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SA just needs to play smarter

Started by Beeno125 REPLIES1,612 VIEWS· 06 Aug 2018, 09:25
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Aug 2018, 09:25
#1
06 Aug 2018, 09:25#1

i

Although there were 19 points in it on the scoreboard when the hooter sounded for the final time in the 2018 edition of Vodacom Super Rugby, the Lions defeat was not an ending that left South African rugby with confidence in tatters and feeling that there was no hope.

Springbok coach Rassie Erasmus will name his squad from the training camp in Stellenbosch on Monday and he will do so in the knowledge that while the country struggled overall in the southern hemisphere regional competition, he does have the raw material to continue the upward performance graph that was started in the series win over England.

We do need to be realistic though. That the Crusaders were able to win 35-18 in a match where they were mostly dominated in the battle for possession and territory points to a chasm that still exists between South Africa and New Zealand in key areas.

There have been inroads made over the past two seasons into that gap in skill-set. The drive to up-skill South African players was not going to meet with success overnight. But the process that was started with the decisions that were made and strategies agreed on at the Allister Coetzee inspired national coaching Indaba in Cape Town in October 2016 is underway, though some intelligence from the administrators in some of the franchises might be necessary for that to continue to the point where it bears fruit.


If the Bulls, who may not have achieved better results this year in terms of numbers in the wins and losses column but who have dramatically improved their attacking play and up-skilled overall, think they can do without John Mitchell it would be a disappointing attitude and one that would show a lack of understanding of the process that has been started. (AS BEENO attempted to explain to confused oaks!)

You just have to look at the additions to the all-round games of some of the Bulls’ Boks, Jesse Kriel (Noted by Beeno!) in particular but newcomer R G Snyman is also an excellent example, to spotlight the progress that is being made in Pretoria. It is nonsense to suggest that the Bulls have the players to justify better results than have been achieved to now and that Mitchell’s plea to the Bulls administration for money to build a squad that will have proper back-up in each position is without merit.

The Bulls used to have a lot of depth. But over a period of a few years there has been a steady stream of talent out of Pretoria and when the injuries hit this year the Bulls were hurt more than they would have been in the past.

What the Bulls did do this year though was show flashes of promise of what could be achieved under Mitchell, and Erasmus, in his own quest to modernise South African rugby, will be a benefactor if it is allowed to continue.

But to suggest the gap that New Zealand enjoy because of the years of attention to core-skills while South African coaches neglected this key element is closed is far from the truth. It was highlighted by where the Crusaders got it right in the Christchurch final.

Make no mistake, the Lions would not have been helped by the travel they had to do to get to the decider, and given that massive disadvantage, they did make a good fist of it. What should please Erasmus is that the Lions showed against the Crusaders forward juggernaut that this country does have the resources to make an impression against even the best New Zealand packs.

We actually should know that already, as the Bok pack that played under Erasmus’ predecessor Coetzee nearly beat the All Blacks on their own in Cape Town last October (As noted by BEENO!). What was lacking was the skill and finesse plus, perhaps most importantly, the smartness that set the All Blacks apart and which enabled them to win on a day when they were physically dominated.

Coetzee’s last match as Bok coach probably underlined the weakness of his two year reign - the Bok forwards completely dominated Wales in Cardiff, and yet somehow lost the game. Or maybe the word ‘somehow’ is misplaced, for we do know what happened there. The Boks were just out-coached, with Warren Gatland’s tactics, his initial kick attack thrust, appearing to surprise the visitors.

The Lions weren’t surprised by the Crusaders to the same extent that the Boks were that day but they should have been quicker to pick up that the hosts had done their homework on their maul. Although the Lions dominated the early minutes in terms of possession and territory, it was the Crusaders who made the big statement by driving back the Lions at the attacking lineouts.

Further evidence of the way the Crusaders coaching staff had pinpointed the Lions’ strengths and devised ways to counter them was the way that Malcom Marx and Kwagga Smith’ ball winning abilities on the ground were completely negated.

There was another big factor that worked in the favour of Crusaders. Like the Lions they had a flyhalf who is at best No 2 in the pivot pecking order in his national squad. Before the game All Black coach Steve Hansen had stated that Richie Mo’unga’s good form was to be expected when playing behind what he called “the Rolls Royce pack”.

The message there was that Mo’unga had to show what he could do on a day when the Crusaders might not attain their usual forward dominance. The final provided that opportunity, and Mo’unga, with hardly any ball to play with, excelled with his game management.

Conversely Lions flyhalf Elton Jantjies, on a day when he could not use the excuse that he didn’t have a forward platform to play off, struggled to impose himself. He tried to play at the gain-line early on but lacked the conviction needed and then when the heat was on he was dropping back into the pocket.

Christchurch was an opportunity for Jantjies to change the direction his reputation and his career appears to be heading that he did not take. Mo’unga took his chance, and while it is hard to see him displacing Beauden Barrett in the All Black starting team, Hansen can feel confident he has a man who knows how to direct play ready to take over should the Hurricanes man be injured.

Erasmus doesn’t have that luxury. The players beneath Handre Pollard are either untried or lack consistency and the necessary authority and influence in the really big games.(How so what the heck is so wrong with Robert Du Preez. Willemse in a year or two will be just fine)

What he does have though is depth at forward that would be the envy of most other rugby nations. That’s a start and he’s a good enough coach to slip everything else into place in time.


AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
06 Aug 2018, 12:33
#2
06 Aug 2018, 12:33#2

The Saders pack easily dealt with the Lions. That's a concern. I don't see where the Boks have one competitive advantage over New Zealand. Aside from Marx and Pollard, they better everything we have at hand. To make matters worse, although England lost the series, they actually performed much better. There were many things in that series which concerned me greatly. If Rassie expects to take that to the Rugby Championship, he can forget it. We may as well have Coetzee at the helm. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
06 Aug 2018, 17:50
#3
06 Aug 2018, 17:50#3

Ebe n at his best and Wilco....maybe Willie....and I'll take an in form Duane ahead of Read any day...can't stand that wanker.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
06 Aug 2018, 18:10
#4
06 Aug 2018, 18:10#4

Will Duane be fit? He is the best in the world, if he is fit. Big if. Eben is good, not great. I think New Zealand's locks are more effective. Willie is one of the few South Africans who can draw and pass. His kicking is awful though, at least when we really need a reliable boot to defuse aerial pressure. He is better at chips than clearing his lines. Even those chips can go awry. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
06 Aug 2018, 19:10
#5
06 Aug 2018, 19:10#5

One of Rassie's main goals should be to get Duane to the RWC in the best form of his life...fit and absolutely injury free...same with Eben and Marx, maybe a few others too...and doing that by giving them enough game time to reach top form and match fitness.  Tough ask. Meyer tried and over played some of his "must" players. They got injured and the backups were under coo ked...not enough game time. I think Jake got the mix just right in 2007.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Aug 2018, 19:29
#6
06 Aug 2018, 19:29#6

Oh nonsense ... Duane is a quality 8th man but claiming he's the best in the world is ridiculous.

What the hell are you smoking?

Pollard is as average as they come. By no means can he compete with the likes of Mo'unga or even Barrett.

Eben is in a league of his own when fit and can match the best in the business.

If we select properly we can easily claim to have the best tight 5 in rugby today.

We fall apart with our back row. No fetcher, no enforcer at 7 and an 8th man that picks and chooses the matches he wants to be a part of.

Duane tucked his tail and ran the moment he thought of facing the All Blacks. Facing a poor English side was more up his alley. The intensity of the kiwis was a little too much for him to bear.

Besides ... we all saw how exhausted he was in the last test against the Poms. His staying power is not what it use to be. It's called getting older.

Our backline is an absolute mess. No decent 10 ... no midfield ... and a full back that's too erratic to depend upon ... prone to moments of madness.

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
06 Aug 2018, 20:20
#7
06 Aug 2018, 20:20#7

Horse Shyte CC...when fully fit, Duane is on par with the best 8 in the world, but he always struggled with fitness, so I think his stint in Japan and unavailability for the Boks in the RC have more to do with managing his workload than him picking his availability or being afraid of the ABs.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Aug 2018, 20:43
#8
06 Aug 2018, 20:43#8
Vermeulen was terrific through the whole Pom series...even in the third test, where our whole pack took a step back. Those who were in the anti Vermeulen camp like Tokkie seized on the third test to save their blushes.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
06 Aug 2018, 21:06
#9
06 Aug 2018, 21:06#9

Duane when fit is a game changer. He is the kind of payer, like Albert's was, who can generate so much momentum that he increases then effectiveness of the rest of the team. There aren't many players anywjere that can do that.

Pollard is world class. I'd say he stands as our best 10 and 12. A player who can take on and overcome the All Blacks. A tremendous talent. 

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
07 Aug 2018, 02:12
#10
07 Aug 2018, 02:12#10

So why is Read a wanker ? For being good at his job ? Has he said something to offend ?

Or is it the constant winning that grates ? Seems a pretty decent fella to me.

Being fit is part of the game ,if you cant get it together to do so then that detracts rom anything else you may have going.N ot much use if your blown out after 20 minutes.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
07 Aug 2018, 11:42
#11
07 Aug 2018, 11:42#11

Well Draad ... you've just confirmed what I said about Duane.

Thanks!!

Tell you what ... I'll copy and paste my post again so you can read it a second time.

Oh nonsense ... Duane is a quality 8th man but claiming he's the best in the world is ridiculous.

Duane tucked his tail and ran the moment he thought of facing the All Blacks. Facing a poor English side was more up his alley. The intensity of the kiwis was a little too much for him to bear.

Besides ... we all saw how exhausted he was in the last test against the Poms. His staying power is not what it use to be. It's called getting older.

Glad to help out!!


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Aug 2018, 12:27
#12
07 Aug 2018, 12:27#12

wee cc is an amusing chum,p. This halfwit thinks Duane runs away from the wee abs! Hahhahahahahahaha how silly can you get. Suppose the chump would argue bent Read is more physical that Duane.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
07 Aug 2018, 12:29
#13
07 Aug 2018, 12:29#13

Two totally different types of players, O Righteous One.

Both class acts ... except Read has the gas to go the whole 80.


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Aug 2018, 12:43
#14
07 Aug 2018, 12:43#14

Bent Read doesn't do 25% of the hard work Duane does in the tight loose. Obviously bent Reads play on the wing impresses you cc

There is only one Righteous One cc - but you would only know that if you knew the scriptures! No more blasphemy please cc, up your game etc.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
07 Aug 2018, 13:05
#15
07 Aug 2018, 13:05#15

It's easy when you're opponents are as poor as the Poms.

I remember how you were all singing Kolisi's praises when he had a few solid tests against the hapless French. He was made out to be this rugby god.

A totally difference kettle of fish when your opponents are the dominant force on the planet.

We won't ever know now, will we? ... seeing as Duane scurried off to the far east as quickly as his tired old legs could carry him.    

I know the scriptures relatively well ... the difference between us is that I don't strutt my stuff pretending that I'm the only one around these parts that's Heaven bound.

My game is just fine O Righteous One ... perhaps you need to look at yours.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Aug 2018, 13:36
#16
07 Aug 2018, 13:36#16

CC 

I read BS galore insofar as your postings are concerned.   The Crusader forwards did not deal with the Lions forwards easily, since the Lions had 70% ball possession during the match.   

Alberts ball carries were totally inadequate and there was zero forward momentum in the case of 90%  of his carries - if there was he would not show an average of 2,2 meters per carry on test level and 1,8 meters in Super Rugby.   Probably the worst ball carrying loosie who ever played for the Springboks.   He was too clumsy to  cause forward momentum.

There is a serious problem with Vermeulen - he was top class in two tests and at the end of the second test he complained publicly about aches and pains.   In the third test he became a number on the team sheet and was really not up to standard.

Now he decided not to play in the RC tests and went off to play rugby in Japan instead.   They only play once every 14 days and fact is he would be even more unfit than he was  after his return from France.   Best in the world he was before his 2015 injury - age and injuries caught up with him and he is at best a player who is finding it increasingly hard to perform on the level he achieved in the past.   Be it as it may - a test player cannot pick and choose when he want to play in tests and when he would not.  Time to get over that kind of thing.

         

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Aug 2018, 13:50
#17
07 Aug 2018, 13:50#17

Mozart

Dream on about Vermeulen  being "terrific"  in the third test against England.  He was veruy average at best.

As to managing him as a player to keep him fresh - the answer really is to let a player play ion Japan is crap as a management tool.   It is rather allowing players to be unfit and was the case with all players selected for the Springboks.   They came back unfit and then get injured before the start of Super Rugby in account of unfitness.   

In tests they played one good game and if they have another test the next week - they are not 50% of what they performed like in the first test.    That was why Du Preez for instance picked and chose  what tests he would play in and there was never more than two in a row, before the RC in 2015.   In that series he played the Meyer game passing the ball to the forwards and forgot about the backline.   His kicking was goo d enough - the rest of his contribution was average to questionable .                

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Aug 2018, 13:51
#18
07 Aug 2018, 13:51#18

Ou maaaaikie surely you know Vermuelen was car r ying an injury come that third test.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
07 Aug 2018, 14:00
#19
07 Aug 2018, 14:00#19

Again, the tale of forward dominance. It does not improve in SA rugby, the addiction to tales is mandatory. Can not do without it.


SA forwards were heavily dominated during the game. They got their options limited to anything the NZ side wanted to. That is why the NZ defence was proper, because they got the SA side to involve in predictable moves that could not shake the NZ side off their balance.

The SA side existed where the NZ side decided the SA side would exist. Nowhere else.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
07 Aug 2018, 14:14
#20
07 Aug 2018, 14:14#20

The remark on the fly halves respective games is another telling tale. SA rugby feed an addiction to tales.


The comment about a supposed performance requirement difference is nonsense.

The first priority of the game was to play to win it and both players were subjected to it. It has nothing to do international squad calls. The article even managed to push the nonsense up to admitting that the NZ player performance will not gain him a position in the international NZ side.

The NZ player had to perform well because a good performance would earn him a start with the NZ squad even though a good performance will not earn him that spot. Only in SA.


The difference in performance has a simple root: The NZ player evolved in a clean environment, in a side that shaped the  game as they intended to. The SA player played in a side that was one step from crumbling, do not know how to attack and was unable to impose  unwanted stuff by the NZ side.

One plays in a cohesive unit following a gameplay. The other had to work miracles, do fireworks to compensate SA rugby shortcomings.

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
07 Aug 2018, 15:20
#21
07 Aug 2018, 15:20#21

Most of you were too young to remember the Willie John McBride Lions side that toured SA in the seventies...they took us out 3 times and drew the last test in PE.

The SA rugby selectors (and public) went into a flat spin and panicked and made changes (and criticisms and suggestions) in their futile attempts to stop a white-wash...we only went from bad to worse...the more they fiddled and changed players, the worse it got.

They simply could not accept that the Lions side (despite the Boks being good) were streaks ahead in talent...the tourists incidentally were the greatest rugby side ever...most rugby pundits will agree with that.

Decades later we find a similar situation that has been developing...our rugby players are still loaded with talent but we have the same mindset...change this player...don't play the flyhalf at 10 but 12 or the centre at wing or vica versa...all uncontrolled speculative thinking but there are other problems too...not only a political quota interference but a lack of stability in SA rugby's future...WP rugby is absolute disarray, the closing down of the most historic and most loved Newlands, we also hear of a leaking exodus of players from the Lions and other franchises seeking a more stable secure platform to continue in their sporting careers. We have had a series of mediocre and poor coaches who actually had an impossible task...admittedly a good coach could have done a bit better but even perhaps not enough...Mitchell now is leaving the Bulls.

There just is a feeling of despair in the rugby circles, often very hard to describe and be more objective but I think the "heart and spirit" of SA rugby is slowly dying. There is very little wrong with talent technically and physically but we just cannot heal it and put it together.

Come the 4 nations, personally I believe we have absolutely no chance against NZ...we might get lucky with the Pumas and perhaps one win against the Wallaby's but even this is doubtful.

I wish I am wrong and proved wrong but I'm afraid I cannot see it, especially with some of the choices that are merely political window dressing.

SA rugby is bleeding but there again so is the whole country and no I'm not a negative person, nor a prophet of doom.


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
07 Aug 2018, 16:15
#22
07 Aug 2018, 16:15#22

Sebastien ... we have a new whizz coach at the helm ... one with smarts second to none ... who will rescue our beloved Bok and restore us to where we belong ... on top of the world ... or so most believe ... ask SharkShit ... he's totally convinced. 

The truth of the matter is, that we are due a series of hidings under this whizz coach and that it too will not be enough to wake the public up from it brainwashed state.

Rassie has made a series of decisions based on race ... and the public seems fine with it. He has no interest in our game. Playing the hero is more important to him.

His assistant coach is a quota ... his capt and openside flank is a quota ... his views on retaining Jantjies is race based, as I'm sure he would not have afforded the same time and effort on any white player ... and the public is fine with that too. 

They stood up as one man when Kolisi the quota ran on as Bok capt. The mere fact that he's a very poor rugby player didn't matter to them. They saw how he struggled to make on field decisions and needed the aid of the white man. That too was ok with the crowd. "The poor black man ... he needs a little help".

Everyone has bought into this bull shit ... and Rassie is the one spearheading the acceptance of the quota campaign ... to our detriment.  

Most of the public can't tell the difference between a talented player and an appeasing token. Go ahead ... test it out on SharkShit. You'll see what I mean.

They believe the rubbish that's written. Our country is filled with totally ignorant supporters ... much like SharkShit ... who thinks that the squad Rassie selected is a good squad. Good enough to beat the world. He's cheering from afar. Delighted that we have so many quotas in the mix.

There are so many of his type around it's sickening. They keep supporting this absurdity ... and all we see is sub standard performances on field.

We can probably manage a test against the likes of Italy, Zimbabwe and Namibia ... but any opponent that's a little stronger and out come the excuses ... nonsense about how we no longer have the talent. That was Meyer's excuse. He failed but it's the players fault.  Little did he know that we had a Malcolm Marx waiting for his shot. Jaco Kriel. A CJ Stander.

So yes ... I agree with you ... we are deep in the dwang.

I will be cheering for all those against Rassie and his quotas.



TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
09 Aug 2018, 19:52
#23
09 Aug 2018, 19:52#23

SA rugby is bleeding but there again so is the whole country


For bleeding, it is bleeding. This is the path SA was put on: bleed and export the blood.

SA rugby are in terminal condition. Time to unplug.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
10 Aug 2018, 08:47
#24
10 Aug 2018, 08:47#24

Indeed, time to unplug yours from life(white) support and allow nature to take its course. 

Natural selection.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
11 Aug 2018, 19:05
#25
11 Aug 2018, 19:05#25

Natural selection is no longer at work. Or there would not be rugby in SA.

And white SAns would have been unplugged from SA support.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
11 Aug 2018, 21:18
#26
11 Aug 2018, 21:18#26

It's funny how those who hate whites are more than happy to enjoy the benefits that come from them. Would you like to go back to huts and loin cloths? It's like those people who harp on about cultural appropriation: they do it while speaking the native language of another people, wearing their clothing, enjoy the innovations they invented and the very culture they have. The greatest of hypocrites. 

— END OF THREAD —

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