I am not surprised by this development. Goosen suffered from concussion in his latest match and is likely to be out for a week or two, Louw had an ankle injury in the match against Benneton.
I do not see much of a future for Libbok on test level but the fact that both Libbok and Ngomezulu are called up indicates to me that the Springbok coaching staff may have doubts about Libbok as well.
Zulu looks like a very all-around player with no apparent weaknesses in his game. The final test will be how he performs in tight test matches with minimal space.
Also, hopefully, he will not be an injury-prone player like Goosen.
Goosen would have gotten many more tests for the Boks if he was not so injury-prone.
Zulu looks like the real deal, and could even be a contender for a starting position at the next world cup, or at least a bench option.
He looks very tall, and he is certainly strong in contact. A skilful player like Willemse.
I must say South Africa probably has more depth than ever- especially in the backline.
More black and coloured player resources have given South Africa an extra dimension on the attack.
Quick and quite a step
I saw Ngomezulu the first time in the Under 20 Summer Season Cup when he played for the Juniors against all of England, France, Ireland and Wales and they won all games by huge margins. I was specifically impressed by what I saw of him at flyhalf. He can develop into a real top class flyhalf like Pollard did.
I do not rate Libbok as a potential Springbok flyhalf at all, We have NO problem at 12 - but Willemse is a very good back-up - that could even be considered at `13. Ngomezulu is indeed the real deal - not Libbok.
Libbok's style don't suit the Bok game plan.
.https://www.rugbypass.com/news/erasmus-takes-a-pop-at-eddie-jones-over-dual-qualified-mngomezulu-springboks/
Well R&N think so, otherwise he would not have been invited to camp...he has proved time and time again that he can close tight games out tight games....Zulu can be eased in off the bench.
BB
What is wrong with England Rugby? Why are they always looking at other countries born people to augment the English sides?
Libbok and Roos has gone a bit flat over the last 3 or 4 matches.
Roos came storming out of the blocks against Connacht, but then got marked for all the other games. Still very active but not the big line breaks I was hoping for. His discipline and attitude is also a concern. Got sent home on breaking team protocols, hence not featuring.
Then, Libbok, hasn't done much wrong, but missed a few difficult kicks. Like less assured in the wet in Wales over the last two games and as a result, the stormers could only muster a draw and a loss. Not what I was hoping for against really weak welsh sides.
Finally, I like Sacha and probably think that he will pip Libbok, only because of his versatility. Will be a massive knock to Libbok, but I think Sacha plays more in the style that Rassie likes and probably also had direct exposure to Rassie given that Rassie looks after all SA teams and would have had a few good chats with Bfana. Also note, how the baby boks used their power and good kicking against European teams during the most recent tournament. Although, still a million miles away from actually competing at the top level. Would love to see how he does against top teams like Leinster and possible a few of the best English and French teams before I can call it.
So what style does Rassie like?? Look at Pollard when Rassie started off coaching the Boks and Swys was still there, Pollard was still playing his Natural style attacking the Gain line at will....as time went by he became more and more conservative and was also missing some crucial kicks just before he was off injured.....the Boks need change in the way they play, more dimensions should be added and a guy like Libbok or Sacha can do that for the Boks.....and if you look at how Wiese started it was marred with mistakes + Penalties, after having the proper chances to settle in, he is doing much better.....so ja Roos might be off his game at the Moment which is understandable at this level, but if proper time is given to settle into the System, he will do better.
I must say South Africa probably has more depth than ever- especially in the backline.
More black and coloured player resources have given South Africa an extra dimension on the attack.
What a comment. There is no point in the comment other than being inflammatory for the sake of it.
No it's not inflammatory, other than you seeing it that way...sorry to hear about your Problems ....but shark is correct. With the likes of Arendse, Fassi, Willemse, Am, Kolbe, Libbok, Sacha just to mention a few. They bring that natural instinct to see play and run or pass cleverly to Put Players into space and score.....the Problem is R&N dont utilize this side enough in these players.....surely it must be possible to create more on the attack, without losing our Forward intensity??
I 100% agree with you power. I'm just looking into what type of players have been selected. So, if it was up to me, Willemse would be, Roos 8, Libbok 10, Willemse 12, Gelant 15. Really great spine from the Stormers. We know what we have in De Allende, Pollard and Wiese / Vermeulen.
But we squandered test experience over selecting Vermeulen when we could have picked Roos instead. They picked Vermeulen because they were to afraid of losing, but then we lost anyway.
Just wish they would apply the same philosophy. If you don't show up on Monday, you don't get selected for Saturday. They should extend it to, if you have played 2 or 3 games of first class rugby, you don't get selected.
Which brings me to another point, think we need figure our top player contracts so that in the even that they are injured and making their way back, that they are playing enough games before being pulled into the team
I am very glad the two of you are not responsible for team selection - because neither of the two of you realize where the problems were in team selection since 2021. You both believe that there was forward momentum in backline play under Meyer when there was none.
There were no problem in forward momentum of the backline in 2019 and there are two issues you missed out totally, namely the -.
* issue of the functioning of the flyhalf as pivot in backline attacking; and
* augmenting of attacking by getting especially the loosies involved in attacks by the backline.
The main problems the Springboks had since 2021 relates to a flyhalf problem. Because perhaps as a resukt of injury Pollard has under-performed and the alternative Jantjies was a joke. So you want to replace the whole backline with inexperienced players and especially a player like Libbok - who has been an adequate player on provincial level - but in everything he in fact is no different from Curwin Bosch. Will he succeed on international level - the chances are maybe 10% against weaker teams when he is not under pressure.
No it's not inflammatory, other than you seeing it that way...sorry to hear about your Problems ....but
shark is correct. With the likes of Arendse, Fassi, Willemse, Am,
Kolbe, Libbok, Sacha just to mention a few. They bring that natural
instinct to see play and run or pass cleverly to Put Players into space
and score.....the Problem is R&N dont utilize this side enough in
these players.....surely it must be possible to create more on the
attack, without losing our Forward intensity??
Over the last few decades, there has been an increasing trend that contradictions do not exist, that uttering the same comment than another must be corrected.
The quoted part admits it: there is no sign of the claim on the field. It does not exist. Supposedly, it could be brought to the field etc
Calling for talent in the backline from a SA rugby side is inflammatory (and no, quota players and their supposed natural instinct for it (sic) changes nothing)
It is admitted in the quoted part: the assumption has yet to pass the test of the field.
SB
Go back and study the facts since 2007 as to the forwards scoring the most points for thye Springboks - which are and were correct until 2018. Backline tries were far and few in tests. By 2015 the backline performances were never aimed at scoring of tries. Yet ou neverr moan ed about it then.
That started changing already in 2018 - but in 2019 most tries were scored by backline players and there were plenty of those.
In 2021 and thus far in 2022 there was a relapse in that regard - but careful analysis showed that there were problems in functioning of the scrummies and the flyhalfs in those two years. Problems in those two positions have a direct impact on backline attacking and that si the real sisue to eb solved in this case.
"Libbok, Willemse and Gelant were largely responsible for the Stormers winning the URC title last season"
Can ad Roos and Deon Fourie to that list.
I don't think we should waste caps on Fourie...because of his age, but he is certainly good enough to be there...he was in great form last season...he can contribute with his experience, but he should be nothing more than a fringe emergency selection off the bench...Roos should start as much as possible since last year end tour.
Whatever style Rassie likes, it doesn't come close to what Swys would be able to achieve as head coach.
Swys took a bunch of unknowns and built a team that would decimate the Boks, and most other test sides too.
That's pretty much the only data point required.
I don't dislike Rassie though. I just think that Swys is superior.
And when we look at what is available today, in terms of young and dynamic backs and forwards...it's a crying shame that Swys isn't there to capitalise.
Ja, Swys is a fantastic attacking coach, but the Lions imploded after he took over from Johan Ackerman. They guy had to take time out because of mental issues. Not that I'm saying he can't, and I'm glad he looked after himself, but he is at his best when only focusses on the attack.
Rassie is more conservative than any of our previous coaches. It is effective and make the boks a hard team to beat, but it is not perfect. Nothing to the All Blacks from 2010 to 2016. That team could conjure up wins in the dying minutes. They would drop two converted tries and then just with in a space of 10 min, score 3 tries and put the game away.
That is why I'm so critical of Rassie, it is process rugby. You selected your weaker players to start, then bring on your best players for last, but when you hit an injury or the starting player is having horrible game, you have to yank him early. As a result, your Bomb squad now has to play 20 min more with which they are not use to. We saw this against the All Blacks.
I would like to see more creative plays of our set pieces, stop messing the ball when we have a scrum penalty. Just go out and try to break the line, instead of no hope kick.
KC
I am amazed at you. what you would like to see is not what really happened since 2004. The only difference was in 2019 when backline play reached a level much higher than it was since 2004 - when backline play was only against weaker team in evidence. I like what you write about backline play - but cannot see how that can ahppen with problems at flyhalf and scrummie - solve those and the rest would follow. .
Manpower
That is a very real problem where I agree with you. The problem is that Du Preez was tried in 2018 at flyhalf and was a total disaster. Since then total dependence was on Pollard and Jantjies, Both were poor since the start of the 2021 tests - in fact to call Jantjies as being poor is an under-estimate - he was a a real disaster.
It is not acceptable when coaches do not act on player replacements when dealing with selection deficiencies coming to the fore. I know Willemse looks very good - but his goalkicking leaves question marks.
Yes Mike I was Hoping du Preez would do better, because he had Really good games for the Stormers....I know test level is quite a bit more pressure, but I feel that sometimes our talented players don't get enough game time @ test level and get discarded to quickly...Willemse is very versatile and excels in most of his Positions....but we can't afford to loose those points because of inaccurate goal kicking....hope that he works hard on that department as I think R&N will definitely Start Willemse @ 10....With hopefully either Sacha or Libbok starting of the bench...nothing against Goose, but the man needs more time to get his edge back...especially after such a long injury lay off... I feel for the guy being so injury prone......when Goose is on he is really good....I mean he almost single handedly beat the Bok A side in that Warm up Game.
