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FORUM / RUGBY /  Richie Mo'unga must start at No 10

Richie Mo'unga must start at No 10

Started by ABasquefan21 REPLIES665 VIEWS· 21 Nov 2018, 14:59
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AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
21 Nov 2018, 14:59
#1
21 Nov 2018, 14:59#1


Richie Mo'unga must start at No 10


Paul Cully14:03, Nov 21 2018
The All Blacks are in Rome this week and the barbarians are most definitely at the gate.

England, South Africa and Wales have all shown signs of improvement this year but Ireland lead the charge.

The All Blacks must find a response and there has been talks of tweaks and new structures.

But tactics should always be subservient to selections and the change the All Blacks must make is to put Richie Mo'unga at No 10 against Italy with a view to keeping him there.





The All Blacks did create opportunities against Ireland at Dublin (you would worry if they did not) but none until Mo'unga came onto the field - and even then he wasn't used in the way he could be.

After coming on in 57th minute it took him four minutes to get his hands on the ball, because the All Blacks could not quite divorce themselves from going to Beauden Barrett.

From a prime attacking scrum with Mo'unga looking poised to run flat and hard at the defence, the All Blacks instead went for a blindside play in which TJ Perenara tried a grubber through for Barrett.

Ireland cleaned it up and sighed with relief.

(...)

People will ask, OK then, but what did Mo'unga actually do that was so special? 

It doesn't need to be 'special'. He narrowed Ireland's defence. The All Blacks don't need magic from every play.

He ran straight at them and turned their shoulders in because they could not afford to drift. He brought Anton Lienert-Brown into the game and suddenly the All Blacks were over the gain line.

Look back at the tape - when Barrett started getting touches of the ball in phase play after Mo'unga, suddenly there was space. That's a mighty coincidence.


But there was not enough of it. 

By my maths Mo'unga touched the ball 21 times (including penalty kicks) as first receiver when he came onto the field.

Barrett had 16 in that same period. He even took back the responsibility for penalty kicks into touch after Mo'unga took one immediately after coming on.

New Zealand has egalitarian ideals but on the field there has to be a leader. Who was calling the plays?

You can erase that doubt by asking Mo'unga to start the game.


Sadly, time has been wasted this year. As recently as late June, Damian McKenzie was still regarded as the second best No 10 - he started the third test against France in Dunedin.

But what is done is done. There is still time.

The thing is this All Blacks team won't be caught if they get it right at No 10.

That conclusion will be met with resistance from the Irish, who can now point to half a dozen world-class operators.

As good as they were the All Blacks still have the edge when it comes to strike runners.

The answers are all there for the All Blacks, and Mo'unga is one of them.


AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
21 Nov 2018, 15:01
#2
21 Nov 2018, 15:01#2

watched the game again yesterday night,... men, with the nerves of the live game I didn't realize how much the game changed when Mo'unga came in,... it was like day and night,.... the AB spent the first 55 minutes completely lost and overwhelmed by the Irish defense,... they were completely unable to break the defensive line and had to kick the ball away,... the last 25 minutes, after Mo'unga came in, were exactly the opposite,... suddenly the AB were able to break the rushing defense, they were keeping the ball, attacking the line, playing flat and creating space outside,... day and night

exactly the same happened the last game against the boks (which was won thanx to him) ,... and to a lesser extent against the argies,... against the aussies and poms he was just given 10-15 minutes,...

as someone (Sneider) very correctly wrote in the comments of this article:

"Three things got confirmed against the Irish:
1. Mo'unga has a superior passing game than Barrett. He stood flat, attacked the line and presented the ball perfectly in front of his runners.
2. Mo'unga is more certain with his decision making when deprived of time and space. He assesses the defence quicker and is clear about whether to attack the line, kick or spread the ball. That gave the ABs some much needed momentum, fluency and structure. By comparison, Barrett took comparatively longer to make decisions so that so by the time he acted the Irish defence have already crowded the outside channel. As a result, he was force to engage with a lot of aimless kicking in behind.
3. Mo'unga at 10 allowed Barrett to play 15 where he has the time and space to show what he's good at."


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Nov 2018, 15:43
#3
21 Nov 2018, 15:43#3

ABF

Interesting thank you

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Nov 2018, 17:04
#4
21 Nov 2018, 17:04#4
I agree ABasque. Moving Barrett to fullback, and benching DMac is the answer. More stability at 10 with Mo'unga, but still with all the attacking danger that only BB can bring.  
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Nov 2018, 17:52
#5
21 Nov 2018, 17:52#5

The Allblacks become vulnerable when they start experimenting too much with their team sellections. BB got player of the year two years in a row playing 10. Playing him at 15 is stupid IMO... 

PS, things changed when Mo'unga came on because things normally change in the last 20 for the Allblacks. 

They step up a gear regardless of the opposition or who's playing at 10.

 It's not a bad Idea playing Mo' at 10 in some games, or giving him 20 and moving BB to 15 for the last 20 in other matches , but moving the best 10 in the game to 15 permanently is plain daft. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Nov 2018, 17:56
#6
21 Nov 2018, 17:56#6

PPS: Moving BB to 15 and making him first receiver on attack reminds of how the Boks use Willie

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
21 Nov 2018, 18:51
#7
21 Nov 2018, 18:51#7
A tough call for Hansen but I think he will stick with Barrett at 10 unless troubles continue. I noticed the difference when Mo’ungo came on the field also - night & day difference. The Ortiz this was not the only change as both sides used their bench. TJ had an impact as did the front row changes & ALB. Coaches need to increase the game time if Mo’unga so he continues to develop. They will need him as past RWCs show you need more than one 10.
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
21 Nov 2018, 20:17
#8
21 Nov 2018, 20:17#8

....yea bring back Cruden they're all saying - he never lost a game he started for the ABs at 10 ...but seriously, the ABs have been rotating the 10s all year and Mo'unga will most likely start in next year's RWC... but Hansen does'nt want to show his hand too early i think a year out....good to keep the opposition guessing what yr going to do next could be the plan....and there's still the need to keep rotating the 10s just in case of injuries eventuating to one of them ...

...just changing the 10 could be simplifying our problems a bit though because plenty of improvement needed in the whole backline - set plays were practically non existent so sack our attack coach as well...our wingmen use to have licence to roam in the backline, what happened to that.. seemed like the ABs backs were just going through the motions with no real plan of attack...the Crotty / Goodhue combo was disappointing - maybe the Crustifarians were just having an off day

...our backrow got schooled by the Irish as well... and i hear Sam Cane may be forced into retirement after breaking his neck so the stocks are wearing very thin ....epecially when we now have to start resorting to locks for loosies...our backrow need to be a lot fitter if we're going to compete next year...

But looking at the scoreline there's not much in it between us and the Irish and i doubt the Irish will be able to repeat that defensive performance keeping us tryless...closely marked will have to be Stockdale though - one of the best and dangerous wings in world rugby atm but other than him not many X factor players...Jordan Larmour another great 21 yr old talent coming through to watch...

Good article on planet rugby on the irish match and on what not to do next time..

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-how-ireland-beat-new-zealand/


DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Nov 2018, 20:32
#9
21 Nov 2018, 20:32#9

Brycie,  the Irish were unlucky not to beat you lot more in the last couple of years. Nothing against NZ, but the Paddies have been very solid for years now...Allblacks did well to keep them out for so long.

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
21 Nov 2018, 20:57
#10
21 Nov 2018, 20:57#10

.. Draad luck is for losers

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:01
#11
21 Nov 2018, 21:01#11

@Brycy,

really hope what you are saying (about Mo'unga being the hiden card for the next WC) it's true,... but I'm afraid they are going to stick with BB at 10,... and with BB at 10 the AB won't win the WC,...  at least South Africa, England and Ireland know how to nulify him and with him the whole backline


agree with what you are saying except for Crotty/Goodhue,... disappointing?..... in the first 55 minutes they had no ball at all, they couldn't do anything in attack because they had no ball at all,... both halves kicked almost every ball and the few that arrived were in atrocious conditions, with the defensive line already over them,.... the centers began to attack the line when Mo'unga came in,... and then Crotty left

but in defense they were inmense,... in only 60 minutes Crotty made 20 tackles and missed none,... he was greatly involved in the breakdowns,... got at least one turnover,... Goodhue was also very involved in the breakdowns getting another turnover and made 16 tackles missing none,... the Irish could never break through them,... and they tried some times


sad to read that about Sam Cane,... can you broden that information?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:11
#12
21 Nov 2018, 21:11#12
Sorry to hear that about Sam Cane but truth be told, I never saw him as anything more than a stopgap between Richie McCaw and the next great openside fetcher on the NZ production line. Ardie Savea only ever had to become more consistent to become the natural successor to Richie and I think he's done that. 
I'd be more worried about finding the next Jerome Kaino or Jerry Collins if I was a Kiwi.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:22
#13
21 Nov 2018, 21:22#13

If NZ does not win the next RWC it will be for a lot more reasons than playing BB at 10...he wins much more matches than he lose.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:30
#14
21 Nov 2018, 21:30#14
Richie Mo'unga at #10 and Beauden Barret at #15 is a no-brainer and I'm pretty sure Hansen will recognise that before RWC 2019.
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:31
#15
21 Nov 2018, 21:31#15

...Abasque, i guess i just expected more penetrating forays from the Crusaders pairing after winning the Super Rugby last year...credit must go to the Irish defence for nullifying everything thrown at them but just seemed our backline was bereft of ideas on how to break through and the attack coach should give himself an uppercut as well...

As far as Cane is concerned i would retire if i was him ...still speculation if that will be the case but you don't want to take any chances with that part of your body...he won't be the same if he does make it back i think...because diving head first into rucks is what he excelled at and he might be hesisitant to do so knowing what could happen..not to mention the stiff necks / tension headaches possibly pain killers awaiting him already when he gets older as anyone with old injuries will attest to..

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:37
#16
21 Nov 2018, 21:37#16

Nah, heard on NZ radio yesterday that Cane hopes to be back for Superugby next year.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:45
#17
21 Nov 2018, 21:45#17
Even if Cane got back to his best form he'd be fighting Matt Todd for a bench spot behind Ardie Savea.
Seems the Kiwis are struggling for world -class loose forwards for once, especially at openside where they've produced the likes of Kevin Eveleigh, Graham Mourie, Michael Jones, Josh Kronfeld and Richie McCaw in the past. Ardie Savea will need to step up to be mentioned in the same breath as those legends and if he got injured then . . . well . . . the All Blacks would be in some serious trouble. 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
21 Nov 2018, 21:50
#18
21 Nov 2018, 21:50#18

NZ Herald

All Black Sam Cane is in a race against time to make the All Blacks' World Cup squad, following a serious neck injury that could've left him paralyzed.

Cane faces another six weeks in a neck brace but is hopeful of a return to the field during Super Rugby following a neck fracture against the Springboks last month.

After a collision with Springboks loose forward Francois Louw in the 35th minute of the All Blacks comeback victory at Loftus Versfeld, Cane stayed down and then looked in obvious pain.

He needed surgery to repair a fracture on the lower right side of his neck and remained in South Africa for a week to recover, missing the end of year tour to Japan and Europe.

Cane has revealed to The Country radio show that it's been a slow recovery as he's been left home-bound since returning from South Africa.

"Recovery is tracking not too bad. It's going to be a slow one. A reasonably serious injury. I've got this neck brace on for three months and I hit the halfway point on Monday this week so another six weeks to go in it. Pretty immobile at the moment, parked up at home not able to drive," Cane said.

"I'm a stay at home dad without the kids, doing jobs around the house and a bit of Netflix. It's a bit boring."

The 26-year-old was hesitant to commit to a return date for the Chiefs in next year's Super Rugby campaign but offered a "rough date".

"All going well I'll probably get the last four to five games of Super Rugby in. We're a little bit skeptical to put a date on it at the moment because I've only seen a specialist once and it all just depends on how it heals.

"[It's] A lot to do with the bone fusing with the two vertebrae together. It could be longer so I just don't want to say it's a date and then keep pushing it out. We'll just see how it goes. I'm just happy that I'll be back playing."


BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
21 Nov 2018, 22:30
#19
21 Nov 2018, 22:30#19

...of course he's still keen / headstrong and i'm sure contractually obiligated to play but still may not be in his best interests long term imho... it's a serious injury as the article said with no definitive timeline of when he will be right to play... can't find the article which speculated on his retirement...

....speaking of loose forwards, Niko Jones has come straight out of school to be awarded an AB Sevens contract...Hansen will be watching Niko son of Iceman Sir Michael Jones with interest i'm sure...could be another 15s bolter given the talent, the pedigree and his brilliant school career captaining St Peters College to glory last year ...also considering the 50 or more ABs that have started their careers as Sevens players only to graduate into the ABs 15 side - Niko could almost certainly be one..


3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
22 Nov 2018, 00:55
#20
22 Nov 2018, 00:55#20

Lol look this is cleary a divisive and polarizing discussion. I dont mind the idea of RM at 10 and BB at 15. But than you got to ask yourself where does the best full back in the world go B Smith? On the RW? I dont like him their. Hes best at fullback. IF this whole thing is A) Accomodating RM and B) Blaming BB completly for the loss. OR the AB backline not functioning. Than I think that is narrow minded. The ABS are employing different gameplans on this tour. That I dont think is their natural way of playing. That is more why NZ are struggling. BB is a match winner. And 9 times out of 10 going to win the WC for NZ at 10. Than he is at fullback. I am worried NZ are falling into this trap of experimentation. We still dont know what our best 12 and 13 pair is. 

We still have not decided if B smith should be at fullback. TJ is clearly the inform Halfback. But Hanson sticks with Aaron, whos out of form Now were talking about. RM being at 10, and BB at fullback. BB Againgst England was brilliant. ONly reason NZ won. And nearly won it for NZ againgst IRe. i thought RM made some impact. But he was going sideways for me. The moment NZ played it flat. Instead of kicing possesion away. We got potency. But Hanson has made no suggestion. He intends to move BB. Theirs also the problem with RM lack of prooven ability againgst Tier one sides. In any case this would be my side for next year. I dont mind BB at fullback btw. I just think hes really growing at 10. And I like I said wins more games for NZ at 10 than loses. Our tight five is more the pressing issue.

15. B Smith 14. J Barrett 13. J Goodhue 12. N Luamape 11. R Ioane 10. B Barrett 9. TJ Peranara 8. K Read 7. A Savea 6. Shannon Frizell 5. S Whitelock 4. B Retalluck 3. J Moody 2. D Coles 1. O Franks

16. C Taylor 17. K Tufuakufe 18. O Tungafasi 19. S Barrett 20. V Fifita 21. A Smith 22. R Mounga 23. D Mckenzie

As for this weeks side...

1. K Tufukufe 2. D Coles 3. O Franks 4. S Barrett 5. B Retalluck 6. V Fifita 7. D Papaili 8. A Savea 9. TJ Peranara 10. R Mounga 11. R Ioane 12. N Luamape 13. J Goodhue 14. W Naholo 15. B Barrett

16. N Harris 17. N Laulala 18. O Tungafasi 19. P Tuipolutu 20. L Squire 21. TTT 22. D Mckenzie 23. A L Brown

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
22 Nov 2018, 01:13
#21
22 Nov 2018, 01:13#21

Hansen's handling of the centres has been more and more problematic all season. If we are looking for reasons why Barrett is too much of a focal point, look there. I don't think this is as simple as starting Mo'unga. Hansen has some bold decisions to make. He better start making good calls, because he piddled away a season playing musical chairs. 

3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
22 Nov 2018, 01:21
#22
22 Nov 2018, 01:21#22

Yep I agree Flyhalve is the focal point. But I dont think moving BB to 15, and RM starting 10. Well automatically fix alot of the probs ABS are having. A more underlying issue. Is our Cntr pairings. We dont know what Our best 12 is. I Think Goodhue should be 13. But as for 12 its a toss up. SBW I think should be in the WC squad. But not as a starter. I think Luamape and ALB should be promoted. Another area for concern. Is our loose trio. I am not worried about Read, he just came back from Back Surgery. Give him an off season. Ardie has really grown on this tour. But we lack depth particularly on the blind. Got some promise their. With Frizell, Squire, Fifita. But lack of exp. Read no longer as Mcaw outside him. Or a Kaino. So these questions need answerwd fast. Selection Policy needs changing. I am all for evolving. I Think if NZ is going to retain they cant be stuck in 2015. But at the same time Exp and Rep is still crucial. The average age of the 2003 RWC winning England side was 32. I Think getting the balance is key. But personally I Think its our selection policy, and gameplans. That are the biggest problem. Changes are needed. Looking at that. 

1. J Moody 2. D Coles 3. O Franks 4. S Whitelock 5. B Retalluck 6. S Frizell 7. A Savea 8. K Read 9. TJ Peranara 10. R Mounga 11. R Ioane 12. N Luamape 13. J Goodhue 14. J Barrett 15. B Barrett/B Smith

16. C Taylor 17. N Laulala 18. O Tungafasi 19. S Barrett 20. A Ioane 21.  V Fifita 22. A Smith 23. D Mckenzie

— END OF THREAD —

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