'SA props need to learn to scrum'- W

A top New Zealand scrum coach believes South African props will need to learn to scrum now that the IRB has implemented the new scrum engage laws. 

Hurricanes scrum coach Dan Cron, son to scrum guru Mike, says the new laws are likely to give New Zealand an added advantage in the scrums and believes it will disadvantage South African teams.

In a week where Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer admitted “we are in trouble as far as tightheads are concerned”, Cron’s comments to the Dominion Post will raise a few eyebrows.

"In my opinion, for the lesser scrums there's no hiding now - no tactics, no hit-and-run. You've got to man up and fight to the death now," Cron told the newspaper.

Cron believes the disappearance of the hit will affect South African props, who used their bulk to ensure they gained an advantage.

"Pretty much any South African tighthead [prop] is going to have to sharpen up a bit," said Cron.

Front rows will now fold in and bind before the referee instructs the halfback to put the ball in. That's the cue to push and without the massive stress caused by the hit, both hookers will have the opportunity to strike for the ball.

Tighthead props in Super Rugby average 61 minutes of game time but Cron told the newspaper that will decrease to between 40 and 50 minutes due to extra pushing required at scrum time. That will also change how front-rowers train and eventually the body shape that's required to play there, he said.

The Boks have gone with Coenie Oosthuizen, normally a loosehead, as their back-up for tighthead Jannie du Plessis for the upcoming Castle Rugby Championship.

What I do not understand is that if the Boks have by far the best driving maul in the world , then why are we not dominating the scrums?

Driving mauls often allign in a scrum format, and extra weight should be an advantage.

Even the SuperXV teams are better at driving mauls than most countries test teams

The Boks of old I thought were some of the best scrummagers in the world.

Our depth at tighthead is so bad that Meyer is on record saying that he may need to recruit one of the Bulls cheerleaders to play at tighthead.

How can the wee All Blacks challenge us at scrum time.

I have often though teams like Australia with a weak scrum just bend the rules where ever possibale, or just outsmart stronger props than them. 

Maybe the new rules will actually favour South Africa. Surely if we have a bigger pack we should expect to dominate a smaller pack?

What is the point of having bigger forwards that are less mobile if we cant utilize this properly.

 no comments? 

I thought this would be a key area in the 4 nations this year

Smaller, technical tightheads might come into their own with this rule. Herbst is the fellow that's worth another look....I'm afraid Coenie still has more to learn. 

What is the possibilty that it just might be the Kiwis who are in for a surprise? As far as I understand it, the new laws also makes it difficult to use illegal scrumming techniques. Will it no longer be necessary for the refs to just make thumbsuck decisions at scrum time, because it should be easier to spot the real offenders at collapsed scrums?

 Just shows how useless and out of touch Meyer is. We have more depth at tighthead than most.

Jannie has a year or two left in him. Malherbe came of age in this years S15. Coenie did well at tighthead for much of his time this year and is work in progress as is the impressive Marcel v/d Merwe now with the Bulls and back from injury. Frik Kirsten of the Bulls is an impressive young tighthead, who proved in the semi that he should have played ahead of Werner Kruger all S15. Herbst of the Sharks is good as was Adriaanse who played for the Cheetahs. Hell and Mujati is only 28, if Meyer had any clout he would have had him on board ages ago.

I know for a fact none of the NH sides have this much depth at 3 and nor do Oz. Meyer as per usual is speaking shit.

Hopefully the new Scrum Laws will actually force teams to learn how to scrummage, full stop. Like they used to have to in the past. Because the Scrum has just become a farce of late.

You don't just use it to see who can force a Penalty from the opposition or try to fool the Ref into thinking your opponant is cheating, you should actually be trying to do your job and actually be putting the ball in straight if you are a Scrum Half, hooking it back, if you are a Hooker and so forth.

Yeah, I'm that old that I remember the days when people used to actually play Rugby that way !!!

The new Rules should suit teams like England and SA more so than some of the other nations, but we shall see how that pans out. Players just need to remember how to actually do their jobs first.

And talking about it won't get results on the pitch, now will it ? !

theres a lot of merit to the comments that dan cron made, i think the new rules will take out the edge from one of the Boks main scrummaging weapons.
the lack of impact which generates both a menta and physcial edge will force the Boks and SA teams for that matter to be smarter and more technical. i dont think it will take the Boks long to adjust, by they will need and adjusting period to settle.

the walabies will be the biggest benefactors from this rule and the pumas will be hit the hardest, their scrums have always been class, but theyre in the same boat as the Boks, i just think it will take longer for them to adapt.

So whats new guys? the boks scrum has been as worthless as pig sht since the british lions came down to biltong country and scrumed your front row back like they were accordians! ever since then you guys get pulverised in scrums except for one of big tests like the 07 final. hell its been about the 8th best scrum in the world for aaaggeees!!!! new zealand have had the advantage over saffers in all that time and between 04 and 07 had THE best scrum in the world but have been pretty shit compared to the NH since then so bad that Italy nearly scored an upset in new zealand from thge scrum alone. but they still the best in between aus and rsa. so in reality this guys comments are about something thats been a reality for 17 years.

 Ihi whatever that is, you sould like you know fuck all about rugby, may i suggest you piss off before you take an intellectual beating

In the past 17 years south africa has been dominated by argentina, italy, georgia,, england, france, even wales, ireland, scotland, usa (2001), new zealand, australia in the scrum. so where have the boks really had a quality scruum saffex?

@Ihi The Springbok scrum is not up to standard.

The best scrum in the Southern Hemisphere over the last 20 year or so has been Argentina, followed by the All Blacks. 

The Northern Hemishpere teams routinely outscrum the Southern Hemishpere games especially when played in the N.hemishpere on the software pitches.

Although I think most rugby fans around the world would agree that the shittest scrum is Australia.

The British Lions buckled them and England also destroy the Australian rubble of a scrum.

Australia never dominate any scrum.

They may get some favourable decisions by the referree, but they never lift the opposition front row or push the opposition backwards.

I think the team that will get most destroyed from the new rules is Australia.

 Ihi as I said you are too stupid to debate with.........am not going to waste my time with such stupidity.

Shark you are speaking shit, in the past 3 or 4 years the SA scrum has beaten the English pack at scrum time. Its been years since Argentina had a dominant scrum. None of the NH sides dominate the Bok or Kiwi scrums - your take is inaccurate

 one man ihi! adam jones! the monster the beast! the welsh scrumming machine! he did destory beast in the lions tour but he also destoryed the aussies! hell i would put money he would destory the all blacks he is the best scrumming prop in the world no doubt! the reason walse where do good these passed few years in the scrum is down to him! SA need a man like him! granted he doesnt do loads with ball in hand but he tackles well and he scrums well what more can you want if he win you 3-4 pens a game!

The simple fact is we do not scrum our weight due to technical obsolescence. The abs scrum is poor as we saw against England when they got pulverised. The SH sides had better get this right before the next WC.

The simple facts re the new law are it will take a huge amount away from kiwi sides. Under the old dispensation the kiwi refs could blow a sides scrum out of the game. More difficult under the new laws. This is bad news for the kiwis.(for once ou windpomp makes a valid point!)

I notice also that in the game sharks/versus not putting the ball in straight re scrums was penalised. Herbst was showed around badly by the Griquas and at 110 kg looks like he will not be a Bok.However with Jannie, Malherbe and Marcell v/d Merwe we are okay.

 Beeno1: you have to let go of this blaming the refs thing mate! We can all do that. I remember being huddled around a heater with my old man listening to the radio broadcasts of Boks v ABs & he was always spitting mad @ the refs - inhis opinion they always favored the Boks. In the modern game with replays & oversight , reviews ,etc it is much less likely to have a bent ref. 

on new scrum rules , kiwi coaches are saying the new rules will benefit us so both nations can't be right. Time will tell, can't wait for the kick off - we are in for some good games!

 I have to agree with Saffex about Coenie, I still think he is better off at loosehead as it allows him to play his mobile game. Your tighthead is the anchor and corner stone of your team. I think that beast is still playing really good rugby and with demands on players these days it better off having to excellent looseheads rather having to shoehorn your players into another position.

Going back to Coenie, I think that the new rules will benefit him. He has fantastic power. He got beaten on the hit at loosehead and thats why the cheetahs scrum never got the upper hand.

On the younger props, just remember that props get better with age and that they only get at their peak when they 30. 21 - 24 is still very young for a prop. So these youngsters saffex mention can only get better. 

 Really like the look of the new rules in the CC games so far. Has definitely helped scrum collapses and favors the stronger props as it should and made it a contest again.

Will be very interesting to see the RC packs matchup. Don't understand the AB's reasoning that it favors their scrum but all will become clear in due course.