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FORUM / RUGBY /  Referee inept blunders - Yes Mathieu Raynal you.

Referee inept blunders - Yes Mathieu Raynal you.

Started by hakwa29 REPLIES1,448 VIEWS· 02 Oct 2018, 11:58
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HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
02 Oct 2018, 11:58
#1
02 Oct 2018, 11:58#1

Mathieu Raynal had a shocker. He was having a Wayne Barnes Freeze where no matter what the Argie Bargies did, he was NOT going to penalise them but police the All Blacks like mental. He even went so far as to make up some new rules.

1. Beauden Barrett's legitimate tackle on Nicholas Sanchez - EVERYTIME the Argentinian crowd shouted he gives a penalty against the All Blacks. This ref is NOT suitable for any RWC Test Matches.

2. The Pumas first try - So you can disallow a try if it is a double movement but award one if there is a TRIPLE movement 


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 12:22
#2
02 Oct 2018, 12:22#2
I dont think that was a double or triple movement because his body was stationary on the ground. 
All he was doing was placing the ball. which he redid twice. He did not propel his body forward when replacing the ball. 
Barrett was lying in the way, so I believe he was entitled to push the ball past the opposition player- as it was still in play - until a mistake or the law was broken.
It is like placing the ball backwards, sometimes players do it more than one. 

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
02 Oct 2018, 12:40
#3
02 Oct 2018, 12:40#3

"Redid twice " is a double movement no ?Not a triple but close enough .

Brother Hakwa you know we cant compete with the other nations on the ref whingeing front we just havent put in the same vast amounts of time and resources needed to compete in this highly competitive field so they have us beat there Bro.

Having said that I cant recall any French refs being worth tuppence and after last years effort I would say they are easier to pay off than a $1 cheeseburger from Maccas the bastards !

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
02 Oct 2018, 12:41
#4
02 Oct 2018, 12:41#4

@sharkbok, if the ball is already on the ground, fiddling with it again is ball tampering is it not?


HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
02 Oct 2018, 12:49
#5
02 Oct 2018, 12:49#5

Hey there bro Wardad  - Long time  - hahahahaha you are absolutely right, the other Nations have us beaten on the Ref Whinging Front ahahahahahaha  and we do not have the resources and time to compete .

That ref in the 3rd Lions Test Match was a shocker - blows his whistle for a penalty and then awards a scrum  - Just like this idiot - totally ignores what the TMO says after consulting the TMO  - You wonder what the TMO is there for?


WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
02 Oct 2018, 13:13
#6
02 Oct 2018, 13:13#6

In that 3rd test he also blew it up as ALB was heading in for a try so WTF ???And what does " joost do az we agreed " mean ?? 

Why I enjoy sticking it to the Frogs [ everyone hates them but will swallow their revulsion when they play the ABs] .

A pox on all their houses and their mistresses 

PS Hakwa you been fishing lately ? Last time I was in Goondiwindi I caught 5 Murray cod from 2.5 to 7kg and 3 big yellowbelly and a coupla big silver perch .

Let all the cod go and gave the rest to the old peeps .

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 Oct 2018, 14:02
#7
02 Oct 2018, 14:02#7

Hacked waaaugh no more squealing about the ref please. The Argies showed you guys up in that second half for sure.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
02 Oct 2018, 14:05
#8
02 Oct 2018, 14:05#8

 Thought you'd never show Beanhead


WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
02 Oct 2018, 15:14
#9
02 Oct 2018, 15:14#9

Ooh looky its the w orld ref Whingeing Champ !

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
02 Oct 2018, 15:29
#10
02 Oct 2018, 15:29#10

Beeno takes it in the neck


The dining experience at Ruckers' Restaurant was far better

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
02 Oct 2018, 15:31
#11
02 Oct 2018, 15:31#11

Hehehehe 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2018, 16:12
#12
02 Oct 2018, 16:12#12
Reminds me of the AB try in Wellington, scored after a clear knock on earlier in the move.
MO
MoonroverPro1,973 posts
02 Oct 2018, 16:59
#13
02 Oct 2018, 16:59#13

Reminds me of the AB try in Wellington, scored after a clear knock on earlier in the move.


Referee was blind sited on that one but surely right in front of the linesman,what are linesme n allowed to call?

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 17:13
#14
02 Oct 2018, 17:13#14
There is no law against placing the ball twice or three times, as long as the body is not moving crawling/jumping forward after the momentum has finished.
This is not a double movement because the body itself is in a stationary position. . A double movement is propelling your body along the ground, after the momentum of the dive, has finished.

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
02 Oct 2018, 19:48
#15
02 Oct 2018, 19:48#15

"There is no law against placing the ball twice or three times, as long as the body is not moving crawling/jumping forward after the momentum has finished.

This is not a double movement because the body itself is in a stationary position.. A double movement is propelling your body along the ground, after the momentum of the dive, has finished."


it has nothing to do with the body "moving crawling/jumping forward" or "propelling your body along the ground, after the momentum of the dive, has finished",...

to begin with there's no such concept in rugby union, ‘double movement’ is a rugby league term and not a phrase associated with the laws of union.There are 2 laws that intervene in this case.


Law 14. Tackle: Players responsability.

14.7. Tackled players must immediately:

a. Make the ball available so that play can continue by releasing, passing or pushing the ball in any direction except forward. They may place the ball in any direction.

b. Move away from the ball or get up.

c. Ensure that they do not lie on, over or near the ball to prevent opposition players from gaining possession of it.

Sanction: Penalty.
and Law 21. In-goal. Grounding the ball
21.7. If a tackled player has momentum that carries them into their own in-goal area, they can make a touch down.
21.8. A tackled player near their own goal line may reach out and ground the ball in in-goal to make a touch down, provided it is done immediately. Sanction: Penalty.
The key word here is: immediately
The player didn't immediately make the ball avalaible, instead he lied on it and after some seconds (not immediately) reached out and grounded the ball. As the TMO said to the ref it was a penalty against the argentinan player
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Oct 2018, 19:53
#16
02 Oct 2018, 19:53#16
Tend to agree....I hadn't read the specific rule, but it seemed to me once he placed it the first time, he had to leave the ball.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 20:16
#17
02 Oct 2018, 20:16#17
This part of the law is not clear - and is down to the discretion of the referee because immediately is not defined as a fixed number of seconds.
A double movement is basically someone crawling along the ground. It is not placing the ball more than once.

How often do you see someone gets tackled and not release the ball instantly? Often a player places the ball more than once. Often a player places their hand on the ball to keep it in the same position to prevent their own player knocking the ball forward.

Barratt (the defending player) is on the ground and should try to move out of the way- otherwise, it is trying to influence the game from an illegal position. It could just as easily have been a penalty for him attempting to play the ball on the ground.

This law could be defined more clearly, but it is currently the discretion of the referee of what is placing the ball- and what is playing the ball on the ground.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
02 Oct 2018, 20:17
#18
02 Oct 2018, 20:17#18

about the French refs,... they are a disaster,... and there are 3 of them at international level,.... 3, probably the union with more refs appointed

and this one, Mathieu Raynal, the worst of the lot,... he has no clue, especially at scrum time,... he was in charge of the Crusadrs-B&I Lions and he penalized once and again the saders scrum that was completely dominant instead of penalizing the Lions (who were swept) as he should have done,... there were no tries in that game which was decided by the penalties,... last sat he had a couple of these too

but the other 2 are no much better,... Romain Poite and Jerome Garces,... and the 3 of them are going to be appointed for the WC,... probably Raynal won't be in the finals (hope so) but the other 2 have some chances and it's a lottery then,... they more often than not end up influencing the outcome of the game

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
02 Oct 2018, 20:30
#19
02 Oct 2018, 20:30#19

Bottom line, officiating isn't nearly at the level it should be for an international professional sport. World Rugby should do a lot more to get general officiating up to a more consistent standard...think formal atertiary 3 year diploma / degree ...or 2 years or whatever,  but get a standard going ffs.

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
02 Oct 2018, 20:42
#20
02 Oct 2018, 20:42#20

@sharlbok

"and is down to the discretion of the referee because immediately is not defined as a fixed number of seconds."


every single rugby law is down to the discretion of the ref,.... didn't you notice it yet?

but to interpret that that grounding could be somewhere near "immediately" would be a very very free interpretation,... a great majority of the refs would have penalized the argentinan
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 21:32
#21
02 Oct 2018, 21:32#21
@Abasque fan, you yourself said that no law existed in rugby for double movement- but only in rugby league. 
I think it is safe to assume that a double movement is crawling on the ground, not placing the ball. The problem, in this case, is more that the law itself is not clear. 
If the referee blew his whistle whenever a player did not place the ball instantly in the tackle, rugby would be a totally different game with much less rucking and more scrumming. The All Blacks play the ball on the ground more than any other team- but it is not breaking the law because it is positive ruck play. (not releasing the ball instantly). 
If Barratt was not lying in the way and trying to play the ball on the ground, then it would have been easy for the Argentinian player to place the ball. 
It could just as easily have been a penalty try against Barrett and a yellow card for cynical play. 
It would be interesting to hear what the formal response from the IRB is- but I think the correct decision was made.


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 21:35
#22
02 Oct 2018, 21:35#22

This is an example of a  double movement because he clearly propels himself forward after the initial momentum. He could have placed the ball instantly- but the offence itself is crawling forward- rather than not placing the ball instantly



MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
02 Oct 2018, 21:47
#23
02 Oct 2018, 21:47#23

Sharkbok, do you just make shit up when it comes to anything against the ABs??

Your crap about "double movement" meaning they have to move their bodies along the ground is purely delusional!

As ABasquefan says, the player is allowed to reach out towards the line after he is tackled but it must be immediate. He can't reach out like he did, fail to make the line and therefore have another crack (or 2) at getting it there which clearly he did!

And as for Barrett needing to get out of the way; what a load of tripe. By your way of thinking, all players who are on the ground behind the line must roll away nicely so that the opposing player can have a nice little try!

Get real.....

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 22:20
#24
02 Oct 2018, 22:20#24

Check minute 0:30 of this highlights summary. 

Nahalo is tackled short of the try line. He tries to place the ball over the line, and is short. 

He then has a second shot at it- and scores in the 2nd attempt. (the 30th second of the highlights reel). 

It is not a double movement, because he does not crawl forward- however, this is very marginal- as he does seem to propel himself forward slightly- and he is held in the tackle.

 He is not penalised for not releasing the ball instantly. Their is no rule that states you are allowed to place it once, or twice, or three times. Often their is some wrestling on the try line when a player tries to score, and a defender tries to stop the grounding. 


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
02 Oct 2018, 22:25
#25
02 Oct 2018, 22:25#25

In minute 2:20 the referee explains his decision. It is NOT a second movement, he only extends his arms.

A second movement is crawling on the ground. 


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
02 Oct 2018, 22:25
#26
02 Oct 2018, 22:25#26

Wasting your breath.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
03 Oct 2018, 03:27
#27
03 Oct 2018, 03:27#27

@Sharkbok Naholo did not have 2 goes at it. Here is a video of ball tampering 

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
03 Oct 2018, 07:01
#28
03 Oct 2018, 07:01#28
Holy shit Sharkbok, a second movement is a second movement FFS!! Where does it say anywhere about a second movement having to be “crawling along the ground”???!!!!
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
05 Oct 2018, 16:22
#29
05 Oct 2018, 16:22#29

My point exactly Cloudy 

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
05 Oct 2018, 16:39
#30
05 Oct 2018, 16:39#30

To beat the spread obviously!

— END OF THREAD —

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