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FORUM / RUGBY /  Retallick best by a long way; by Kris Shannon

Retallick best by a long way; by Kris Shannon

Started by Just_win32 REPLIES579 VIEWS· 07 Jul 2014, 00:35
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 00:35
#1
07 Jul 2014, 00:35#1

Ask his coach whether Brodie Retallick should be regarded the best lock in world rugby and Dave Rennie leaves little doubt.

"By a long way, I reckon," said Rennie after Retallick inspired the Chiefs to a vital 24-16 victory over the Hurricanes in Hamilton last Friday night. "He's just phenomenal."

His all-round effort against the Hurricanes helped the Chiefs' forward pack lay the groundwork for the win they needed to save their season. Now Retallick, 23, will be required to do the same when he runs out at Eden Park on Friday, with another victory essential if the Chiefs are to sneak inside the top six.

And with the way he has performed in the last couple of months - both for his franchise and while on international duty - there is every reason to think Retallick will turn in another virtuoso outing.

The lock was outstanding all over the field against the Hurricanes, strong in the carry, typically vicious in the clean-out and staunch on defence.

He led his side with 12 tackles, while the Chiefs' lineout, a source for concern throughout much of the campaign, was flawless with Retallick at its heart.

Then there was his match-sealing try, which demonstrated his athleticism and speed.

"The big fella's pretty impressive," Rennie said. "If you look at the amount of work he gets through, the numbers are phenomenal.

"Because he carries and carries aggressively, he can square up defences, but he's good enough to shift the ball and throw it out the back door. He's massive for us."

Retallick was relentless throughout last month's English series, continuing the rapid rise he has made on the international scene since making his All Blacks debut two years ago.

His continuous presence in the starting XV, along with the work rate he brings to every match, means the Chiefs have been careful to avoid over-burdening their prize asset, wary that his one-speed style could create burn out. In that regard, a week with minimal training, due to a hip injury in the Highlanders game, might have been a good thing.

"We're conscious of the fact that he has played a lot of footy," Rennie said. "But he's in pretty good nick. He didn't train in the week so that was probably why he was full of energy."

For his part, Retallick was happy to focus on the production of the rest of the forward pack, reluctant to agree he was playing at a level approaching the peak of his powers.

"I'm not sure about that," he said. "I'm always trying to get better and we needed a big performance from everybody. I'm just trying to do my best and do my job out there.

"We wanted to out-muscle [the Hurricanes] up front and we had talked about how long it had been since our forward pack had dominated or got the edge on the opposition forward pack. I think it was a step in the right direction, especially with the playoffs coming up."

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 00:45
#2
07 Jul 2014, 00:45#2
Glad they are trying to manage him but Retallic and Messam have played every game, plus mostly started as ABs. So they both must be close to burn out.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
07 Jul 2014, 02:59
#3
07 Jul 2014, 02:59#3
 Whatever drug Dave Rennie is on I sure want some, sure as hell is better than the crystal meth I'm currently using... 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 09:00
#4
07 Jul 2014, 09:00#4
 It will be interesting to see how he does against some of the top SA locks. He is not all about brute strength/enforcement but his game is more about number of tackles, ruck clean- outs, carries. These days he takes more line out ball also. In the scrum he is ok from all accounts. In short it is his all around game that is his strength.
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
07 Jul 2014, 09:40
#5
07 Jul 2014, 09:40#5
 I know you SA bloggers love to think the best locks in the world are in your backyard, but the whole world can see that Retilluck based on form is the worlds best.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jul 2014, 09:59
#6
07 Jul 2014, 09:59#6
 Just Win
I see that Retallick now moved to the no 5 jumping position in line outs.   He is performing better there than in the front part of the line outs - where he was pathetic - but is still very average.    That remains his main weakness.
He is good in defense and in some cases in ball handling - but is not physical enough to be an effective Tight 5 player.  
I used to rate Sam Whitelok higher than Retallick as a lock - but Whitelock has gone backwards since 2012 and I think at this stage Retallick is the best lock in New Zealand - but the best in the world. not by a country mile.   He is the same type of lock as Matfield - not physical enough to really make an impression.   
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
07 Jul 2014, 10:24
#7
07 Jul 2014, 10:24#7
 Turn it up Clevermike your comparing a 22 year old to a 100 year old geriatric lol wow. Retilluck is clearly the world's best lock, if he isin't the best currently on form then who is, you can bring out the same tired old he is not physical enough e.t.c. Not Physical Enough no is more physical then Retilluck as a ball carrier and fetcher, I know it hurts but you need too accept it .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Jul 2014, 10:36
#8
07 Jul 2014, 10:36#8
 JW
We will see in the upcoming RC - but I have serious doubts about that one.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jul 2014, 11:32
#9
07 Jul 2014, 11:32#9
 Mike, retadlick is 117 kg and we matfiled 106 kg at best. Retardlick is much more physical than matfiled but name me a lock who isnt. Just one.
Retardlick is not in the class of Loodt or Etzebeth. These kbbs actually believe ther own hype!!!!! Retardlick is a solid international lock. Best in the world - Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Now no bleating again 3 IQ simply because this nonsensical view is being dismissed.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 12:21
#10
07 Jul 2014, 12:21#10
In fact Retallick is listed as 120 kilos. He has beefed up and is gradually adding more muscle to his game. He is no string-bean.
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
07 Jul 2014, 14:04
#11
07 Jul 2014, 14:04#11
 I'm not impressed with any of New Zealand's locks. I was never even impressed by Thorn. Would any of their locks add value to the Boks? If you took Matfield, Bakkies, Flip, Lood, Eben and a few others out of the picture, probably. But he is a New Zealander, so we must bow in awe of the next generation Ascended Master. Just like McCaw - he who was never in the top 5 flanks when taking his protection away from him; it takes no skill to sit on your backside on the wrong side of the ruck fighting for possession against the opposition 9, just a blind eye and  few palms greased. Keep dreaming boys.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 15:05
#12
07 Jul 2014, 15:05#12

Firstly the best Bok locks are always injured or in retirment or coming out of retirement or in Europe, Japan or anywhere but in the field playing for SA teams. So that limits the pool of Bok locks for comparison.

 

Secondly in looking at any position and the performance of the player in that position you have to consider the contribution to the team (within the game plan of the team). Having a big fat lock or a skinny string-bean is fine if it is what is needed. If the big fat imobile lock is playing in a team that puts heavy emphasis on winning the scrum & there are other more mobile players around that is fine. Such locks would be rated as effective. Retallick meets the requirements of the NZ style of play for a lock. When he is partnered with Whitelock it is a good combination for the team.

 

So Sun-Tzu, Retallick style of lock play would not fit into the needs of most SA teams but that is not the question at hand. To me he is one of the most effective locks in the world right now.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jul 2014, 15:34
#13
07 Jul 2014, 15:34#13
What a load of rubbish - Retallick was very good last year but has been mostly disappointing this year - best lock in the world - not even close. Right now, Lood de Jager is far better for a start  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
07 Jul 2014, 15:48
#14
07 Jul 2014, 15:48#14
 I enjoy his allround strengths and sometimes he surprises me by poping up all over the park but the best in the world?....naaah, he's good but certainly not the best.
KM
Ka MateClub Pro246 posts
07 Jul 2014, 16:06
#15
07 Jul 2014, 16:06#15
 You Yarpies make me laugh! Lets look at these Yarpie locks who you all rate so highly:

Matfield - A has-been.
Botha - Bakkies would be a strong candidate if this was all about who is the most likely thug to headbutt the oppo scrummie from behind but its not, its about best lock in the world so Bakkies is nowhere.
Elspeth - Lots of hype but Lady Elspeth is permanently injured so who cares? Even when she was playing (if you can remember that far back) she looked average at best.
Du Toit - like Elspeth, always injured and hasnt been seen for months.
Loot Dejager - the only Yarpie lock who can be mentioned in the same sentence as Brodie Retallick but the youngster has only played a handful of Super rugby games and even fewer tests. Can you imagine how you Yarpies would be carrying on if we suggested some new kid on the block like Nathan Harris was a better hooker than Bismarck? Too right, you blokes would be having heart attacks. Same story with Dejager.

Top 3 locks in the world: Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Patrick Tuipolotu. Case closed.

3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
07 Jul 2014, 16:47
#16
07 Jul 2014, 16:47#16
 ^ Me Concur lol, i mean really talk about being neptic, no Nz locks would do well im the Boks lol. Really well based on that logic none of your bok backs would make the bench of any nz super rugby sides, see two can play at that game. But really is this just because Retilluck is a kiwi and your jealous and butthurt gotta love it. Look you can say Retillucks not physical enough, sucks at his core roles as a lock. If 120kg is not physical at 22 i dont kno what is, and hes improoving in the lineouts all the time. In other areas hes the best lock running around at least at super rugby lvl. Ball Carrying Skills, Fetching Skills, Defending and Work Rate is second to none for a lock forward. Look i kno seeing you think all SA forwards are built tough, how could any of those weak nz pansies ever think they could hang. Well retilluck and whitelock have being doing more then just hang. They have for the past two test seasons made your two "locks" look like Cheerleaders or Hurricanes lol. Its just selective thinking to deconstruct Retillucks value, and please with Estebeth the guy currently cannot profess to being the best at anything, hes injured. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Jul 2014, 17:28
#17
07 Jul 2014, 17:28#17
 Unfortunately for the kbbs Etzebeth was a nomination for IRB player of the year. Bwahahahahaha crash goes  3 IQ and Ka ma
Both Etzebeth and Loodt look sas mobile or more mobile than retadlick and whitley.To Etzebeth and De jager we can add Du Toit and Willemse. Add in Jaque Du Plessis as well. Locks they kiwis can only dream about.
As I said I do worry about nz starting to import Saffa forwards!! So far they have resisted the temptation but the poor play of their Super 15 packs must have them wondering and drooling!! Like the rest of the world. They know our currency is weak. Everyon else is doing it. When will they strike is the question?
Beeno keeping it real.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 17:55
#18
07 Jul 2014, 17:55#18

Beeno: If I remember correctly Reid won the award itself, as has McCaw on countless occassion.

 

It is great that they IRB tries to encourage young chaps like Etzebeth & when he finally returns to rugby we will see how good he is. The last time I saw him play he was running away from our pack with a weak excuse about chasing B. Smith.

 

Even your Avatar (which should be Noddy by the way) shows the Etzebeth is about to be hammered by McCaw. You will also notice that McCaw is politely waiting for Etzabeth to come to earth (no illegal tactics from McCaw).

 

PS Retallick was selected again for ToW by Planet Rugby.

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
07 Jul 2014, 19:41
#19
07 Jul 2014, 19:41#19
no NZ lock or player would make the Springboks, NZs players and teams No1 goal is to win everything, a philosophy the Boks of the modern era dont want a bar of soap to do with.

retallick is easily the best lock in the world IMO, ive seen no one match his workrate around the field, do the tight stuff and still contribute to other areas like linking in attack and always there with his scrambling defence.
i have not seen one lock ever in the world that can or has consistently done those things week in and week out, whitelock comes pretty close, but even he is several levels lower then jaws.

sure their are locks all around the world that might be able to do things better then retallick, whitelock is better in the lineouts, lady elizabeth is a more physical player, skelton is a better link man, oconnel is defensively more sound, but retallick is right up there in all those categories, an easy 9 out of 10 in all the categories required from a lock, but also 9 out of 10 in all the other areas required of a player.
not one lock in the world can tick all the check boxes that retallick can, hence why hes the best lock in the world easy.

@mikey,
retallick has always been a No5 lock, he only plays 4 for the All Blacks when hes partnered up with whitelock.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
07 Jul 2014, 19:47
#20
07 Jul 2014, 19:47#20
 You Kiwi's make me laugh, you cry out that us Saffa's are bias saying that Etzebeth is the best lock in the world when you do the same thing with Frankenstein's monster. Retardlick doesn't match Etzebeth in any facet of the game, Etzebeth is more athletic as well as being immensely stronger. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 19:53
#21
07 Jul 2014, 19:53#21
This past week end Retallick was selected for ToW for both Planet Rugby & Rugby 365. 
Link to ToW Rugby 365

No sorry guys the evidence is there. I agree on one thing though... bring on the RC.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
07 Jul 2014, 20:19
#22
07 Jul 2014, 20:19#22
 So because he got into two different team of the weeks he's the best lock in the world? Pretty sure Lood De Jager has been in more team of the weeks. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
07 Jul 2014, 20:36
#23
07 Jul 2014, 20:36#23
Retalick cant be mentioned in the same breadth as Ezebeth. 
A lock that cant jump in the lineout, it like a TV with no screen.



JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Jul 2014, 20:44
#24
07 Jul 2014, 20:44#24
Don't tell anyone but we don't have the Moz vs. CleverMike ongoing "discussions" on this thread 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
08 Jul 2014, 05:33
#25
08 Jul 2014, 05:33#25
This is some real lock play. 
It is not just in the loose, but also in the tight where a lock must make their impact felt.
Whitelock and Retalick are good but they play more like Loosies, than international locks. 
A tight forward must be strong with the ball in hand and able to dominate the advantage line and break through rucks. 
The ABS either take the ball wide or they kick for territory instead of taking it straight through the middle with rolling mauls, pick and carries, driving around the base of the ruck, breaking through the advantage line.This requires stronger ball carriers in the mould of Bismaark, Etzebeth, Alberts and co.


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Jul 2014, 08:57
#26
08 Jul 2014, 08:57#26
 Yeah, Skelton has a lot of  talent. Great ball handling, linking ability + brute strength for the scrum, rucks & mauls. Not so sure how high he can jump in the  line outs though
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jul 2014, 09:44
#27
08 Jul 2014, 09:44#27
 JW 
Seriously now - Retallick was a flop in line out play when he played at 4 and had to jump in front of the line outs.   Now I see the Chiefs are using him - with a bit more success at 5 - ie in teh middle of the line out.  
Whitelock is the normal no 5 lock for the AB's - what will the AB's do with the pair now - both cannot jump in the middle if the line out - if they try that both is going to fail in any event.
The other option would be for the AB's to use Read more regularly 

The only hop the AB's have in line outs is if Meyer goes dilly and play Matfiedl at 5 - he is not physical enough.    If Retallick comes up against De Jager in line outs or generl play  - he is going to look sick.  And Etzebeth will also be back - so another problem for the AB's to contend with.  
I would never come up with the best in the world on any New Zealand lock - they are just not good enough in all round play - they come badly short in Tight 5 play.    
  
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
08 Jul 2014, 09:57
#28
08 Jul 2014, 09:57#28



Morne Steyn bumps off Retallick - Retallick is overrated in NZ
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Jul 2014, 10:17
#29
08 Jul 2014, 10:17#29
 I believe Retallick and de jager had the same number of line out ball wins in the last game. Even though line out jumping is only one aspect of the game so no worries anyway. Beeno's string bean is a good line out jumper so if that was the only criteria Matfield would be the best lock of all time.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jul 2014, 11:12
#30
08 Jul 2014, 11:12#30
 MMM  One take of De Jager was on an opposition throw in.  Then there is also the issue of strong ball carries - De Jager is a much stronger carrier than Retallick - it normally takes two or three players to bring him down and he still goes forward in the tackle - not so with Retallick.   Not to worry - we will see who does better in the upcoming RC games - the Retallick-Whitelock combination or the Etzebeth - De jager combination.  My money is on the latter one.  
Retallick is physically on par with Matfield - not very good when the chips are down.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Jul 2014, 12:18
#31
08 Jul 2014, 12:18#31
 CleverMike: then I am curious as to why you always pick him for your fantasy rugby team? lol
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jul 2014, 13:44
#32
08 Jul 2014, 13:44#32
 JW
Because the better locks have been injured - Etzebeth and Du Toit.    LOL
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Jul 2014, 14:36
#33
08 Jul 2014, 14:36#33
CleverMike: see my post @ 13:01 above . Bok locks are always injured; overseas; old; retired; etc  so & see my conclusion.  
— END OF THREAD —

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