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FORUM / RUGBY /  Response, not scoreline will define Boks

Response, not scoreline will define Boks

Started by Denny38 REPLIES903 VIEWS· 27 Sept 2017, 12:37
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DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
27 Sept 2017, 12:37
#1
27 Sept 2017, 12:37#1

Springbok coach Allister Coetzee has been trying to convince everyone who would listen that the horror show in Albany has been buried and is a thing of the past.

So much so that he believes how the Boks respond this weekend in the Castle Lager Rugby Championship match against Australia will be what defines the team, and not the 57-0 lashing they took a few weeks back in New Zealand.

The shockwaves from that game can still be felt in and around the camp and the Boks know it is only them that can change the perception that one 80 minute spell did to damage their turnaround strategy.

Coetzee and his co-coaches have been making all the right noises this week about how they have moved on and that the defeat doesn’t define them. But they will know the danger of this game against the Wallabies, and the fact that a match they traditionally tend to win with Australia’s poor record in South Africa is more now an expectation.

Given their poor first half in Perth and shock a week later, it is difficult to see what psychological scars have been left on the team, and their response will be massively scrutinised in these last two games in the Rugby Championship to see if it was only a blip on the radar or systematic of something deeper.

The fact that so much has been spoken about the return in Cape Town next week against the All Blacks makes this game against Australia even more dangerous for the Boks, as they will need to put up an exceptional performance to convince a sceptical public that they are better than the 57-0 scoreline suggests.

Coetzee himself believes that his players will bounce back and show that they are better than their performance in New Zealand.

“It’s going to be massive. We have to respond. I have no doubt in my mind that these players will respond this week,” he said.

“Australia is always never easy at altitude, it will be a massive ball-in-play outing for us, unlike in Australia before the match it started raining, it was a massive downpour and we had to adapt tactics. But if you look at what the Aussies are really doing and are good at, we can expect them to come with a ball-in-hand kinda game. They fancy their chances here at altitude, and they have good backs, like I said previously. Their strength is a good setpiece, lineout and good hard running backs. They try and use that for momentum and to get quick feed for running ball. Take it through phases, that is their strength, looking after the ball and playing with continuity.”

One place that Australia are likely to target is the outside backs and the wing defence that was so brittle in Albany. But the Boks coped well in Perth and should have won the game, giving them confidence that their defensive system will stand the test this weekend.

“You sometimes do get it wrong, when you do make one or two system errors. But they have a ball-in-hand approach and the Folau factor is always there, joining the line. We will have to be better defensively, we will definitely have to be better.

“I think we have good plans going forward for this weekend. We might have been a bit passive, we need a bit more urgency. I don’t want to talk about our plans, but I think the attitude is always there. In that Albany game, the collisions were still unbelievably strong and there were great tackles, but we have to continue to do it for 80 plus minutes, that is why there is no time to lapse at all in the next two test matches, especially the one against the Aussies.

“Because they have enough quality and world class backs and players in their side.”

Asked if the next two weeks will define his side, Coetzee believes the response, more than the scoreline, will define this group of players. And he believes they will show the public their resolve in the next fortnight.

“I think what it will show, is the character in this team. Winning doesn’t always mean you are the world’s best team. Sometimes it is about really be able to dig deep and for those youngsters to show massive improvement and to learn from last week’s experience.

“Whatever happens, the game is unpredictable - you could be 20 points up or you could be 20 points down. It is how you respond to the situation and that is what I want to see – how we improve from last week. That will define this team in my opinion – if we can come back if we are behind and still pull it off, or if we are in front, can we still stick to the processes and not change and go into a different mode?

“To stay and play the way we have planned to play, to follow our processes. That will define this team in my opinion.”

Coetzee names his match 23 on Thursday but they proof, as they say, is in the pudding. The test will come on Saturday and the response will be scrutinised.

Only the match 23 can answer the question of how much damage Albany did to this side, and whether it is actually dead and buried, in the past, as the coaching side have said.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
27 Sept 2017, 12:39
#2
27 Sept 2017, 12:39#2
 More horseshyte from the Doos. Notice how he ducks an all important question.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
27 Sept 2017, 12:43
#3
27 Sept 2017, 12:43#3
"More horseshyte from the Doos."

Dense, I know it's hard for someone who has grown up with foul language in the home to suddenly change his ways but could you at least try to ameliorate your language?

This is a public message board where we're trying to encourage new posters, it's not a Lollipop Lounge in the Cape Flats.

Thanks in anticipation.
SB
Sonny BillClub Pro272 posts
27 Sept 2017, 13:25
#4
27 Sept 2017, 13:25#4
 Rooinek
 
Status: Rugby Legend 
Posts: 6003RE: It is amazing the level to which a certain member allows the Board to deteriorate
July 19, 2017, 09:59:03

Breath mints please Trooth Fairy. If you're going to lick someone's tailpipe clean for them then at least have the decency to take a few breath mints afterwards.

Thanks in anticipation.


SB
Sonny BillClub Pro272 posts
27 Sept 2017, 13:26
#5
27 Sept 2017, 13:26#5
 Rooinek
 
Status: Rugby Legend 
Posts: 6003RE: It is amazing the level to which a certain member allows the Board to deteriorate
July 19, 2017, 09:59:03

Breath mints please Trooth Fairy. If you're going to lick someone's tailpipe clean for them then at least have the decency to take a few breath mints afterwards.

Thanks in anticipation.


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
27 Sept 2017, 13:29
#6
27 Sept 2017, 13:29#6
Looks like there's safety in numbers if you're a Servile Gimp.

S-s-say S-s-onny Buh-Bill that's a buh-bit of a s-s-stutter you have there.

LMAO!
BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
27 Sept 2017, 15:26
#7
27 Sept 2017, 15:26#7
 I would not worry anyone on here would have seen the PG-18 Albany horror show.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Sept 2017, 15:44
#8
27 Sept 2017, 15:44#8
Urinal Mint calls for breath mints.......mints seem to playa big role in his life....collateral damage from having to disguise too many pops at the office?
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
27 Sept 2017, 16:24
#9
27 Sept 2017, 16:24#9
 Love to be a fly on the wall when he slurs his words after a heavy night.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
28 Sept 2017, 02:51
#10
28 Sept 2017, 02:51#10
 Geezum crow but it would be hard to project any sort of "authoratah" at another team after a 57-0 flogging .Lady Etzebeth could thrust his jaw forwards a wee bit more furrow his brow and growl a bit I suppose but I dont think anyone will buy it .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2017, 03:48
#11
28 Sept 2017, 03:48#11
WD this is classical BS.....now the measurable variable, the score, doesn't count. Instead we are looking at the non measurable variable, the 'response'. Loser think.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
28 Sept 2017, 09:48
#12
28 Sept 2017, 09:48#12
 So if the response-o-meter is in the green its all good ? Will there be balloons and fireworks ? A barber shop quartet in reply ?Geez Moz but it is some airy fairy nonsense innit ?Proper response is to play till you drop ,like the Spartan women used to say "with your shield or on it " Re: their return from battle ,that kinda thang.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
28 Sept 2017, 10:46
#13
28 Sept 2017, 10:46#13
 WD this is SA, where the average IQ is below 80. One can pretty much say anything as long as you use a few words that are longer than seven letters you'll be hard pressed to find someone who understands what you're saying, let alone argues it.
Combine that with our political interference and you get situations where the same incompetent coach remains in his job for four years. 
SA used to produce some of the best players in the world...during isolation when we never had the benefit of inter rational experience. 
So what's changed?
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
28 Sept 2017, 11:41
#14
28 Sept 2017, 11:41#14
LOL...a repeat of similar "logic" of that other clown...old Snoekbek who said after a test match (forgotten what game)

"...we won on the field but not the scoreboard!"
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
28 Sept 2017, 16:09
#15
28 Sept 2017, 16:09#15
 Plum its a damn shame ,why dont they put money into developing black players from the grassroots up who are worthy of that jumper ? There must be the cattle surely ? Hell even a change of coach would do wonders.Hey Seb ,guess who scored a truckload of fish on Saturday? Murray cod from 3-7kg [all 5  released } 3 golden perch[yellowbelly  ,all eaten ! ] from 2.5 to 3kg and 3 big old silver perch all from my favourite fishing spot in the Macintyre river .
BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
28 Sept 2017, 16:57
#16
28 Sept 2017, 16:57#16
Grassroots development, now there is a novel idea. Wardad you need to factor 3rd world thinking into your 1st world logic.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
28 Sept 2017, 17:59
#17
28 Sept 2017, 17:59#17
 Seb, that is Beeno logic
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
28 Sept 2017, 19:23
#18
28 Sept 2017, 19:23#18
Well done Wardad...I'm envious...one of these days I hope to go back to Queenstown, Blenheim and Geraldine...the most beautiful trout streams in the world...awesome country...

Dr Win...that's Western Cape "logic"...both PDV (Snoekbek) and Toetsie are Kaapenaars...lolz...they have strange philosophhy down there.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Sept 2017, 20:54
#19
28 Sept 2017, 20:54#19
 Basjan, Snoekbek was the last coach prior to Gatland to beat the ABs in NZ. Snorre has 5 AB scalps. How many international coaches have achieved that in the last 20 odd years. Show some respect.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
28 Sept 2017, 21:15
#20
28 Sept 2017, 21:15#20
 Wardad, here's how it works.
The ANC have been in power for 25 years. They've had all the opportunity in the world to develope social, economic and government institutions. They've failed. 
It's much easier to use political sway to demand black players are put into teams rather than develope those players from school level. Unfortunately the mentality in SA is not one that plans ahead. It's hand to mouth. 
Live near the water and make a fire when it's cold. That's about as much planning as has happened in Africa since the beginning of time. Contrast that with planning required in harsher climates and the rest will explain itself.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
29 Sept 2017, 00:52
#21
29 Sept 2017, 00:52#21
 Damn Plum but its a shame to see all that cattle going to waste ,I read somewhere that black players arent making the step up from schoolboy to club to provincial rugby ,would this be true ? I think its bloody shameful that so many SA players have to ply their trade up north .Now the NH bastards are starting to gloat even though any success is based on SH talent ,otherwise they wouldnt get a look in .I despise NH rugby for what its doing to rugby and now we see the French bastards saying " if you pick us we will throw in gobs of money and we will save rugby by asking our clubs to please not pillage ze tasty SH sides"
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
29 Sept 2017, 08:01
#22
29 Sept 2017, 08:01#22
Ou Draad...lol.

Imho ...Snorre was the team entertainer, motivator and public relations uplifter if you like....yes that's what he did...never a rugby coach's backside...knew very littlel about the technical and strategy side...the experienced side ran on it's own with senior players and Smitty as captain...yes PDV is a very likeable man and a great entertainer...the players liked and enjoyed him and I have no doubt that he had a positive effect on the team.

Toetie differs vastly...he interferes negatively with players, is a yes man and does not have a clue what is required.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Sept 2017, 08:18
#23
29 Sept 2017, 08:18#23
 
Come now, Draad ... you and I both know that "PapSak" had nothing ... and I mean absolutely nothing to do with that series of wins over the All Blacks.

He inherited a team that was on top of it's game ... the world champs at the time ... ranked no 1 on the planet ... which he systematically broke down to an embarrassment within a mere 4 years.

Assigning these wins to him would be suggesting that he actually had a brain.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Sept 2017, 09:20
#24
29 Sept 2017, 09:20#24
 Ou Coetzee is a gentleman but other than that he is almost as daft as Pieter de Villiers.  There NEVER has been a coach in the history of the game that was such a total buffoon as Pieter de Villiers.  Imagine if Jake had continued and then handed over to a competent coach. CC is totally correct no credit can be given to that buffoon Snorre.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Sept 2017, 09:47
#25
29 Sept 2017, 09:47#25
 
Yes Beandip ... his incompetence as a coach would also explain why he never managed to land a decent coaching position since his dismissal.

Everyone can see through him ... except Draad of course.




RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
29 Sept 2017, 09:57
#26
29 Sept 2017, 09:57#26
"There NEVER has been a coach in the history of the game that was such a total buffoon as Pieter de Villiers."

Agree. Twakkie was to Springbok rugby coaching what Donald Tr(*)mp is to the US Presidency.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
29 Sept 2017, 10:15
#27
29 Sept 2017, 10:15#27
Mebbe what happened during PDivvy's reign aint so stupid .....some international cricket teams have had/have a history of the captain & his peer group making many decisions re selections, strategies etc. Problems probably eg. when someone in that group deserves the heave-ho ...... like Smit in 2011.


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Sept 2017, 10:38
#28
29 Sept 2017, 10:38#28
 Snorre rules!!!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Sept 2017, 10:40
#29
29 Sept 2017, 10:40#29
 SNORRE!!!
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
29 Sept 2017, 10:43
#30
29 Sept 2017, 10:43#30
 Mr Original for sure.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
29 Sept 2017, 18:28
#31
29 Sept 2017, 18:28#31
 Unexpected. SA would trade anything for short losses in order to cover for their shortcomings.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
29 Sept 2017, 18:29
#32
29 Sept 2017, 18:29#32
 SA used to produce some of the best players in the world...during isolation when we never had the benefit of inter rational experience. 
So what's changed?


The professional era. Professionalism has exposed SA rugby in all its inepcy.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
29 Sept 2017, 18:34
#33
29 Sept 2017, 18:34#33
 The ANC have been in power for 25 years. They've had all the opportunity in the world to develope social, economic and government institutions. They've failed. 
It's much easier to use political sway to demand black players are put into teams rather than develope those players from school level. Unfortunately the mentality in SA is not one that plans ahead. It's hand to mouth.


The inherited situation was a country on the path to depletion of resources, with most of them shipped away, not even consumed on location, plus the 80 per cent of the population excluded.

Fall guys, nothing more.

Beside, and more importantly, private initiative means not expecting everything from the government. The level of initiative from SA was exhibited as very low.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Sept 2017, 19:41
#34
29 Sept 2017, 19:41#34
 Private initiative can do nothing if the government pokes a stick in the spokes around every corner.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
30 Sept 2017, 01:28
#35
30 Sept 2017, 01:28#35
 It's a crying shame to have to suffer the indignity of PDV...yes he was a clown and yes he was no coach and a further yes he was appointed by the an ignorant SARU who know nothing about rugby but the one thing he did right was to allow the players to coach themselves. Somewhere at the back of his head was a single brain cell restoring much needed sanity, the Boks went onto play some decent rugby only to see their effort sabotaged by Bryce Lawrence at RWC 2011. In a funny sort of way we must credit PDV for not imposing himself on the players.
So to say "There NEVER has been a coach in the history of the game that was such a total buffoon as Pieter de Villiers.".......is just nonsense.
Rudolph Straueli makes an even stronger claim for that title....he was an even bigger clown with a squad of over 100 players, a continuous revolving door if ever I've seen one. On top of that, u nder his tenure the Boks gained notoriety as being thugs and then plumbed to the lowest depth possible with Kamp Staldraad.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Sept 2017, 06:07
#36
30 Sept 2017, 06:07#36
 Denny. Snorre said the stupidest things in interviews and had Muir and Gold for assistants....not ideal either. I don't buy into the "playes coached themselves " narrative. We had a great team, but that wasn't it either. By some odd twist of faith, all the negatives in 2009, resulted in things coming together in something special. In his own weird way Snorre was the catalyst for what happened. I'm baffled as to what he did, but I'm glad for the result.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
30 Sept 2017, 06:12
#37
30 Sept 2017, 06:12#37
 PS, the closest I can come up with is that he was somehow able to manage Victor's ego better than anyone else. The 3 leaders in that team was Victor, Jean and John....with Fdp, Schalk and Fransie in their prime...perfect storm.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
30 Sept 2017, 08:29
#38
30 Sept 2017, 08:29#38
 In his own weird way Snorre was the catalyst for what happened.
Which further enhances my point that Rudolph Straueli was an even worse coach and a bigger buffoon than ou Snorre.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
30 Sept 2017, 10:14
#39
30 Sept 2017, 10:14#39
A tribute to ou Snoekbek...somehow I think he would enjoy and go along with this song:-

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
But I'm doing the best that I can

Who cares, I never get lonesome
Cause I treasure my own company
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
But I'm doing the best that I can
I guess you could say I'm a loner
A cowboy outlaw tough and proud
I could have lots of friends if I want to
But then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd
Some folks say that I'm egotistical
Hell, I don't even know what that means
I guess it has something to do with the way that I
Fill out my skin tight blue jeans
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
But I'm doing the best that I can
We're doing the best that we can
— END OF THREAD —

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