
sharkbok
Captain23,293 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
06 Nov 2014, 03:19#2
I thought with the new rules that 2 props could be included in the bench as part of the 23 match day team. It would be prudent to have at least one prop that can cover both sides of the scrum in the event of 2 injuries, or if a late replacement is required. Coenie could be a player that covers both sides of the scrum and used as an impact player. He cant scrum on either side of the scrum, do does it really matter if he comes on at loosehead or tighthead
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2014, 07:13#3
The weakest scrummagers we had this year was Steenkamp and Jannie du Pessis. The inclusion fo teh second one in the team is inexplicable - since he is also a liability insofar as play outside of scrummaging is concerned.
As SB said Coenie is a poor scrummager at this stage - so what he is doing in the team is a serious problem. However, unlike Jannie he is useful outside of scrummaging.
06 Nov 2014, 08:46#4
I understand the logic behind this theory but in all honesty to select a player who doesn't make that much of a difference in the tight loose anyway and isn't capable of scrumming properly on either side of the scrum, is just another indication of Meyer's foolishness.
What happens if we need him to step up to the plate 4 or 5 times in the second half?
We lose the set piece and gone is any possible momentum they worked hard for.
It's absurd.
Coenie should do the right thing and go home. He's not good enough to play test rugby.
06 Nov 2014, 08:52#5
Coenie is good enough, and offers a shartload more than Jannie in open play. Also, he is sufficient at scrum time, but only when playing at 1. Anyway, Jannie has been giving away penalties left and right recently, so I don't see how Coenie could be worse.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Nov 2014, 09:18#6
Am I missing something. If Jannie gets injured 5 minutes into the game is Coenie the guy we want at tighthead for the rest of the match. Based on observed form - no. Coenie is excellent outside the scrum but a risk is being taken here unless it is thought Nyankane can playtighhead.
Malherbe is a stronger scrummager than Jannie and also very good outside the scrum. A top young prop. Marcell also has correctly been selected by Meyer because he is good.Add to all this Du Toit, Kitshoff and Kebble and and we have a great set of young props.Sorry I could add to the list Redlinghuys and Schalk van der Merwe.
Instead of playing Jannie into the ground meyer should consider usuing a guy like Redlinghuys. He has done well consistently at Super 15 level against test props.
Loodt also should be invested in and Willmese wasnt even picked - ideal lock for NH!!! Instead we have pap victor!!!!Then we have the mediocre oupa ahead of Schalk Burger!!
But for an injury we could have had Pienaar back.
We have thrown away a lot of clout in the pack but for what? It is so disappointing to see the side knowing it could be so much better. Still one hopes we can put away Ireland. Trusting we have no bent kiwi ref like Honiss to deal with!!!!!!!!!!
06 Nov 2014, 09:33#7
I disagree with you Blue.
Coenie isn't in my view test material. Not as a looshead and definitely not as a tighthead.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that I wouldn't want him in my Super Rugby team either.
He's a penalty machine. The little bit of work he does in the loose is not worth his selection.
"Am I missing something. If Jannie gets injured 5 minutes into the game
is Coenie the guy we want at tighthead for the rest of the match. Based
on observed form - no."
Exactly ... "HELL NO" .........
Best tightheads we have are Marcell and Julian and as usual neither have been considered.
BIbiltongbek
Club Pro749 posts
BIbiltongbekClub Pro749 posts
06 Nov 2014, 14:57#10
Winning scrum stats can often be misleading. It doesn't tell you how many resets, how many scrums were under pressure or the conditions we scrummed in
06 Nov 2014, 15:33#12
Same as many other stats.
It doesn't give you the whole picture.
I've tried to explain it to Mike and Mozart but they're set in their ways.
Stats are for those who don't have an argument. Besides that, Mozart is famous for fabricating his own stats ... all depending on what tall tale he wants to spin you.
06 Nov 2014, 15:51#14
Moz do you honestly think Jannie is the player to take to the world cup next year? Also, how do you rate his play outside of the scrums?
We have so little time left as it is, and we absolutely have to give the up and coming guys game time. Even if Jannie regains form, which I can't see happening, what do we do if he gets injured?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2014, 16:31#15
I agree. But we have to be critical about the possible replacements.....how does it help to delude ourselves that Malherbe is the man, when he has so much to prove.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2014, 16:38#17
One wonders who is the biggest fool on thiss ite when it comnes to player evaluation. I have looked at various instances and the fact is that it can only be Mozart.
The fiool has the audacity to post videos on the site and then interpreted the outcome in an unbelievable way. Take the lastest video's about the scrumming in teh Argentina test. The scrumming of the Springboks up to minute 45 was an outright disaster - with the scrums disintegrating constantly at s reserve speed i have never seen in Springbok rugby before in my life.
Malherbe came on and the first scrum was at minute 50. "Malherbe pushed back and wheeled. " That was BS - the scrum was stable and may have gone back about half a meter on his side - there was no wheeling.
Minute 63.14 onwards. "Numerous collapses on Malherbe's side...ref awards penalty for Malherbe cracking inwards and down." From that one would swear that Malherbe ws the cause of the scrum going down repeatedly. If one look at the scrums carefully - the player that went down was the Argentine prop - he was on his face on the ground - Malherbe was bent own because of it. Whjhat happened inthe final scrum - a chance call was made by the referee and it went the Argentine way because Malherbe lost his bind in the process not for going down.
Minute 72.00. " Malherbe's side down again....but ref lets play go on." It was ckear as daylight that the going down was caused by the Argentine player in this case and the referee allowed the game to go on a- otherwise he would have penalized Malherbe if he was the cause of the scrum going down.
Minute 80.59...."against two Bargie sub props now.....Boks go forward on the Beast's side, Malherbe wheels." Absolute BS - how can a scrum go forward and a player in teh scrum going gforward is blamed for wheeling?
This si a case where one can only take it that bias and disike played a major role in interpretation. If it was a single case where ithappened - but with Mozart it is routine. When his favoured a player he would exconerate the playr from any mistakes made blaming other players for the resultant mess.
Mozart's descriptions of what happens during games is so unbeleivable it is not even unny.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2014, 17:23#18
No need to take your biased word for it Oupa....the clip is right there for everybody to make up their own minds.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2014, 18:07#19
Mozart
No need to take your biased word for it Mozart -the clip is right there for everybody to see what BS you wrote and make up their own minds.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Nov 2014, 22:28#22
Malherbe was clearly a lot better than Jannie. The Argentina prop should have been penalised for collapsing the one scrum reset. The one penalty was very 50/50.Malherbe showed clearly in the clip he was better than Jannie.
Malherbe, a young prop, will be better than Jannie ever was. Meyer is correct to have singled him out for inclusion in the Boks at such a young age for a prop.
Please read my post "Meyer back to mad scientist" where Tank L anning a former WP prop discusses Coenie Malherbe etc.