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FORUM / RUGBY /  Rugby's refs are killing it

Rugby's refs are killing it

Started by Beeno116 REPLIES375 VIEWS· 07 Sept 2014, 23:25
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Sept 2014, 23:25
#1
07 Sept 2014, 23:25#1

Ex Gavin Rich of Supersport


Let’s be honest about this. If it were not for the modern rugby scourge of referees taking centre stage by impacting on results with their penchant for dishing out yellow cards for the most innocuous offences, the match against Australia in Perth would not have been the first Springbok defeat of 2014.

Heyneke Meyer’s team benefitted from the liberal use of the carding system when they were in a deep hole in the second test against Wales in Nelspruit in June. Had it not been for Wales being reduced in numbers at critical times, they would probably have scored an historic first win against the Boks on South African soil.

I criticised the system then, so to do so again after the Boks were robbed by Irish referee George Clancy at the Paterson Stadium should not be seen as patriotism. It is just a concern that the carding system, and the way the IRB turn a blind eye to the damage it causes, with the frequency with which the sanctity of having an even 15 against 15 contest is messed with, is a cancer that needs to be addressed now before it does serious damage to the sport’s appeal.

It is a concern that I gather is shared by many coaches, players and other people who work in rugby and who I engage with during my working week. The IRB and the refereeing bosses cannot continue to just glibly ignore those concerns, for the drive to remove the danger of the referee having too much influence on the outcome of a match is not being achieved. It just appears to get worse.

Referees are rugby’s royal game. Bok coach Meyer came out with a quote after the Perth match describing the referee as always being right. He also said that the people listening to him talk would have seen what happened and made up their own minds. That sounds like good sportsmanship and his skipper Jean de Villiers behaved like a true statesman when he congratulated the Aussies afterwards.

Good on them both (WHY good?)), but we also all know that they couldn’t say anything without it hitting them big time in the pocket and, in De Villiers’ case, possibly even leading to suspension. Referees are the only participants in the match day who aren’t allowed to be criticised and who are not expected to present themselves at the media press conferences afterwards to explain their decisions.

Were the referees expected to attend media conferences to undergo the third degree questioning that coaches and captains do, Clancy would not have been the only referee facing some tough probing at the weekend. There wasn’t a card involved this time, mercifully, but referee Rohan Hoffmann was also guilty of a howler in the match between the All Blacks and Pumas in Napier.

As they were down by 12 points at the time, the Argentinians would have been back in the contest with a seven or five point deficit with little over a quarter of the match remaining had Hoffmann not inexplicably ruled a knock-on for a perfectly fair charge down. The Pumas were on their way to a certain try. Even Richie McCaw looked surprised by the decision, it was as if he couldn’t believe his luck.

The point is that Hoffmann’s call, and it really was a diabolical decision, had an impact on that result, though not as much as Clancy had on the Bok game, where the reduction in the number of players on the field for the Boks could not have come at a worse time.

Of course it is not the first time that cards have had a possibly fatal impact on a Bok Rugby Championship campaign. The memory of what Romain Poite did to ruin last year’s big clash between the Boks and All Blacks in Auckland is still fresh in most minds. Afterwards the IRB ruled that Poite had made the wrong call, but the result couldn’t be changed.(It should have been!!)

So are we going to just continue with a system that perpetuates the farce of having the referees hog the headlines and the debates after big matches? A top referee told me recently that the reason his bosses and the law makers are not adopting the logical route of a booking system that will deliver sanction but keep 15 players on the field is because coaches might then abuse it and select players specifically tasked with injuring key opposition players.

That is a flawed argument, for no-one is suggesting that dangerous acts that are intended to injure opposition players should just be booking offences or should just lead to the offending player being sent off but replaced from the bench. Violent and really dangerous play were sending off offences in the old days, before the carding system was introduced, and should remain so.

Was Habana’s tackle a dangerous act intending to injure, or an act of violence? No it wasn’t. Neither are countless other offences, many of them 50/50 calls on the part of the referee, which have a dramatic impact on the flow of a game and also on the spectacle. Removing players who commit cynical fouls is supposed to improve the spectacle, but I can’t see how having one team forced to scramble even more because it is down on numbers can achieve that objective.

The damage limitation mode that teams go into when they are at a disadvantage in player numbers does not improve the game. It does the opposite. And knowing that the referee made it an unfair contest at a critical stage makes it impossible for me to agree with De Villiers that the Wallabies deserved their victory. From where I was sitting, they were gifted it. Just like the Boks were in Nelspruit in June...


How about allowing a captain to appeal vital decisions to a TMO who has final say. It would mean a bent ref would have to in collusion. Makes it more difficult.

What is happening re the review system re refs - is it working.

Something must be done.


BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
07 Sept 2014, 23:44
#2
07 Sept 2014, 23:44#2

...Bean Brain, last week you were advocating for more Red cards being handed out. Make up yr mind mate. Yr back tracking like some flip flopping politician.

But basically mate  the Irish refs don't like you, the French refs don't like you, Kiwi refs like Steve Walsh apparently the only ones that actually like Seth Africans ...second thoughts I think Walsh is an Australian...

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Sept 2014, 00:03
#3
08 Sept 2014, 00:03#3
 Brycy red cards for cynical wee abs. None for everyone else. This would help get the rugby stats back to where they shoudl be in relation to wee abs.
Lets get the record right. At the moment its fictitious.
Are you with brycy?
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
08 Sept 2014, 00:28
#4
08 Sept 2014, 00:28#4
 Bean Brain , I get it you being handicapped ....but what difference did carding the Kiwis make at Ellis Park when we kicked yr yarpy butt...and with only 13 men...?
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
08 Sept 2014, 02:19
#5
08 Sept 2014, 02:19#5
 My issue with the ref errors is we will never know what may have happened. Maybe the Wallabies would have still scored and maybe the Argie try would have changed the complexion of the match. To have these doubts due to bad and very avoidable decisions is very disapointing and a blight on the game. It seems to be mandatory to have at least one clanger per test these days. Surely the TMO can be wired in and help out when there is an obvious error. Would be good if on Monday morning people were talking about how amazing Falou's offload was instead of match affecting poor decisions.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
08 Sept 2014, 04:20
#6
08 Sept 2014, 04:20#6
The Ref takes advice from the TMO but still has ultimate control over the decision making process. They often ask for referral as the image will be transferred onto the stadium screen so they can get a look themselves at an incident they were unsighted for or they just want a second look. 
They never have to do as the TMO advises though. They are just there to offer an opinion    
RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
08 Sept 2014, 07:15
#7
08 Sept 2014, 07:15#7

Cloudy your very outspoken on the game involving Australia what about the treatment dealt out by the ref vs the poor ol argies...?


That was way worse than Clancy's effort - a no try on a charge down??? Imagine this happen to the ABs... the whole country would whinge so much they'd sink into the ocean and even more of you would be coming over here...


Bottom line as Claydog nailed it - gotta give TMO ultimate call - he can watch the plays from different level and power to overrule bad decisions that the on ground ref makes...


If you really want to pick at the refs performance on Sunday - I'd say the Argies copped the rawest deal out of any one... A DISALLOWED TRY OF legitimate play....???? C'mon... I mean ABs I know you're all about winning no matter how much you bend the rules but its the argies.... seriously....


 

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
08 Sept 2014, 10:14
#8
08 Sept 2014, 10:14#8

hmmm OK  I guess it was me.... judging by the sounds of it you don't even know what you're talking about... how should other people....??


 pointless talking technical stuff with kiwi chicks (they already know everything anyway) ... you just proved that...

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
08 Sept 2014, 10:31
#9
08 Sept 2014, 10:31#9
 
Bottom line is that the Seth Africans benefited against the Welsh because of some dubious calls. We needed two penalty tries and the ref to reduce the Welsh to 13 men for us to win the match. Not much was said about that, was there?

The useless Morne can't find touch and a try's scored because of it. What do we do ... we blame the ref for our loss.

Pathetic!!

I call on all Seth Africans ... grow a friggin pair will ya!!

Oh and by the way ... well played Wallabies. 



CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
08 Sept 2014, 11:41
#10
08 Sept 2014, 11:41#10
 Cheers Clean Cut, good attitude.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
08 Sept 2014, 11:42
#11
08 Sept 2014, 11:42#11
I also recall much back slapping of the Welsh when they benefitted from the same awful Reffing decisions against England to deny us the Grand Slam. Mr Walsh was quietly stood down for a bit, so we are told, after those blunders....but we lost something very important and players lost the chance of a Lions Tour because if it ( although we all know he was never going to pick them in all likelihood. Gave him an excuse, didn't it ??? ) 

The point is, it happens sometimes no matter how well you play. In this instance, SA should still have won but for their own errors. And the players and game plan are at fault, aren't they ? To blame a Reffing decision keeps detracting, cleverly, from that. 
The subtle art of misdirection !!!  
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
08 Sept 2014, 11:44
#12
08 Sept 2014, 11:44#12
 Brycy I see Beanhead is having a hard time (as usual) responding to your queries 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Sept 2014, 13:14
#13
08 Sept 2014, 13:14#13

Every team in every sport knows the ref can make a mistake and you can lose the game based on a bad call.

 

They also know that you have to reduce the chances of this happening so you have to get a decent lead if at all possible. The boks were the better team and they were capable of taking the ref out of the equation but they chose to sit on the lead. We all know the Wobblies backs can break open a defense at any time so the Boks lost a game they should have won. 

 

Now there is the bleating about the ref poor "consolation" for bad judgement. Ref was wrong but your team messed up also.

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
08 Sept 2014, 14:24
#14
08 Sept 2014, 14:24#14
That is true in this instance, Just win.
Most times, it is more than one decision that swings the game.
But sometimes the Ref does favour one team from the off and it makes it very difficult for the other team to get any kind of foothold in the match.It happens for and against our sides, so I am not being biased in any way here, we have all suffered/benefitted at times, I am sure. That is something that shouldn't happen, though. It's a tad inept. 

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
08 Sept 2014, 20:25
#15
08 Sept 2014, 20:25#15
every team gets a game where the refs calls just dont go their way, but it seems that the All Blacks are the only ones who can rise over that adversity.

i guess no one rugby team in the world is as good as the All Blacks (no surprise there), but theres no end in sight for average teams like the Boks,
RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
09 Sept 2014, 12:07
#16
09 Sept 2014, 12:07#16

sas hopefully for the long suffering bok and rest of world fans - this weekend will be the end in sight we seek - if not Suncorp in Oct...


We've recruited the best cheating ref we can find and for the game in briso - don't you guys worry about that...   

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
09 Sept 2014, 19:53
#17
09 Sept 2014, 19:53#17
 The technology is available to all the sporting bodies at this stage so use should be made of it to avoid the game changing reaction errors made by match officials.
From the game last weekend it appears that any tackle made above the bell button by a Green and Gold player was deemed to be high and dangerous.
Those Irish are a different breed......unfortunately to much Irish Whisky appears to dull the brain.
Or is it something that only the Irish suffer from?
— END OF THREAD —

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