Remember the foul-ups leading in the WC match against Japan to a disgarceful loss

One wonders by how wide a margin Japan would have beaten the Springboks in that test if they had the team they have at present.   There present team is hugely better than the 2015 team was.  This is proven by the Japan performance under the captaincy of Labuschagne record in the present series they are participating in.

They beat Fiji easily - an extremely rare occurrence - and they beat Tonga by a huge margin.  

The Springboks will have to be extra careful against them when they play the Japanese in a warm up game - they have improved massively over he last three years.   If the Springboks beat them ibn the warm-up game it will show how much better the present Springbok team is in comparison with the 2015 team that played them.              

The fact that they handled the physicality of the Tongans is very impressive. The Boks must not attempt to fight fire with fire and run at them. This team isn't built to win that kind of game, a game the Japanese know and love very much. The least attacking Bok side for many years must kick, but kick better, and impose set piece dominance. Skop 'N Pop to klap the Pocky-jin upstarts. 

Lets face facts - we will see whether the flops of 2015 is as bad as I think they were compared to the present team - when the warm-up game has been played.   I am particularly worried about Labuschagne - the only loosie that could compete with him is Du Toit - the rest are not up to his standard.   

No Mozart - please don't repeat your BS lies on site.  LMAO ,

No Mozart - please don't repeat your BS lies on site.  LMAO ,

Mozart

I will be fair and give you some ratings for the Japan disaster in 2015:-

15   Kirchner      -      5

14   Habana        -     4,5

13   Kriel            -     3,5

12   De Villiers   -     4

11   Mvovo          -    5

10   Lambie         -    5,5

  9   Pienaar         -     3

  8   Burger          -     3,5

  7   Du Toit        -     4

  6   Louw           -     4.5

  5   Matfield       -     3,5

  4   De Jager       -    6,5

  3   Jannie          -      3

  2   Bismarck     -     3  

  1  Mtawarira    -      5

16   Strauss        -      4,5

17   Nyakane     -      4

18   Oosthuizen  -     3

19   Etzebeth      -      4,5

20   Kolisi          -      3

21   Du Preez     -      4,5

22  Pollard         -      5.5

23  Pietersen      -     3   

So now you can check to find out who was he worst player on the day.  Amongst the starters it must be between  -

Pienaar,  Burger, Matfield, Bismarck, Jannie

Amongst the bench it was between 

Pietersen, Kolisi and Oosthuizen

My choice as worst player that day -

*    Bismarck giving away 4 penalties and beside that did very little of value in the res t of the  game; and

*    Butter Fingers Burger  failed as stand-in flyhalf and knocking on balls four  times giving away a penalty as well'

The players who produced the most rated lowest. Kirchner was the most dangerous runner on the field, but gets a 5. He loses 7 points for one bad kick that resulted in nothing? Where does Lambie get a 5.5? He was singled out by Eddie Jones, who stated they spent two months preparing for his "passivity", as well as other aspects of the game. Burger, Matfield, Bismarck (I'm not even a big fan of him). I don't believe you actually watched that game. You must have heard it on the news. 

No struggled through watching the game - actually watched it twice,   Lambue got a 5,5 for converong kicks and not fouling up when the ball was passed to  hum and did try and get the backline going - gut fouled up by De Villiers at 12.   Kirxhner got 5 by being absent in defence'

I gave the reasons for Burger and Bismarck's ratings - a desperately poor performance by both.  

The game plan - if their was any - was pathetic - but even so Matfield as vc was instructed to get the better of the Japanese up front, but mostly was standing round outside breakdowns and mauls and letting Du Toit do the Tight 5 work for him.    He was pathetic on the day both as forward leader and in organizing any drives up front.  Made tackles and took line-outs - but instead of forming driving mauls did squat in that regard,   Pathetic performance by him as well and he was lucky in getting 3,5.  

Make your choice  Burger fouled up badly - when he consistently  got the ball from Pienaar and  Du Preez, but fact is the passivity started with Pienaar and Burger and the ball not going to the backline. when it should have had.

No team  performed as badly as that lot did in the Japan disaster and  let me be quite frank - the bar is very low being set for the 2018 to improve on and prove they are a better team than Meyer's idiotically  selected 2015 WC squad.           .        .    

These were my ratings around 4 years ago

https://www.ruckersforum.com/forum/rugby/meyers-goat-s-rankings/15445/

Sep 19, 2015, 19:55

Jannie- absolutely useless. 

No Mozart 

No bias - just recognized what really happened.  Matfield was a major problem iro Tight 5 play and Du Toit did much of the work there, while Matfield stood around in the backline    He was supposed to be vc and to take charge of the forward play.  None of that was in evidence. 

Like you - I did rate Oosthuizen for poor scrumming and giving away two penalties - but did not blame Oosthuizen for doing so  while keeping totally quiet about the four penalties given away by Bismarck.   Totally quiet about the four Burger knock-ons  when used to play as what?   Routine ball recipient and poor crashballer.  

Objectivity has never been your strong suit - prejudiced BS always  was,  By the way ball carries in losing games are always meaningless since it led to nothing like scoring enough tries,   Try and think for a change before posting muck.   

And as to Kirchner -why did he not play in the WC again of he was as good as you claim him to be.  LMAO   .   

Well the good news is that it is almost time for a NEW World Cup to discuss!

Here's something that never entered the p ig-headed South African rugby fandom: Maybe Japan were not as worthless as they thought! Imagine that. 

The last time Australia played Japan, they won 63-30. Think about that though, the Japanese dropped 30 points on Australia. This was before Australia's attack dried up. 

Last year New Zealand won 69-31, letting 5 Japanese tries through. A team that can drop 30 points on a tier 1 nation, or the best team in the world, they deserve some measure of respect. 

They had two months to prepare specifically for the Boks. Everything was put into that one game. Jones claimed he had those players prepared for everything. There were some big errors by the players Moz mentioned, but there were a lot of great plays by the Japanese. The low cutting tackles were unbelievable. The way they moved the ball, excellent. 

Four years and that arrogance still persists. Lets hope we don't suffer another wake-up call. South Africans are typically very slow learners, where any learning takes place. 

I agree, it was stupid to include Damian, Kriel, Lood, Steph, Malherbe, Mvovo and Oosthuizen. They contributed nothing to the campaign. 

Meyer's biggest flaw was caving to the pressure of the fake fans, like you. He turned to Reinach, Lambie, Coetzee, Lood et al in 2014 and they let him down. This is where Jake is the better coach, he had the guts to stand his ground against the pressure. He knew the plastics were clueless, that he knew better. He proved his point. 

If you are going to criticise Meyer for his selections, at least name those who failed the team. This is where we differ in our support of a coach, I don't defend mistakes nor do I fabricate any detail of their reign. I called out these bad selections ahead of time and held Meyer personally responsible for them. 

No dumbness the following failed the Springboks totally in the 2015 WC:-

Kirchner, Pietersen, Habana, De Villiers, Morne Steyn, Paige, the Du Plessis's, Matfield, Burger, Alberts, Pienaar, Mvovo, Oosthuizen  to name but a few.  Most of the above were so poor they were actually unplayable in tests and most played in one test and then ended up on the bench occasionally.

What Meyer did with that squad selection I would call a crime against SA Rugby.

Kirchner was our best runner against Japan. try again.

Pietersen took away the high ball on the wing, was one of the top try scorers in the competition and shored up the defence. Try again. 

Habana was Habana. Try again. 

Jean played one poor game, was outstanding against Samoa, where he got injured. 

Paige came off the bench against the USA, played well. He came off the bench against Argentina. Played well. He otherwise played no part in the WC. Try again. 

Morné played briefly against the USA and created three try scoring opportunities in ten minutes. In what way was he a big player in that WC? He is the fifth name you list, yet he played almost no part in the competition.  

Matfield was our second best lock, second to Eben. Try again. 

Schalk, alongside Louw, was arguably our best forward, if not our best player.

Alberts came off the bench late for a few games. What did he do wrong and how did that contribute in any way to a Bok loss at the WC? 


No. You pick names from a list. Names you don't like. Kriel, Damian, Lood, Oosthuizen. Those are the places to look for key contributors that negated the Bok cause. Lambie was hopeless against Japan, and again when replacing Pollard - his first run a splatball that got turned over; not quite as easy as Pollard made it look. Where was Steph when the Japanese exposed his famed mobility? Malherbe was monstered by Scotland. I can recall a scrum play that was ruined by a poor scrum from Malherbe. Their backrow got a free release on a poor turn and swarmed over our backs, cutting off an otherwise free Habana. Nice. 

You should spend your time more wisely. Pray to the rugby gods that Rassie doesn't send aimless kicks to those deadly Japanese runners, that the Boks don't get cocky thinking they can match the Japanese running game. 

BS all along

There is one thing in the squad selection that is open for all to see and that is that at least 8 players of the 31 squad members were unplayable - they could at best appear from the bench only a few times and even then did not make a claim to be considered for selection to the starting line-up.  .   

Yo talk about players coming from the bench and playing well - but then Alberts is given as an example - he played  for abo 50 mintes out of the circa 570 minutes the games lasted,   Wonderful achievement.   There were Matfield who played in total about 232 minutes and was a disgrace in the games he played 100 minutes in - yet he was in your rating in competition to be one of the best the best SA players  in the tournament.   LMAO  

By 2015 Habana was a reputation player who did preciously little in the games  he played in.   Pietersen was the same and as to Kirchner he had one game and got shafted out because his defense was non-existent,  

Matfioeld gets a rating of 2/10  for the AB semi for very good reason.  His contribution was next to zero in that game and fouled up bigtime on two occasions in that game.   Playing Argentina "B Team in the bronze play-off was his only game in which he showed something - for the rest he was piss poor.    Matsfield was by some distance the worst lock in the squad.  The best lock by a huge margin was De Jager.

Louw was piss poor against Japan and his only claim to fame was he made turnovers.   Looking at all the matches he played in he was below standard in all other facets of play.   Burger was abused by Meyer expecting  from him to play a game he was not capable of,  he was useless in the Japan debacle, but for the rest produced nothing of consequence in any game.

AO - we know the basis used by you for evaluating players - the reputation players can produce zero and they still get 7 points for no reason at all.   So keep it up - you are a joke all by yourself.         

Oosthuizen - part of the reason I rated him sub-par and listed him as one of Meyer's dud selections.   Anyway it was a disgrace that they led by 3 points at any time in the game due to a disgraceful performance by everyone bar a few players,   The Meyer top players was useless that day and it includes all the players I rated below 5.     

Mozart

The rot preceded  the carding and the last Japan try,   That was the problem that day p the last two incidents was just the result of how bad the team played like earlier that day,  Easy to blame two players - but the real blame should be at the door of most of the players destroying any concept of rugby,   Burger knocking the ball on four times and giving away a penalty - Bismarck donating four penalties - Matfield supposedly there to  lead the forwards standing around in the backline and doing zilch in Tight 5 play but line-out jumping.       

Mo Mozart

The oldies folded there were more of them than there were newbies (ie players with less than ten tests)/ Matfield failed - De Jager was top class.   Burger failed - Bismarck failed - Jannie failed  -  Louw failed - De Villiers failed.   That in fact is  double the number of so-called newbies,   

To set the blame on the side that played in 2015 on the coach is wrong. The coach might well had underestimated the determination of a talented Japanese underdog coached by a intelligent coach like Eddie Jones that could exploit  his knowledge the dogmatic style of SA rugby format...showing disrespect (that is SA) for what they regarded as an easy opponent (Japan).

Be careful Ireland and certainly Scotland...Japan could jump you...Brave Blossoms could indeed live up to their name...Japanese rugby is far better than most rugby lemmings think...a lot better.

Especially in Japan...if you study the fixtures Ireland could be tired and Scotland could well be a scalp that this well drilled side coupled with pride can overcome. World cups are different ball games and rugby is a strange game when determinations are high.

Ireland were nearly beaten by Georgia in 2007. These things happen. Rugby has changed significantly over the past ten years, the gap between tiers is shrinking. In fact, we are in the midst of a shift in power. Rugby is growing in new territories whilst it dies in more traditional strongholds. Europe is becoming the hub of power, as with soccer. 

A great demonstration of South African arrogance was the loss to Argentina in 2015. "This should never happen", why? We have had far too many close shaves against this team for nearly fifteen years before that loss. It was always going to happen at some point, especially seeing as we play them twice a year. It's hilarious how mediocre too-big-to-fail third world South Africans puff up like proud little parakeets, then have a torrent of egg bury them alive! 

AO

Let me quote you  since you change your postings:-

"This should never happen", why? We have had far too many close shaves against this teams for nearly fifteen years before that loss"

The Argentinians only became part of the new Rugby Championship in 2012 - so from 2012 to 2015 is fifteen years,   now you are totally i gnorant omn all matters - but is that really necessary in this area too?  

The fact is whatever you wrote on site is BS and that means the egg mountain of yours is about as high as the Mozart Egg Mountain at present,     

How desperate are you? I change my posts? No. You are simply illiterate and sloppy, and lie too liberally. There's your problem. 

1. 2000: ARG (33) vs RSA (37)
2. 2003: RSA (26) vs ARG (25)
3. 2005: ARG (23) vs RSA (34)
4. 2012: ARG (16) vs RSA (16)
5. 2013: ARG (17) vs RSA (22)
6. 2014: RSA (13) vs ARG (06)
7. 2014: ARG (31) vs RSA (33)

Not really the answer the idiot expected - so he duck up some rare matches between SA and Argentina from 15 years.  Note that even those scores shows no home loss by the Springboks and the 2015 loss was the first one in SA.   Idiot Speak uis this idiots norm - so what else is new?  

By the way the third test this idiot raised was in the 2007 WC - not in 2005.   He mentioned 3 RC matches - not the other 5.  He could find 3 matches played in 12 years to base an argumen t on.   What an idiot,  

Wipe away the egg from your eyes and read again: 

"This should never happen", why? We have had far too many close shaves against this teams for nearly fifteen years before that loss"

Lastly, that third test was in 2005. The 2007 test was a 37-13 win for the Boks. You keep tripping over your opposable tongue. 

What did I say before? Your knowledge of Bok rugby is appalling? Thankyou for supporting those words. 

No yours is non-existent.  That is why you are always using Idiot Speak as your way of posting.  What  farce . LMAO.      

Mike you can relax, Rassie wont allow the Boks top lose to si des like Japan, something that should never happen. Rassie is a cut or two above Meyer, a competent coach.

There's always a chance. There are also some liabilities: Steph, Damian, Lood, Kriel, Kolisi. Quite a burden to carry. They don't tend to excel against the dangerous NH sides. Did any of them dominate the Japanese in 2015? 

No AO because all the elderly in the side so avidly supported by you and AO  and BS selections by Meyer caved in.  The fact remains that even though the team went trough to the semi it was mainly the result of the players you condemned in the past and at present.

Fact is Loue, Vermeulen, Steyn and Mostert (if in the squad) are the liabilities that would cause a fall-out and the players you listed will be the assets that would be productive and a positive contribution.  Always wrong and always Idiot Speak - sad to see.     

Without those players the Boks wouldn't have made it out of the pool. Those legends of Bok rugby are no longer here to hold the hands of the mediocre never-will-bes. 

Thor is the best 8 in the country. Louw is one of our best loose forwards, in many respects the Fourie of loose forwards, always making those decisive contributions. Frans is better than all but Andre and Mostert, Mauling Mostert, is one of the best Boks, period. 

Why don't you wipe away your tears, pull up your big girl britches and support these fine Boks. There's a good wee lass.