 Isnt making a joke of yourself regarding the globalists enough EGG landing for one day ab ASS . Now egged on by ou Jw you.are at it again. A real.egg magnet!!!

I didn't watch the clip. But i have watched a great many clips of refs screwing games up. When the Boks are hard done by we are told to take ot on the chin. The French were also told that they are all conspiracy theorists even though the video showed ample evidence to the contrary. Every team has been screwed over by a ref before, and I'm on the side that feels it's not always as unintentional as we're lead to believe. For me, they can slow down the game as much as they want and use every last bit of technology to make sure the calls are as correct as possible. Mainly because I want the game to be decided by skill and effort and not some idiot with a whistle. But also because were i Irish, it would annoy me like hell if somebody said "Yes, but what about when Faf was tackled early after his quick tap..." And that's the problem. You end up leaning mistakes against other mistakes, impossibly trying to balance out a human's brain farts.

Beeno while we know you are an expert on egg & your personal magnetism for such is well known I fear you have sadly identified the wrong recipient. Another self inflicted wound, I am sorry to say.
Beeno who attracts egg like no other
Evidence provided by the society against self abuse

 I agree Plum, sometimes you win those calls & sometimes you don't. The human error factor is always there. Game is over, Boks have it in the books as a win, next game please.
Frankly thank goodness the Boks won because the misery on this board would be too much to handle. The posts & posters were already shrinking & now the board is humm ing along.

Well, we can't agree with the benefit of slow motion replays. What hope does a ref have in real time. 

The first assertion is Faf never released. Disproven by his straight right arm and fist on the deck. 
Then there is a new assertion is he held the player on the ground by not rolling away....but the first thing he did was get back onto his feet. Aggressively....he positively jumped to his feet and got over the ball. How can you roll away when you are already on your feet.....then the Irish player number 19 joins the breakdown and pushes Faf down with his body. But by that time Earls had already transgressed.
 This is a fair topic to debate, the penalty decided the game.

 My guess is at some point Earls lost the ball forward onto Fafs body in any case. But I agree Pakie some of this stuff is impossible to see in real time. Soccer refs have so much simpler a rule set. I like Jackson, he seems even handed gets the game.

 "Mainly because I want the game to be decided by skill and effort and not some idiot with a whistle. "
Many more games are decided by some idiot doing something foolish like knocking on a ball with an open try line, or playing a player in the air in a line-out, or failing to make a simple and easy tackle to prevent a crucial try, or missing a last minute kick right in front of the posts in the middle of the field, etc, etc, etc. Games decided by "some idiot with a whistle" counts for far less than games decided by "some idiots" in rugby kit.

 Have to go with Ceradyne on this ,all the conspiracy nonsense is just that ,nonsense.And what garbage are you alluding to now plum RE: the French ? is it the penalty that NZ kicked and only the frogs and AB haters reckon didnt ? The cick that from all angles shows it going through ? Typical of confirmation bias to ignore anything else in a rush to latch onto some fabricated garbage ,two touchies AT THE GAME watching the ball go through the posts a dozen cameras and still this nonsense persist .

Wardad, i have no idea what penalty kick you are talking about. A certain Kiwi team was robbed of a S18 trophy a couple of years back, and Mr Joubert wrote a letter to say sorry. I would have wiped my rear with that letter if I was one of those men who had worked so hard all season just to be robbed at the end. The French were hard done by in WC Final when the same ref was less then 2m from 4 infringements that happened within 20 seconds of each other and he failed to see any of them. Many will say that in 2007 the ref also handed the Boks the title. Bottom line for me is that the players on the field and their actions on the day should determine the outcome. Not the guy with the whistle. The players and fans deserve more. And it's very possible to give it to them. Go on Wardad, tell me Barnes doesn't have it in for you Kiwis and that his bias in no way affects the games he blows. Dude the whole bloody planet knows he'd nuke NZ if he could. Cera. Sorry but what you just posted there makes no sense. Sport is about the team making the least mistakes winning. I can't write this without being condescending. Do you not see a tiny hole in your logic there? A ref making mistakes that ultimately decide the winner of a game, or worse a tornoument is unacceptable. I'm really not sure how you place player mistakes and referee errors in the same category. Are you saying that Mr Barnes calling that forward pass a few weeks ago is acceptable in same sense that we accept that players are not perfect, while there is ample technology available to get rid of most such idiotic calls? Did you just feel like stating the obvious...IE players determining the outcome of matches for the most part? Thanks, I thought it was the gods who decided. Glad that's cleared up. Here's your argument summarized. Players are human and make mistakes, ergo we should accept that referees will make poor calls that cost teams games, leagues and World Cups. Honestly, I'd like to know how you put those two together. And here. Just to pre-empt the usual arguments against. *Even with solomo the TV ref still gets it wrong "sometimes"...Key word here is SOMETIMES! *Human error is part of the game...blah blah tradition...just because you've done something for a long time does not make it correct. If so, please sell your car and buy a horse ;) *The game will be slowed down too much...Simply, no it won't! *The system is fine the refs just need to be better...yes and how long shall we wait for that? The above are all irrelevant arguments.

 Looks like my mistake Mr Plum ,my only defence comes from being on other forums and reading how the last NZ penalty in the 2011 final didnt go through the posts .My take on refs is this ,saffa refs used to be woeful prior to re admission but since then the vast majority of saffa refs have more than made up for that and are worlds best .Barnes ? yeah hes not a fan of the ABs is he ? That final with France was a shocker in 2007 but as MacCaw says in his statesman like way he was too inexperienced to be running that game and froze .Or hes a cheat hahahaha .Strangely enough the wallabillies have a 100% winning record with him so maybe thats his retirement sorted then !I believe that as far as rugby goes theres very little in the way of deliberate bias or shonky reffing and usually you will find its just an off day or sheer ineptitude !

 @Plum. Mate, I have been down this refree blaming road man a time. Is the referee as much part of the game as the players, yes or no?
The referee acts on the players' actions, he judges what they have done and then decides whether it was within the laws of the game or not, and if not, he decides upon an appropriate sanction, blows his whistle and delivers his verdict. That is the first part of the argument. An action by a player triggers his reaction.
Can referees make mistakes? Of course they can. They are human after all. My point, though, is this. You can clearly remember the "mistake" by the referee. Can you also clearly remember each and every mistake made by the players? I thought not.
If you look at the stats of the game between SA and Ireland you would notice the following number of mistakes by the players:
Penalties and free kicks conceded: SA - 12, Ireland - 12. Total - 24 mistakes by players.Tackles missed:SA - 25!!!!!, Ireland - 5. Total - 30 mistakes by players.Turnovers conceded:SA - 6, Ireland 14. That is another 20 mistakes by players. 
Without going into knock-ons and other sh1t, you have 74 mistakes by players, right there.
If you look into some of the individual players' mistakes.De Allende missed four tackles and conceded a penalty. Five mistakesJantjies missed four tackles.Strauss conceded two penalties.PSDT missed five tackles and conceded a penalty. Six mistakes in total.Earls conceded three penalties.Ross conceded two penalties.
Games are decided primarily by players, not be "idiots with whistles" . People are always shouting for referees to be made to pay for mistakes by incurring financial penalties for stuff-ups but nobody ever claims that players should be dealt with in similar manner. Maybe Allister Coetzee has a point after all.

Cera I am sorry but your arguments is completely irrelevant man. The point is...the technology exist and we should use it more. Player mistakes have nothing to do with this.

 Jackson was making amends for that dodgy Kiwi ref who cost us a Test against the Irish when he told John Smit to talk to his players & then almost instantly allowed the Irish to resume play & score the matchwinner. Karma is a lekker ding .

 @Plum. It is totally relevant. Looking at refs deciding the outcome of games is a cop-out. Games are hardly ever decided by the idiot with a whistle. It is decided by the actions of the players and the preparation of the teams by the coaches. We have come from a ref and two lines men to s ref and two ARs to a TMO with limited input to a TMO with major input and still we want to blame the idiot with the whistle. 

@Cera still, you are not separating player mistakes and referee errors. A team is 2% better than the other team and should thus win a game Let's call the score a percentage and say the score is 49% to 51%. A bad call can see the outcome of the game turned around to 51% - 49%. It is irrelevant to argue that it was either team's prerogative to win 100% - 0%. Many high profile games have been decided on an incorrect call and it's wrong. How many times have refs nit even taken the time to too look at footage properly. Remember Poite's call on Bizmark. He looked at a single angle and sent him off...and as Bizmark walked off the second angle showed that a more textbook tackle could not have been made. That changed the momentum in that game. Fine the ABs may still have won. But to say that something is fine because the world is not perfect, when you actually have the ability to fix that thing...it makes no sense man. The call Barnes made a.few weeks back. That "forward" pass. Let's say the ABs lost the game on the back of that call. Do we just say...oh well, they should have been winning by a greater margin so as to compensate for potential referee error? Surely not man.

"@Cera still, you are not separating player mistakes and referee errors."
Do I have to?
First off. I have cuffed through your this, that and the other example to explain your point but that, to me is irrelevant. Those are a few examples of mistakes by referees but I can name you hundreds of examples where the stupidity, ignorance, incompetence of players, coaches, etc, have decided games.
Joe Peterson missed a sitter, right in front of the posts which resulted in a draw between the Bulls and the Sharks some time ago. Lood de Jager missed a simple tackle to let the ABs through for a vital try during the RWC. Victor Matfield caused a vital turn-over in that same game. We lost the game by two points. We were leading Aus in the 2011 RWC QF, despite Bryce Lawrence's poor showing with the whistle and we blew it because of a stupid error by Danie Rossouw. In that same game, John Smit insisted on kicking penalties for the line, instead of taking the points, Schalk Burger knocked the ball on with an open try line (.... in exactly the same way that he did it in the 2015 RWC semi-finals against NZ, I might add) and FDP kept taking quick taps and try to score tries instead of waiting and taking the points on offer. We lsot that one by two points as well, IIRC.
I stand by my point that too much emphasis is placed on the performance of the referees and the first point of call should be the players. Once we can say that they had faultless performances and once we can with all confidence, and without any shadow of doubt, say that the referee has cheated us out of a result, we can have a go at the ref and put the blame squarely on his shoulders. Until then we should rather stick to having a go at the players and the coaches.
When a game ends up with the result on a knife's edge in the final stages, then you can expect that one mistake could change the outcome. In almost all of the cases, the first one who comes under fire is the referee, and the supporters of the losing side always immediately start "looking down the line in the game" to find a spot where the ref have cheated them out of a win. It is never the player who fcuked up in the dying moments of the game. Always the cheating ref who made a balls-up in the somewhere earlier in the game.

 Plum you will never get any sense out of cerudunce windpomp when it comes to refs. He supports Bryce Lawrence who put in probably the worst reffing performance ever seen. Ou windpomp has no sense of what is proper.  A hopeless case.
Look after many years it's all very clear. down under refs are as bent as boomerangs and must be continually castigated for their crooked reffing.
End of story!

Beeno, if the Kiwi ref (Jackson) is bent then maybe the penalty should have been awarded to Ireland, in which case ABasqueFan is correct.

Huh - this post is a bit vindictive don't you think AB? We barely escape the clutches of the mighty Irish and are pondering how we will navigate the quota boat through the strai ts of the Rugby Championship, let alone the EOYT where we face the English, Welsh and the ....gulp.... Italians
Leave us alone, ok? 

 

Basque like most communists/socialists you have no sense of humour.....Matey's comments are obviously tongue in cheek.