SA Line-out problems worsened

The following is the SA team for Saturday:-

15  Willie le Roux, 14  Makazole Mapimpi, 13  Lukhanyo Am, 12  André Esterhuizen, 11   Aphiwe Dyantyi, 10  Handré Pollard, 9  Faf de Klerk, 8  Warren Whiteley, 7  Siya Kolisi (c), 6  Francois Louw, 5  Franco Mostert, 4  Eben Etzebeth, 3  Frans Malherbe,  2  Malcolm Marx, 1  Tendai Mtawarira

Replacements   :  16  Bongi Mbonambi, 17  Steven Kitshoff, 18  Wilco Louw,  19  RG Snyman,  20  Pieter-Steph du Toit,  21  Embrose Papier,  22  Lionel Mapoe, 23  Damian Willemse

One of the problems on Saturday was the fact that the SA line-outs did not fire all out in the Durban test last Saturday, especially in respect of the following:-

*   the total absence of a third line-out option by any of the loosies; and to a lesser extent 

*   the inaccuracy in throw-ins by Marx.

The above problem was one of the main deficiencies in the game and fact is that the blame was laid at the feet of Marx alone.   That was just a minor problem compared to the real problem that needs to be attended to.   Playing for the Lions in the past Whiteley was performing as the third line-out option - but there is no evidence of any contribution like that on Saturday.   Louw was also a possible third option - but he was never in sight either.   Neither was Kolisi.

The selection of Mostet will not solve the problem - he is in fact not a player that can take opposition balls on thow-in and he is not on par with Du Toit insofar as play outside of fixed play is concerned.   An example is he tackle count of Du Toit was 19 tackles made and one missed - better than 2 loosies (Louw and one of the two loosies) combined.

The line-out problem will not be solved by replacing Du Toit with Mostert - it may even be worsened.   The answer is to find a third line -out option.   This may still be acceptable on Saturday - but on the Australisia tour it will be a disaster.     

Well, they did win 83% of their lineouts, and pinched a couple from Argentina. That was comfortably the best performance on the weekend by any RC team. 

Mike

Wasn't the combo of Marx & Mostert one of the most successful in both retention and steals over the last two SR seasons?

Whitley, Eben, Mostert...

Where's the problem?

Was only 83% of line-outs won on own throw-in?  If so - it was in fact a disaster,   Line-out losses on own throw of 17% is a rank disaster.- way in excess of the normal 5 - 7% in normal games.   Fact is - the only equal type of count was in the World semi in 2015 - when the Springbok line-out was extremely poor as well.   

There was one negating factor - namely 4 line-outs were taken on Argentine throw-ins - 2 by Etzebeth and 2 by Du Toit - which will not happen against Australia and New Zealand.  

There were three losses when Marx was throw-in  7 meters or less  from the Springboks tryline - which should have been the base for further attacks and was not.

Plum

The test is not Super Rugby - sorry to differ from you in that.   Success in Super Rugby in Tight 5 play - can never be equated to similar success on test level.   

Don't you think a third line-out option is not essential in test and even Super Rugby level?

To be quite frank the selection of Mostert is not an issue.   I would have selected him myself as well.    My beef is with the loosies who were totally absent on that issue last Saturday.   I would have suggested to play Du Toit at 7 - move Kolisi to 6 and play Whiteley at 8.  That would have been a far better option.   

@clever

thats funny.

last i checked, Mostert had an incredible lineout record on all levels.

great poacher too.

I think you like pissing people off with your drivel.

Chippo

This issue is not the Mostert selection - fact it has near to zero about it.   The real problem is the third line-out option deficiency and the total absence of a contribution in that regard by the SA loosies.  

In the English tests Du Toit played at 7 and not as a lock - that is why we were fine.

Your heeadline makes it sound like we have an inherint ineout problem that we can't rid ourselves of.

Now you say...

"In the English tests Du Toit played at 7 and not as a lock - that is why we were fine."

That is a contradictory statement in many ways as it elludes to the fact that our lineouts were fine.

Anyway, i've seen where these debates end up, so i've made my point and i'm happy to leave it at that.

GO BOKKE!!!

A total disaster? I'm glad you admit that the ELVs and Super rugby have deteriorate the quality of set pieces in Sourhern Hemisphere rugby. I mean, if the best Southern Hemisphere lineout is a disgrace, what are the rest? 

Oh how I miss Juan ball. Right to the back and the Boks flooding into midfield. 

Mozart

It is hard to write anything on site which will not be distorted and lied about by idiots.   You as per normal have a prejudiced BS empty rugby brain.

I said twice this has nothing to do with the selection of Mostert - even though I did add that Du Toit is a better player than Mostert in all facets of play.

It has everything to do about having a third option as a line -out jumper.   All leading rugby teams have a third or even fourth option as line-out jumpers - SA had none in the test last Saturday.   

It must be added that I accept that this is beyond your thinking ability on rugby - so many things are.  

SB

There is no chance of quick turnover ball at breakdown situations.  The only real turnover specialist last Saturday was Marx.  Our loosies were incapable to do that Louw made one and Van Staden 1 - none of the above  turnovers were quick turnovers.  

None of the loosies we have at present has any record of ball turnovers in test - fact is that after 2015 Louw actually specializes on test level in being penalized while arriving late at breakdowns and then trying to make turnovers.   Whiteley and Kolisi have been totally absent in that facet of play.

 Quick turnovers require faster loosies than we have and a contribution by backline players as well.   The only contributor in the backline in that respect in 2015 was De Allende where he was the third highest turnover maker in the WC series.   The rest were virtually non-existent and is the same at present.

Mozart

This is further proof of your rank idiocy.   Even your normal supporters have deserted you in this case.    What a farcical BSter you are.

Mozart doesn't need my help. He is slayin' it like a boss

Ende. 

Ja

When you put a test jersey on, you throw more accurately and jump twice as high.

Mostert, despite being a grunt of note, is a good/very good lineout option. It is possible to be both. 

Ja

When you put a test jersey on, you throw more accurately and jump twice as high.

Mostert, despite being a grunt of note, is a good/very good lineout option. It is possible to be both. 

Flip was another of those. 

This Kolisi thing is a real problem. 

He's not a fetcher, not a jumper, not a prolific cleaner and doesn't get around as much as he should for someone who is none of those things.

He is however the great dark hope and now that Rassie made him skipper there is nothing to be done. 

Are we now gonna get into a situation where the skipper is routinely subbed 50 minutes in? I hope not.

Mozart

If you cannot debate a rugby issue like this because the piss has taken over where your briamn was then there is no help for you - low life, 

Listen dim one - the whole discussion is about additional line out options - are you too dim to realize that.   

Lets go back to the semi of WC 2015,  The Line outs were  a disaster since the Springboks had only two options to throw to.   In previous tests Vermeulen was considered a third option - but he was nowhere to be seen on that day - Read played the fool with him.   Louw never really was an option.   The show was bad that day - with both Etzebeth and De Jager losing line-outs on own throw.  After coming from the bench Matfield  buggered up the first lineout on own throw  and the change made no impact on what followed.  

Now lets go to the June tests against England the Springboks did well enough with Mostert and Snyman at lock and Du Toit at no 7,    That was followed by the under-par performance in line-outs on Saturday when the Springboks only got a 83% success rate on own throw - a very poor percentage,    The Argentinians brought in a fourth line-out option on Saturday  and I expect nothing better by the Springboks than what happened last Saturday.

Now forward to the Australasian tour,   The Aussies and All Blacks will murder us in line-outs if we only have 2 options with their 3 or 4 options.   

So now lets get to the real problem - why should the Springboks only have a third option in circa 27 minutes in the game - by that time the damage would have been done.   

Your comments are utter nonsense and there is no answer of any consequence in this case.  In all other cases your absurd prejudice BS takes out anything of value as to your contribution to discussions.   Your debating abilities  have been piss-poor for years now.   When poor play by your favourites caused problems  and it was discussed on site - your best contribution was to divert attention away from what did happen or to try and cover things up by deceit.   This was exactly what happened in the case of this thread as well.           

If ever there is a totally idiotic answer o a reasonable question - the above by Mozart takes the cake.  Do you have any opinion about the issue?  From your comments NONE at all.