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FORUM / RUGBY /  RWC2023 is ours to lose....

RWC2023 is ours to lose....

Started by Denny36 REPLIES1,293 VIEWS· 26 Sept 2023, 11:20
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DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2023, 11:20
#1
26 Sept 2023, 11:20#1

the test against Ireland was ours to lose as well. The stumbling block is not the players, the players do not select themselves, the team does not select itself, the team does not decide the gameplan. Rassie is responsible for all of it, he gets the credit when the team wins and rightly so but he also carries the blame when the team loses. At his disposal is a solid pack of forwards and a brilliant backline loaded with talent, skill and speed which starts at 9 and seamlessly flows to 15.


He ought to know he's top 15 by now.....  does he? I doubt it. Combinations and confidence should have been in place by now. On the eve of the quarterfinals he should have had a settled side instead he's still playing musical chairs, he's still experimenting and he still persists with duds like Deon Fourie, Jesse Kreil and the crashball maestro Da Allende???


Starting with the squad....Deon Fourie???......4 Scrummies???.......2 specialist Hookers???.....a Deadend centre pairing...an anorexic lock not suited to the physical demands of the gameplan....an attacking flyhalf with a goal kicking deficiency(more about this later) and a loose trio who leave a lot to be desired.


Starting with the much maligned Libbok...Rassie knew about his kicking woes from way back but decided against employing a kicking coach.....you would think that once he'd decided on Libbok as his starting specialist flyhalf he'd employ the kicking coach Libbok relies on for his confidence. Libbo k in his own words says that he gains a lot of confidence from his coach and that his only assistance is via phone in between games.


Deon Fourie, a Rassie tjommie is too old and doesn't belong on the world stage.

Marx and Vermeulen were a foil for a very ordinary loose trio, Kolisi is not a ball carrier, neither is Mostert and neither is Kwagga. Kleyn has to be the reserve Lock and Van Staden has to be in the starting lineup. The starting lock pairing should be Snyman and Etzebeth. The bomb squad is not working, our much hyped physicality is being matched and so is that other favourite the rolling maul. The opposition are aware of the Bok gameplan and plan accordingly and in so doing render our two main attacking options toothless. The absence of Marx makes Mostert a much bigger liability.


The backline......Da Allende and Kreil are not going to buy you a try.....we know that....and there's more chance in AE and CM or AE and Willemse. And whatever CM lacks in defence he makes up in bucket loads with skill, speed and flair. And if you agree that there's not a lot of difference between the top three teams I would argue that our blokes do whatever the opposition does but we do it faster. Speed will always win.


Scroll back to the NZ test as proof of who was selected and what happened, the only reason it won't happen again is because Rassie is stuck in the laager and is not qualified to coach a far better team than the 2019 team.





MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
26 Sept 2023, 12:09
#2
26 Sept 2023, 12:09#2
Our centre pairing of AE and CM or Willemse , can produce more Success than DA and JK….but does Rassie see it that way? Doesn’t look like it….Deon is there on his last crusade and answers the tjommie Question…Deon does play his heart out, but it would have been better to have a. Grobbelaar there instead….Manie is a sensational player, but his pole kicking does need serious attention and it makes obvious sense to have a Kicking coach there for him. I think the only reason why he isn’t there, is because Rassie knew from the beginning that Pollie will be there and Manie was just a Bridge solution for the Pool Games….I am a fan of Mostert but would rather Start a RG or Kleyn and Mostert of the Bench…when it comes to stronger loosies you have to ask, why was a player like Roos and Elrigh louw ommited from the Squad? A clear pattern of Applied Favourtism is seen here, tjommie first over Talent. And Yes Tassies style of coaching does limit him in who he can coach.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
26 Sept 2023, 12:19
#3
26 Sept 2023, 12:19#3
We go back 5 years and there but a few protesting Jessie and DDA... Today their supporters are in the minimum. I count 3 on this site. Let's hope Sauron has a final card up his sleeve.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2023, 12:19
#4
26 Sept 2023, 12:19#4

I don't get Mostert fitting into Rassie's physical onslaught ....is he a ball carrier?......a Fetcher?....and ag puleeeeze don't bother me with stats.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2023, 12:23
#5
26 Sept 2023, 12:23#5

why was a  player like Roos and Elrigh louw ommited

Ja well poor Roos was thrown under a bus in that soup and porridge mix of a team who played Wales.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Sept 2023, 12:27
#6
26 Sept 2023, 12:27#6

Hahahahahaha what a hilarious post from dense Denise. This hatter actually thinks he knows more about rugby than Rassie.

He imagines AE is a twinkle toe center compared to Allende who was widely praised for his efforts against Ireland. 

I like what I see of Moodie and would have played him before Arendse on the wing. I have some doubts if young Moodie would have held up at center in this match. Willemse at 13vwax my choice. Against that 8 hear that Kriel is the defensive general of the backline. So again it's not all quite so cut and dried. 

Dense completely ignores the fact the Bok backline shut down a very skilled Irish backline. 

He knows darn well we could very easily have won the test, and indeed should have, but takes the bonus point loss as an opportunity to have a go at Rassie. What a cheap shot. And no the anti Rassie brigade led by the very frot Mozzzzz couldn't even give Rassie credit for WINNING in Japan! 

Deon Fourie is too old but Vermeulen is not. 

Pollard was not ready to play. 

Rassie selected 2 hookets and has 2 guys who can play hooker. The very mobile Fourie played many years at hooker and of course is also a flank. I have said for years he is a brilliant rugby player and but for Rassie would never have played for the Boks. 

The team Rassie selected was good enough to win. Now fortified by the loss Dense thinks he has all the answers. Hahahahahahaha. 

Another thing, playing your front line players every match has its drawbacks. It increases the risk of injury, leads to fatigue over a long tournament and means your backups are badly underdone. 

Dense has a go at Mostert but says zip about the very poor Orie who was a quota pick. 

I have no doubt Rassie will continue tweak the side as the opposition changes, the state of a player etc and rightly so. 

In my opinion the Irish pack is significantly better than the pack we played in the NZ match. Add to that the fact that Marx, the best and most physical hooker in the World, didn't play. This gave our backs much better front foot ball.l against the Kiwis. Further I think the Irish defence was more ORGANISED and their three fast looses wete everywhere. Hence people talking about Kwagga as an antidote. 

The four scrumhalf picked needs a closer look. Reinach and Williams can play wing. Faf gave a very impressive display at fly half. Rassie's backline is incredibly versatile. A fit Pollard adds to that. Am not being available was also a significant blow as was the Lood injury. 

So what do we have at the end of the day. A few halfwits trying to savage the coach and team for a very close and unfortunate loss to Ireland the number 1 ranked team in the World and on a 15 match winning streak. 

Ours was a loss with honour. We were not outclassed by any means and did enough to win. The ref made a number of blunders particularly in the closing phases of the game and in adjudicating the scrums. These errors were enough to cost us the match. Penalties shaved the posts and we had a number of try scoring opportunities which on another day we would have taken. 

So scandalous has been the reaction of emotionally immature cry babies that Hakwa had to comment on this Hahahahaha. Talk about making a spectacle of yourself! 

So I appeal to all the oaks here to man up. Doubtless if we go on the win the cup all the cry babies will deny they had anything but good to say about Rassie. All except the frot Mozzzz and the even fritter Deus. 

They will haul out their tired tropes about how poor the opposition were, our easy route to the final ( what a laugh)   and how lucky we were. I can't even imagine what they will come up with!!! 




DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
26 Sept 2023, 13:05
#7
26 Sept 2023, 13:05#7

Dense completely ignores the fact the Bok backline shut down a very skilled Irish backline. 

The Bok defence was ragged, and made to look very ordinary. In the competition, we don't have anyone in the top list of tacklers. Let that sink in. Our defence is weak. The Irish looked much better. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Sept 2023, 13:27
#8
26 Sept 2023, 13:27#8
Actually the Hansen try was a bit of a shambles. Willemse was posted out opposite Hansen and then when Sexton made his run for the line, he came in to defend….nobody posted back out. 
When the rush defence is dominant it looks impregnable. But when it’s teased a bit, somebody needs to call the shots….if not, gaps appear out wide.


DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
26 Sept 2023, 13:33
#9
26 Sept 2023, 13:33#9

The Boks have the outside rush up hard, but it's not very tight, and they don't read very well. There were several times when the Irish feigned a pass, and held a tick, and the rush flew by and there was space in behind. The Boks also struggled with the Irish slipping a short ball on or just before contact from a direct runner. It's a very inflexible defence, and when they are not tackling in numbers on solitary runners, they really are heavily exposed physically. The Bok defence is soft, and very passive. In a better era, it would be more severely exposed. This is the kind of defence that traditional Wallaby sides manipulated at will.  

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
26 Sept 2023, 14:22
#10
26 Sept 2023, 14:22#10
“ and the rush flew by and there was space in behind. “ - Jesse Kriel likes doing that.
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
26 Sept 2023, 14:26
#11
26 Sept 2023, 14:26#11

It's the Bok model. The exterior line rushes, and they don't read. It's the model the coaching team have installed since the first All Black test. Players who never did this are doing it, those that did are even worse than before (like Kolisi and Steph). 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
26 Sept 2023, 15:55
#12
26 Sept 2023, 15:55#12

I think the boks missed Vermeulen. He normally Marshals the defence. But I honestly can’t tell if Wiese is better than Vermeulen. Both are equally physical carriers. Roos would have been awesome, but Rassie likes his forwards to bash it over. Imagine Roos playing for Ireland, now devastating he would be. 

But selecting 4 open siders and 4 scrum-halves is a joke. Take to flanks and swap for a proper hooker. Take on scrum half and pick a proper 10 or backline player that can kick. There are 3 players in this team we don’t need. 

Now we just hope Van Staden can be the next Marx. Well, he looked good in the scrum and very good player on the ground, but why did Jake not pick him there then. Because Jake had Grobbler, Bismark and Jan Hendrik Wessels. I think the bulls is the team to watch this season

But also Bomb squad with 4 light players coming on. It wasn’t the same as the game against Nee Zealand. They knew they fucked up. So now the using the bench to cover themselves. Kolisi is not match fit and have never played 80 min. He is the captain and he can’t play 80 min. So now you have pick his replacement because you know he won’t last the match. Bongi, Ox, Malherbe, Wiese, Vermeulen are all players that can’t play past 40 min. These guys don’t have the stamina or smarts to last a whole game 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,224 posts
26 Sept 2023, 16:05
#13
26 Sept 2023, 16:05#13
I believe the team that wins the World Cup will be the one that can maintain the highest level of consistency.
Ireland has won 16 games in a row, are ranked 1st in the world rankings and just beat the 2nd-ranked team. At this stage, Ireland must be considered the favourites.

France's struggles are primarily due to injuries; otherwise, I believe they would be the favourites

France, the Boks, or the All Blacks could beat Ireland with a good performance on the day. However, these other three teams may struggle to consistently deliver strong performances in every test match- especially now that there are a few teams playing very well. 

The Boks have demonstrated that on a bad day, when they struggle to convert possession into points on the attack, they can be defeated." A goal kicker would have improved the situation, but the ruck and the backs creating/finishing was poor. 
Willie Leroux is a must for at least being on the bench as an impact bomb squad player. When the Boks struggle to convert possession and territory in the 22 into points, he is essential. 
We can never go with a 7/1 split again. 
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
26 Sept 2023, 16:46
#14
26 Sept 2023, 16:46#14

The rankings don't quite convey where the Boks are. It was a below average Irish showing, but still, when they opened up a little, we simply couldn't keep up. New Zealand, France, Ireland all have an extra gear we don't possess. We are going to have to tighten up, and do what we do best. Lineout needs to be a lot better, and we need to milk penalties, keep the ball high up field, and try to hit on transitions. Get a bit more muscle on the line, and allow Kwagga to disrupt for most of the game. 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
26 Sept 2023, 17:40
#15
26 Sept 2023, 17:40#15

Agree Dense, this RWC is ours to lose. Such a good pool of players to pick from and so many bad decisions but e ven with Rassies's "look for me I are such a genius" picks, we can still win this thing.

Evan Roos would have added a lot to this team and the 4 scrumhalves instead of an additional flyhalf or hooker is just plain stupid Then he compunds it by picking a 7-1 bench and tries to control every aspect of the game with his stupid lights (and gets all the key decisions wrong). 

I get so frustrated with our overrated and egotistical coach but I think we can still win this despite him.

Go Bokke!

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
26 Sept 2023, 17:51
#16
26 Sept 2023, 17:51#16
Roos, Wiese, Willemse, Moodie and Williams. Those are the five names I wanna see in Bok games for the next 8 years after this WC. Two damn solid forwards and three superstar backs to build your pack and backs around. So sad, it's feels like RG is already about to retire and we've just begun to see him regularly for the Boks. He's 29 already :(
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
26 Sept 2023, 17:55
#17
26 Sept 2023, 17:55#17

ButtPlug, I think it's Wiese OR Roos rather than Wiese AND Roos but I agree with the others.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2023, 19:26
#18
26 Sept 2023, 19:26#18
RG is 28 Roos at 8 would have added so much more
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:14
#19
26 Sept 2023, 20:14#19
Nah Rooi, Wiese at 8 and Roos on the side of the scrum. I know, I know...playing players out of position. Don't care.
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:15
#20
26 Sept 2023, 20:15#20

Roos is another reputation without substance. He has a heck of a lot to prove. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:19
#21
26 Sept 2023, 20:19#21
Doos coming from you that’s one hell of an endorsement Kwagga is our most valuable player bwaahaaaaa
BO
Boorad1Club Pro106 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:20
#22
26 Sept 2023, 20:20#22

I believe the team that wins the World Cup will be the one that can maintain the highest level of consistency.

I think the World cup will be decided by injuries and the lucky bounce of the ball.  There is nothing between the Ireland, France and SA.  The AB are poor this year but can can win a one off against one of the top three but I don't think they are good enough to win against two.  

I continually see the lamenting of missing the 11 points because of not having a kicker.  We would  have won blah blah blah.   You got a try as a result of hitting the post so missing that one was not too bad...   The two inside our half way....  yeah they were guaranteed by a good kicker.... Not!!!!  The only reason he took those speculative kicks was because they were not breaking the line and didn't trust themselves. 

So you missed one penalty wow.  That didn't decide the game!!!

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:21
#23
26 Sept 2023, 20:21#23

French are saying Dupont will play in the quarter finals. Sorry SA, that's where you book your flights home. Not even you lot can stand against the 2nd coming of Jesus!

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:23
#24
26 Sept 2023, 20:23#24

I think the World cup will be decided by injuries and the lucky bounce of the ball.  There is nothing between the Ireland, France and SA.

As good as they are, their lucky Munster is not allowed compete in the world cup!

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:23
#25
26 Sept 2023, 20:23#25

He’s having a special mask created so he can play….

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:23
#26
26 Sept 2023, 20:23#26

He’s having a special mask created so he can play….

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:44
#27
26 Sept 2023, 20:44#27

The Man in the Iron Mask?

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:44
#28
26 Sept 2023, 20:44#28

"French are saying Dupont will play in the quarter finals. Sorry SA, that's where you book your flights home. Not even you lot can stand against the 2nd coming of Jesus!"

walking on water or turning water to wine won't be enough...they'll need a bit "Hulk SMASH!!!" and he's already crocked...I think it's a mistake to play him...what's the rule on replacing a player starting the match with an injury?

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
26 Sept 2023, 20:46
#29
26 Sept 2023, 20:46#29

The man in the less than 5 mm thick plastic mask, I believe  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Sept 2023, 21:24
#30
26 Sept 2023, 21:24#30

When you win the WC with a team in their prime and great talent coming up, you play for the history books. You build on existing strengths and improve areas you don’t excel. The backline for example. You find a great running forward who offloads. You use games against lesser team to build depth.


You don’t start by giving up the coaching job and leaving a confused leadership position….by using Covid as an excuse to not compete….by persisting with players who simply aren’t producing….by attacking the officials… by selecting a crazy squad for the WC and making it nuttier when you lose your hooker.


It’s all about this man ….the coaches are in green, he is in black….a total charlatan. It’s damn frustrating one wants to be all in for the Boks, but the moment they succeed he jumps in front of the cameras and waves of nausea sweep over you.

The tragic thing is, when he goes we get Stick and a 32 year old Bok team where he can change every position.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2023, 21:55
#31
26 Sept 2023, 21:55#31
So Moz what will you say if Rassie guides us to another WC victory?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Sept 2023, 22:31
#32
26 Sept 2023, 22:31#32
You’re saying Eddie the inept wasn’t the architect of our last one?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2023, 22:45
#33
26 Sept 2023, 22:45#33
This has nothing to do with Eddie what will you say if Rassie wins this for us?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Sept 2023, 23:08
#34
26 Sept 2023, 23:08#34
I’ll probably admit I was wrong…..what will you say if we go out in the Quarters?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Sept 2023, 23:29
#35
26 Sept 2023, 23:29#35
I’d say we lost to a pretty handy French side and that the loss of Marx and Am deprived us of breakdown pressure and silkiness and brains in the midfield and that Rassie is a clueless prick for not starting RG :)
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Sept 2023, 00:02
#36
27 Sept 2023, 00:02#36

Fair enough.

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
27 Sept 2023, 05:17
#37
27 Sept 2023, 05:17#37

Already with the excuses. Where was the Marx breakdown pressure when he played this year? That was debunked completely. Am, he hasn't been near his best for a while now. 

— END OF THREAD —

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