FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Rule changes on the cards?

Rule changes on the cards?

Started by Brycy23 REPLIES601 VIEWS· 10 Nov 2014, 11:39
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
10 Nov 2014, 11:39
#1
10 Nov 2014, 11:39#1

...Recently we have seen rule changes experimented with in the Aussie domestic competition and calls by New Zealand to adopt a review system .


...So what rule changes may be seen in the near future ?


New rule changes the Aussies  have adopted domestically..


  Penalty and drop goals now are only worth two points, while conversions have been increased to three in one of several exciting new law variations which ARU chief Bill Pulver hopes will one day be adopted internationally.

 

''The points change was really designed to accentuate the way we want the game played - smart, creative running rugby,'' Pulver said .

''So two points for a penalty goal, a field goal, three for a conversion. In effect, eight for a converted a try.

''So you'd like to think instead of key times in a game people kicking for goal, they'd kick for touch and play on.''

     

  ...Other law variations being trialled during the competition include:

- being able to kick to touch and continue with a lineout if a team is awarded a penalty after halftime or fulltime;

- time limits for scrum formation and kicks at goal;

- and instead of a four-try bonus-point system, the winning team being awarded a bonus point for finishing three or more tries ahead of their opponents.




Rule changes being proposed by NZ...



...All Blacks coach Steve Hansen says the concept of being able to challenge a Test referee has stalled in the offices of the International Rugby Board.


The methodology would be similar to that used in cricket and tennis, whereby the coach or captain of a side could contest a decision and would lose the chance of another challenge if they got it wrong.


Hansen told NZ Newswire on Sunday that he and other leading lights in New Zealand had collaborated three years ago to devise a challenge system that was more in keeping with the spirit of rugby.


Hansen voiced the benefits of introducing such a system after several contentious decisions were made during New Zealand's 24-21 win over England at Twickenham.

 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 12:30
#2
10 Nov 2014, 12:30#2
I'm 100% behind all the changes above, but I'm just not sure about reducing a penalty kick to just 2.

I have long called for drop goals to be reduced to 2 (or even 1) point and all those other suggested changes make sense, the only problem I have is the devaluing of a penalty kick as this could encourage teams to commit more penalties and risk losing 2 points rather than concede a try which could effectively be worth 8 points. They need to look at this balance or else refs must be stricter with yellow cards when there are repeated deliberate offences in the red zone.

I like the suggestion of scoring 3 tries or more than the opposition rather than a set amount of 4 tries for the bonus point. That keeps the bonus point in the balance right up until the final whistle rather than a team just shutting up shop once they've scored the 4th try.

There's one more change I would suggest that isn't on the list above and that is the red card issue. A red card in the 1st minute is so much more damaging for a team than a red card in the 79th minute that it needs addressing. One way around this would be to allow a reserve player to replace the red-carded player after 10 minutes but I know some people don't consider that harsh enough. Something does need to be done however. A red card early in the match means almost certain defeat and we want to keep things competitive without allowing one act of stupidity (or a poor ref decision) to determine the outcome of a match. I say the the red-carded player should go have an early bath and face stiff fines and/or suspensions, but apply the 10 minute sin-bin and allow a replacement on rather than ruin the game.


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
10 Nov 2014, 12:44
#3
10 Nov 2014, 12:44#3
Yes, I don't agree with penalties being two points. That's just going to result in a bunch of rolling mauls anyway if teams kick for touch instead. Hardly the height of entertainment, and it may indeed encourage illegal shenanigans. Scrum formation definitely, either time limited or attempt limited. The bonus point try system is also worth considering.

Red cards are alright as long as it's a serious enough offense. Players know by now what they can and cannot do. If you pick someone up and spear their head into the ground in the first minute, you only have your own stupidity to blame. Tough one though, especially if people paid to see a contest and suddenly it's a mismatch. Losing a first choice player is probably a punishment in itself.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
10 Nov 2014, 12:55
#4
10 Nov 2014, 12:55#4

 The points as they stand has worked for a long time, no need to change it, a well executed drop is a hard thing to do, why diminish it? Penalties are there for a reason, if teams infringe it should cost them pints.


We aren't bloody well playing rugby league. If you want to improve the game simplify the laws and reduce the chance of differing interpretations.


Those that don't like Rugby Union don't have to play it.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 12:58
#5
10 Nov 2014, 12:58#5
Pakie, the point I was making was not about whether a player deserves the red card or what warrants one, the point is that there is too much of a difference between a red card offence in the 1st minute and a red card offence in the 79th minute. They may both be red-card offences but the one costs you the game and the other doesn't mean anything at all.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 13:03
#6
10 Nov 2014, 13:03#6
Biltongbek, do you know how many times the points in rugby have been adjusted? When you say the points as they stand have worked for a long time, do you know exactly how long?

A drop kick may be difficult but who wants to watch a team trying to accumulate points through drop kicks rather than tries? I'd devalue the drop kick to a single point if it was up to me. Other than a tie-breaker in a tight game it has no other value other than some glory-boy flyhalf preventing a try-scoring opportunity.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 13:28
#7
10 Nov 2014, 13:28#7
"Biltongbek, do you know how many times the points in rugby have been adjusted? When you say the points as they stand have worked for a long time, do you know exactly how long?"

Bek, not sure if you're dodging the question or else looking it up. If it's the latter then let me help . . .

Up until approximately 1888, scoring a try had zero value. All a try did was give you the opportunity to "try" to convert it into a goal . . . hence the name "try".

Between approximately 1888 and 1891, a try was worth 1 point.

Between 1891 and 1893, a try was worth 2 points.

After 1891, the value of a penalty kick was changed from 2 to 3 points.

Between 1891 and 1948 a drop kick was worth 4 points.

Between 1893 and 1971 a try was worth 3 points.

After 1948 a drop kick was worth 3 points.

Between 1971 and 1992 a try was worth 4 points.

After 1977 a player could no longer try a place kick for 3 points after taking a mark.

After 1992 a try was worth 5 points.

Mine is not a comprehensive list of the changes in point scoring but those are the ones I'm aware of and it shows that Rugby Union has a long history of changing the value of points scored.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
10 Nov 2014, 13:36
#8
10 Nov 2014, 13:36#8
Yeah, 20 years is a long time, don't you think?  
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 13:44
#9
10 Nov 2014, 13:44#9
"Yeah, 20 years is a long time, don't you think?"

Not at my age, no.

Jokes aside, whether it's a long time or not you cannot dispute that these changes have happened regularly over the years and points will more than likely continue to change in the future.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
10 Nov 2014, 14:00
#10
10 Nov 2014, 14:00#10

Rooinek, too many suggestions are trying to take away from what rugby union is.


It is a unique game with its own complexities and many different ways to skin a cat, if it becomes a hybrid of League I will walk away.


 Every facet of rugby union has its own nuances and the scoreboard as infinite permutations.


It is the only game you can watch where you can join at halftime, read the score board and not know what happened in the first half as there are many different ways you can get to 12, 15, 20 or whatever.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 14:12
#11
10 Nov 2014, 14:12#11
Well Biltongbek, why haven't you walked away before? I've demonstrated that the points values have consistently changed over the years and if you ask me to put up a list of how often the laws themselves have changed then I'll probably run out of space.

The laws pretty much change on an annual basis these days but I'm not sure how that makes Union more like League.

I don't care about L eague nor do I follow it so I wouldn't know if their laws or rules change quite often but I do know that Rugby Union has a long history of changing the value of points and changing the laws. If you are opposed to those changes then perhaps you're better off following League . . . because if history is anything to go by, the laws of Rugby Union will continue to change on a regular basis as the game evolves.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
10 Nov 2014, 14:19
#12
10 Nov 2014, 14:19#12
I haven't walked away before because the game has not yet been diminished, but then it sounds like we have different ideas of what we expect out of rugby  
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 14:35
#13
10 Nov 2014, 14:35#13
Well, put it this way, Bek, I expect the laws of rugby to continue evolving and changing as they have done since the game began. If you don't think that's going to happen then yes, we have different expectations.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
10 Nov 2014, 14:41
#14
10 Nov 2014, 14:41#14
There is a distinct difference in subtle law changes that improves the game whilst retaining the essential core values of rugby vs  changing he laws because some countries want to play netball, I stand for the former and oppose the latter
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Nov 2014, 14:43
#15
10 Nov 2014, 14:43#15
 
As far as I'm concerned if it ain't broke don't fix it.

They should leave the points as they are.

Slotting a drop goal isn't an easy task and when someone manages it they should be rewarded properly.

How many times out of 10 have we seen a successful drop goal? It's a rarity.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
10 Nov 2014, 15:01
#16
10 Nov 2014, 15:01#16
I quite like the suggested changes above, especially the referral system. I have been calling for something along those lines for a while. I think two points is too little for a penalty or drop kick. Leave it at three and increase a try from 5 to 6. It is still possible to win a game from penalties and drop goals, but the incentive to go for the try will be great. 
Rooi, don't knock penalties and drop goals entirely, they have a place in the sport. I can say with some certainty that you were cheering like a schoolgirl when Lambie popped that kick over against NZ at Ellis park. A drop goal or penalty, can still make for exciting rugby. 
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 15:05
#17
10 Nov 2014, 15:05#17
So what if it's hard, Klown? Rubbing your stomach and patting your head simultaneously is also hard, would you like to see points awarded for that? Would you be okay with a backline move suddenly stopping because some little poser decides to try and score points using the rub your stomach and pat your head method of scoring?

If you pay your hard-earned money to go watch some mincing little flyhalf poser spoiling try-scoring opportunities and taking pot shots at goal instead then by all means, why not campaign for them to increase the value of a drop goal if it excites you so much . . . me, I watch rugby because I like to see players running with the ball and trying to score tries.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 15:10
#18
10 Nov 2014, 15:10#18
bluebok, nowhere have a said I have an issue with penalty kicks. I just want them to find the right balance so that the objective remains scoring tries and players are not encouraged to commit more penalties to prevent this.

I don't have particularly strong feelings on the points value of a penalty, I just hate drop kicks. To me the drop kick should be used as a tie-break decider a la Joel Stransky in 1995. That's about the only thing it's good for. Seeing flyhalves trying drop kicks from the opening minutes of a game just annoys me.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Nov 2014, 15:36
#19
10 Nov 2014, 15:36#19
 
Come now Redneck ... even at 3 points a pop we're not seeing these "posers " taking pot shots all day long.

It's a skill. A rugby skill. It has it's place and should be rewarded properly.

Of course I go watch a rugby match to see brilliant tries being scored, however seeing Frans Steyn bang a drop over from within his own half is pretty impressive, don't you think? It certainly stunned me and many others too.

You can't tell me that didn't do it for you. You got value for your buck there.

Yes I know the many flops he attempted irritated me too ... and yes it probably spoiled any running chances they may have had, but it's still part of the game.  

Leave it as it is.

I wonder how many posters suddenly found themselves rubbing their stomachs and patting their heads just to see if they could do it?





RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
10 Nov 2014, 15:45
#20
10 Nov 2014, 15:45#20
Frans Steyn is a bad example if you're trying to convince me, Klown. I can't think of anyone attempting regular drop kicks who had a worse conversion rate than fat Fransie. The twit couldn't even help himself trying several drop kicks in a Barbarians game for goodness sake and he stuffed those attempts up as well.

Fat Fransie only ever seemed to have one thought running through his brain every time he got the ball . . . "let I show everyone how far kan I kick the ball" . . . and after that it was simply a matter of whether he tried to prove it with a punt out of hand or a drop kick.

One of my least favourite players ever.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Nov 2014, 15:58
#21
10 Nov 2014, 15:58#21

 The only rule that spoils the game is the red card rule....eg Bismarck against NZ last year or Warburton at the RWC. If a player gets a second yellow or a red, the team should serve it for 10 minutes and the player should be banned from the game. But another player should be allowed on to make it a fair contest after 10 minutes. As it stands now you are punishing the spectators.

 

The other rule which is broken is the forward pass rule. It is at the whim of the ref, who simply cant judge if hands were "going backwards". The amount of drift varies directly with the length of the pass but can't exceed the speed of the passer. A simple bit of software should be able to calculate and illustrate the drift line for TMO....a nice red line viewers can see would be good. In time refs will adapt to this visually and call it quite accurately at various levels of the game.

 

 

No need to change the scoring.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Nov 2014, 16:16
#22
10 Nov 2014, 16:16#22
I'd be happy with kicks counting less including conversions  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Nov 2014, 16:27
#23
10 Nov 2014, 16:27#23

The game is in perfect balance right now....the scoring changes are stupid even if you agree the principle. Wh y make a conversion 3 points....simply make a try 6 if you want to stress running the ball. Making a conversion worth more than a penalty which on average is a harder kick is so stupid it could only have come from Australia.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Nov 2014, 16:54
#24
10 Nov 2014, 16:54#24
Make kicking less significant.......its a one man skill, rugby is a team game......make conversions and penalties 2 points and a drop 1......leave tries at 5 points  
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news