Rugby bias

I just heard Swys De Bruin on a radio interview having a solid bitching session about a bias among referees in favour of NZ teams. Now, I am not one who normally moans about biased refereeing, I normally just see it as losers looking for excuses, but there does seem to be a consensus out there that there is in fact a bias in favour of NZ teams. 

If it is possible, and I doubt it is, can we have a discussion on the issue without emotion and bias? From my point of view, I never really thought there was any particular bias, apart from the odd incident here and there and the blatant Bryce Lawrence saga. I just put the ongoing discussion down to biased fans, and referees getting things wrong from time to time. But there does appear to be a genuine case to answer, if what has been said in the media and on platforms such as this is anything to go by. 

So what is it, is there bias, or is it just a perception? 

Think you have been drinking to much of beeno's cool-aide BB, this has been regurgitated on here for as long as I have been coming here by some of the most experienced excuse makers you have got.

Chances of a sensible discussion here is bloody ZERO

Lets see Crusty. I think there are a few level headed folks here, of course we know what Beans is going to say, he's pretty obvious like that.

Seriously though, remove your allegiances, do you think it is possible that there is a bias? That maybe referees feel intimidated by NZ's class?   

There is a difference between intended or pre-planned "bias" and sub-conscious "bias". Professional referees wouldn't survive in the business if they manipulated results but I do believe in certain cases that sub-conscious bias does play a part...ie they favour the stronger team and sometimes the home side in the case of a marginal error/difficult call when there is an iota of doubt. A weak referee too can be swayed by hostile support...in rugby and also in football.

Nigel Owens, who I rate as one of the best, despite I find him irritating at times (when he draws attention to himself) says there is generally no intentional bias among professional refer ees and I believe he in this context is right.

Isolating NZ referees too is wrong and hypocritical by jealous and very biased supporters and spectators...biased people pointing at pre-supposed biased refs.

My attitude is stop blaming refs but rather up your game and improve so that you can win sometimes...that's the best for the game overall and the most respectful way of all.

Excuses make weak people (and nations)...adversity is something to overcome...in fact in all things...sport is just a less serious issue...sport was meant as a sport for enjoyment...it's not to prove a nation is superior as some nations do...we Saffas have to change our mindset.

So where was the bias for NZ during the BIL tour last year ? and in 2007 ? just 2 that spring to mind.

Thing is people forget all the calls that go the other way ,I may well point out how the Irish get away with more illegal and flat out dirty play [ BBs head after scoring in Dublin anyone ?] than any team I can recall .2016 they were getting penalised 3 times per game vs SAANZAR teams as opposed to 9+ .

Chances of a sensible discussion here is bloody ZERO

Agreed. If you double the IQ, you're still left with a halfwit. But there is some enjoyment to reading this stuff, even if its painful. It's somewhat like observing the antics of a drunk slut on JHB station - you're simultaneously compelled to watch and to not see. 

BB I cant really say as 99% of the games I watch have at least 1 kiwi team playing so cant compare  to games with Aus/SA sides.

I would hate it if there was deliberate bias but think its more subconcious, after all refs are people so things will never be 100% even. What can happen is they go to far to show they are not biased and distort it the other way and favour the other team.

Here are a few things I have seen that indicate bias towards New Zealand:

1. Double spear tackle on O'Driscoll in 2005, breaking his leg. No punishment. 
2. Several punches to the face of Van Niekerk in 2002. No punishment. 
3. Spear tackle on Paulse in 2007. No punishment. 
4. Spear tackle on Smit in 2008. Ended his Tri Nations campaign in game 1. No punishment. 
5. Throat slam on Jantjes, which preceded the Smith spear tackle. No punishment. New Zealand were actually awarded a penalty. 
6. Holding Bakkies back by the shorts. No punishment. 
7. Punching of Romanian hooked 7 times in the face in World Cup 2007. The same day that Burger was cited and banned for 4 game for a midget Samoan colliding with him in the air for a high ball. 
8. Two throat slams in World Cup 2011 final. One preceding the penalty to win the game. 
9. Holding defenders to allow ball carriers to break freely around or through the defence. Many tries have been scored this way, at all levels. 
10. Jumping for high balls with knees up and into the opponent. We are penalised for this. So too Australia. They never get called for this. 
11. Flopping on to the ruck. Sitting on the wrong side of the ruck wrestling the opposition 9 for the ball. They can do whatever they like very often. 
12. Chief's player shoulder charge to the face of Barret. No punishment. 
13. Multiple counts of off the ball offences by So'oialo.
14. Obstructing kick chasers. This was very, very common for many years. They'd trip, hold, or corral, and sometimes build a screen comprising two to three players. 
15. Not binding properly at scrum time, so the flank can make a quick break on our ball carrier. Sometimes called, but conveniently not called other times, a lot. 

Another SA fit of victimology.

Teams that play the rules provide themselves with a bias. Nothing unexpected.

Now teams who break the rules usually do not benefit from such bias unless they are favoured.

SA rugby teams are the most favoured as when looking to the infringements, SA players are protected.

Toeing the off side line is playing with the rules. It comes with a bias of assessment. That is what NZ sides do for example.

Biting an opponent is nothing like that, it is breaking the rules. It is bringing on the field a behaviour that is born out of the rules.

Yet on multiple occasions, it was shown that SA players are given a free pass on these acts. Lately, a SA player got taken red handed biting an opponent, punishment was reduced in half because the guy admitted.

Discounting all the other multiple occurrences etc

Off /on side positions are part of the game. Game situations that come with assessments.

Biting is not part of the game. Nothing in game rules call for biting.

So another fit in victimology from SA people on this board.

WR has always been the most lenient with SA, yet the tale that others are favoured is heard.

When a nation wins a World Cup because of biased reffing, there is a problem. When a team can break legs, smash faces with shoulder charges, punch opponents in front of refs, take out players for lengthy layoffs there is a problem. What would have happened had Bakkies spear tackled McCaw and took him out for several months? Nothing? I doubt it. There is nothing in the rules justifying these things either. However, here you are, an apologist for a foreign nation. Why are you here? 

Well said Moz...and yes Cloudy, being the best have a few disadvantages too...and I'm sure you gladly take the bit of bad coming with being the best...I gladly would.

Small, but great positioning, hands and awareness. Some of those Aussie tries were unbelievable. I haven't seen Australia score a try like those since the days of Mortlock. 

... Sounds like victimology to me too Trad...and now we have pussies like Mozart arguing for the feminization of rugby..

I listed many examples. This isn't in the mind, this is a reality. 

...Bean Brain,, 1970s SA refs taught us everything we know...they wrote the book..

BIASNESS...we are world leaders in this department...even a country mile ahead of the yanks and poms...Just a bunch of...don't know what...perhaps non-thinkers...in other words fools who copy and repeat what they read or see through the evil manipulating, sensational seeking media...bias is one the biggest problems in living in this world...it's route causes are mental lethargy and the inability to find out by going there and seeing for one's self...simply trusting propaganda and media reports is naive and very dense and stupid...find out facts and stop the the squeaking and monotonous bias and bleats...take trouble to investigate facts...travel timrous SA beasties and  face to face with other countries and not the shite that's spewed out...SA's stare blankly at disasters and never learn...we must rank as one of the most mentality retarded in the universe...yes we are nice people but ext remely dof and stupid.

How does one fight this when the rot starts at the top? It's like rape victims, who do they go to when the criminals are protected by the toxic institutions? There is much Video analysis out there which proves these things are true. Many coaches have spoken out about it. Nothing changes though. Tactically, how can you circumvent some of these things? Holding defenders. Negating contests for the high ball. Breakdown interference. There is no way to combat these things without breaking the law too. However, we'll be penalised, compounding the problem. I felt bad for Dean Greyling for being red carded. McCaw was getting away with ruck interference on the opposite side of the ruck all game. The poor guy lost it and just punched him. Red card though. He isn't an All Black. He can't laugh it off like McCaw laughed in the faces of refs. Remember Mr Richie" 7 final warnings" McCaw? 

Moz, it's all fine as long as the greatest team ever to play rugby is worshipped at the shrine. 

Fair enough...those of us with some sense and education scorn biasness but also must be careful not to fall in the trap (incidentally we all do unintentionally) as prejudging things we either don't fully understand or comprehend and become hypocrites. I was extremely blessed and fortunate as a child... my parents were extremely strict and had I many hidings (tough love) but also had lots and lots of love and we were guided to think and yes think again...and understand other people...you are in this world not for yourself only but to share...we are all different and the secret of enjoying relationships is emphathy,, sometimes sympathy and most of all respect. My dad always said that respect is always earned by lowly and even lofty people if it's given...some people believe respect comes to those who earn it... that's a bit twisted because that makes respect dependent of what you can receive instead of what you can give...love works the same way...even the Lord said said (commanded) love your enemies and those who despicably use you and yes to be a sentimental...he's not heavy ...he's my brother.

Fa ark, Basjan, what are you saying? 

Fark next you will be wanting halo's and white robes for the Boks and expect us to do a beeno and grovel for forgivness at their feet.

This is just a continuation of you lot acting like cry babies. For ages beeno whinged that we were getting away with murder and the refs were biased towards us then the stats show we were penalised the most and all he can say is see I told you they were cheats and stopped going on about ref bias and now we have gone full circle again.

I am sure someone could come up with a list of biased calls that went SA's way as long if not longer than one that can be made against the AB's

The real reason the boks get arse raped every time they play us is simply because your team is SHIT. 

In order to take lurker seriously maybe he should include things like the number of times Maccaw has been king hit and its gone unpunished ?

What a load of sooky loser bollocks.

Y'all need to wipe away the tears and grow a fucking pair.

Anyone record the Lions vs Tahs game on Saturday?

That was a fair contest between two teams not trying cheat. 

Watch this Saturday's game and I'll bet that you'll see the Saders turning in on the tighthead, retreating slowly, being perpetually off side and laying all over the ball at ruck time.

Who knows, we might even see another kiwi flying kick a player to the face. Remember that little fantastical conspiracy of mine Wardad? Remember how it all nonsense...until it happened exactly as I said? It's both embarrassing and disgraceful.

We all watch a lot of rugby and anyone who is not a kiwi is able to see the difference in how Kiwi teams are coached to cheat other teams arent.

Like Lurker says, and like I've said before...fans, coaches, journalists and players from ALL the major rugby nations talk about it.

The Kiwis will however tell you that you're the first to mention it and that you're crazy.

^^^^^ Case in point 

^^^^^ yet another

Yup your just a fucking sook plum.Suck it up precious and stop whining.

WD...did you ever comment on that intentional flying kick to the face and the massive string of co-incidences that lead to it?

Allow me to walk you through the very tedious link...

* Smith is spotted kicking out at player's faces with studs up. During the world cup a Welsh player is injured by it.

* I raise the point on the site and am told to stop smoking weed and dreaming up conspiracies.

* Some months after first mentioning it i post footage showing Skosan having to duck out of the way of a flying boot launched at him after the player catching the ball has already landed. Again told that there was nothing unusual about it by the kiwi peanut gallery.

* More and more examples of Ben Smith's teammates at both the Highlanders and the ABs appear almost weekly showing them specifically going out of their way to kick out at players.

* Wardad yet again claims that i'm dreaming it up and "complaining". Obviously WD wouldn't mind his son being kicked in the face when chasing a high ball. Neither would any kiwi here. They're obviously such tough folk.

* Finally a kiwi player is sent off for kicking an Ozzie in the face when the Oz player had actually stopped and was waiting for him to land - surprise surprise it was Ben Smith's teammate who did this. How many stitches did he require?

* Kiwi scramble to all corners and come up with the most ridiculous of excuses to try and claim that it was not intentional, not a regular occurrence, not coached and certainly not as bad as it looked. 

Here...

"When coach Aaron Mauger stressed the importance of a good kicking game, that wasn't what he had in mind, and Nabura's baffling brainfade(Just a one off then...yeah right) - which could see him banned for the rest of the season - left the Highlanders in an untenable position."

As i recall you steered clear of the site for weeks after the incident.

Some blamed the player. Not me. I blame the institutions and societies that that propagate that type of behaviour. From memory, i don't believe i've seen a player from any other country do that. Do you?

It's obvious as hell to anyone paying attention that this was a deliberate tactic. Funny how after t hat sending off we have seen much fewer kung fu on the field. What massive co-incidence huh?

And it raises a question. 

Is this the only form of cheating that is being coached in NZ? 

It stands to reason that if there is clear evidence of cheating and unsporting practices(above) being carried out by kiwi teams and that there is speculation supported by video footage of yet further unfair and unsporting tactics being utilised, then the chances are that it is happening.

Hot air you say?

Smoke, I say. Billowing smoke from a ranging inferno.

It's going to catch up with you guys. It always does. 

Cloudy notice how in their "unbiased analysis" they dont mention anything but NZ ? Nothing about that grub kepu getting away with THREE high shots in the RWC final.Not a mention of both refs in the second and third BIL tests squaring up for the humiliation their team suffered at the hands of the ABs in 2015.One wonders how loud the whining would be if in the deciding minute of a BIL series a player was called back after the OPPOSITION infringed [ matters not if its a penalty or scrum ] as ALB was when in the clear and heading for the try line .And then the other french arsehole on the side lines tells his  buddy to "Just do as we discussed earlier " and instead of a kickable penalty its suddenly a scrum.One wonders ,or like the last time back in the mists of time when the boks were gifted a penalty at the behest of the saffa TV crew .

Plum expects us to just agree with whatever shit he pulls outta his arse ,well fuck that for a laugh .And not one of these squeezers can come up with any reason why refs at the behest of the WRU mob would want [ or need ] to help out the ABS,I guarantee you loaded up with NH gits they would love to see the ABs go down in a heap it would give their sides hope and bigger receipts .

If any bastard on my team were to start whining like you geezers I would drag them off for a smacking.Its just loser shit .