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SA's most underrated player in the past decade?

Started by JeromeV42 REPLIES1,710 VIEWS· 21 Jul 2014, 14:02
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JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
21 Jul 2014, 14:02
#1
21 Jul 2014, 14:02#1

I did bring into discussion before how many underrated players there really is in SA including players in Super 15, but one player that comes to mind is possibly the most underrated player, it is the phenomenal Hooker Schalk Brits. I regard Bismarck as a worthy Springbok starting player although I can not deny that Schalk Brits should've have more springbok caps during the past 10 years. It is beyond me that one of the most influential all around hookers hasn't been given as much caps for the springboks as he deserves.

What a player.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
21 Jul 2014, 14:35
#2
21 Jul 2014, 14:35#2
I'm not sure Schalk Brits was so underrated. I think most people saw his value as an exciting and surprisingly elusive runner with the ball in hand but I suspect he would have been found out at test level for simply not being big or strong enough to be an international hooker. Great player to have in your side if you're playing Barbarians style rugby but not if you're playing a test match in Dunedin.

My idea of an underrated player is Jean Deysel. He's almost the opposite of Schalk Brits in that he was plenty big and strong enough for test rugby but perhaps he didn't have the pace or the skills. Personally I don't think he was given enough of a chance at test level to prove himself and I suppose you could say the same for Schalk Brits because they both got very limited chances in the green and gold but . . . but of the two, I'd have been more inclined to persevere with Deysel who I think could have been our next Andre Venter . . . to my mind another very underrated player . . . if you can be considered "underrated" with 66 caps to your name!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Jul 2014, 15:14
#3
21 Jul 2014, 15:14#3

Agreed on Brits being underrated, but sadly he was always going to be behind John Smit, Bismark and Strauss for they are/were simply just better players.

 

 

If you were choosing a squad with 3 hookers in it, Brits would always have been my 3rd choice - he just adds a whole new dimension and would have always been the perfect sub player off the bench against the lesser sides like Scotland etc.

 

 

Never physical enough to start a test, but a great player to have coming off the bench.

 

 

Rooi, agree on Deysel as well, your perfect blindside flanker - pure physicality

 

 

 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
21 Jul 2014, 15:43
#4
21 Jul 2014, 15:43#4
 Yep, fantastic ball in hand player. Reminds me of Kevin Mealamu. Only problem was that he couldn't scrum and the biggest of them all. Never through the ball in Straight. Same problem Fourie had.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Jul 2014, 15:51
#5
21 Jul 2014, 15:51#5
 Simply put, Brussow.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Jul 2014, 15:57
#6
21 Jul 2014, 15:57#6

Yes agreed on Brussouw - its pathetic how Meyer has ignored this guy........the man is very short sighted.

 

 

Brussouw is far better than Louw, who lets face it, is not really a 6, much like Schalk never was  

JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
21 Jul 2014, 16:04
#7
21 Jul 2014, 16:04#7
 I wouldn't question Brits physicality, I do think he could start in a
test match and make a impact on or off the bench. He's got more
than just physicality as a hooker, its the other abilities that
he's got which is great, its is not seen very often from a hooker.
Bismarck isn't much of a all around player as Brits, having
said that I'd rather start Brits a few years back but in the current
setup I'd prefer Bismarck to start due to Brits age and other
factors. Nonetheless there's no doubt that Brits is underrated.


Deysel is underrated too as well as Nizaam Carr and others.
Lets hope they don't get overlooked by springbok coaches
like Brits was.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
21 Jul 2014, 16:27
#8
21 Jul 2014, 16:27#8
He was underrated, I agree !! 
My Aunt met him last weekend, lovely chap, she said......and all this from an English woman  
Everybody loves him over here in England. Even those that don't like Saracens.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 16:30
#9
21 Jul 2014, 16:30#9

Nope....none of these guys were underrated.

 

 

Firstly Schalk Brits is not powerful enough for the tasks a hooker has to perform in test rugby. The wide open spaces are not going to magically appear against RC opposition. Szarzewski is a very similar player, fantastic with the ball , but ownable in the tight stuff.

 

Secondly Deysel is unfortunately too unskilled....very similar to Potgieter. One fool on this string actually wanted to replace Juan Smith with this ox, who can't even keep a Sharks starting berth. As we saw on Saturday he can be effective, but as we also saw  often his bullocking runs result in a lost ball. 

 

And finally Brussouw , while a superman, simply couldn't compete against the best bigger men. Pocock and Warburton owned him at the RWC.

 

 

I'm afraid, contrary to the usual BS the national coaches find all the test qualified players and give them ample opportunities. I can't think of one great ignored player who would have made a difference at test level.

GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
21 Jul 2014, 16:59
#10
21 Jul 2014, 16:59#10
The most underrated player has to be Juan Smith! Schalk got all the praise but he was definitely the best flank in SA right up to his injury, especially in his position (best in the world in my opinion) . Never got the praise or recognition he deserved ever. Such a pity. But that is so typical of our best players, all of them have been slagged off at one time or another. Weird.
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
21 Jul 2014, 17:02
#11
21 Jul 2014, 17:02#11
 Mozart you are completely wrong. Nobody ever owned Brussow, and not at the World Cup either, he was our best loosie in the World Cup and no surprise once he was injured in a dirty play it was a free-for-all at the breakdown. Brussow totally dominated everyone he played against. The Welsh game was a mess because we played Butch at 12 and had injury troubles elsewhere. But Butch at 12 allowed their big runner so much opportunity to disrupt the space between 10-12. The forward pass for their try didn't help either. So nothing to do with Brussow either.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Jul 2014, 17:12
#12
21 Jul 2014, 17:12#12
David Pocock - 104kgs and 1.84mHeinrich Brussow - 101kgs and 1.81m Sam Warburton - 106kgs and 1.88m 
Barely any difference.
Weasel bull shitting again? Forgotten all about the injury he had before the RWC 2011 and the Bryce Lawrence escapade. Have a read of this. 
"20 June 2009 : South Africa vs British and Irish Lions I: Heinrich Brüssow replaces injured Schalk Burger in the starting line-up. His ball-stealing and recovering skills proved too much for the Lions. When he was replaced in the second half, the Lions managed to fight back, but not enough to win the game. Scored a try from the back of a maul and was outstanding as they went on to secure a 2–1 series victory.
27 June 2009 : South Africa vs Lions II: Brüssow came on in the 62nd minute and effected a few crucial turn-overs helping seal the 28–25 victory for the South Africans.
25 July 2009 : South Africa vs All Blacks I: Although being targeted, Brüssow battled competently against Richie McCaw, who is widely considered the best open-side flanker in the world. He made a number of crucial turn-overs and tackles. He was named Man-of-the-Match in the 28–19 victory.
1 August 2009 : South Africa vs All Blacks II: Continuing to build on his reputation, Brüssow again managed to compete with the All Black captain Richie McCaw at the breakdown. He once again made a number of crucial turnovers, tackles and powerful runs as the Boks won 31–19.
8 August 2009 : South Africa vs Wallabies I: Brüssow was once again in outstanding form for the Springboks as his ruck work, brutal hits and ball-carrying led South Africa to victory over Australia. His opposite number George Smith, also considered one of the best in world rugby, could not cut it with Brüssow, and his frustration led to a yellow card.
13 November 2009 : South Africa vs France: It was a grey evening for the men in green, as they were out-muscled by France 20–13. Brüssow, though, stood up and kept the Springboks in the match with several vital turnovers and tackles. Even though it was a defeat, the match in Toulouse was considered Brüssow's best in a test jersey up to that stage, and was named SA Rugby young player of the year.


20 August 2011: After a lengthy injury lay-off, Brüssow returned to the international stage in the Springboks' final two Tri Nations matches of the 2011 season. After a short stint against Australia (13 August 2011), he played a full game against New Zealand All Blacks. With a first-off whitewash on the cards, Brüssow's fetching skills would be vital, in order for the Boks to gain some momentum before the (RWC World Cup 2011). Brüssow delivered a Man-of-the-Match winning performance. One that saw him make some fantastic and crucial turnovers, immense tackles and ball carries while going through an enormous amount of donkey work and taking a boot to the face for his efforts. Brüssow ended the game with a bloodied, pockmarked face and bandage, but most probably assured his place in Peter de Villiers' plans for rugby's greatest stage in New Zealand, the 2011 Rugby World Cup.
9 October 2011: After South Africa progress to the quarter finals of the Rugby World Cup they lose 11–9 in Wellington to be knocked out of the competition."
Summary = 20 caps, 1 try and two (Known/stated) Man of the Match awards. As well as a Tri-nations Championship win, British and Irish Lions series win and whitewash over the All Blacks. Also take note of him outplaying Richie McCaw and George Smith.




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 17:16
#13
21 Jul 2014, 17:16#13
Pocock ran right over the top of Brussouw after which he got up slowly....it was a significant statement. Brussouw may have been hurt in this game, but unfortunately that counts. Pocock dominated the match and we exited the RWC. Brussouw is a great player, with a lion's heart, unfortunately his body struggles to keep up. And he certainly is highly respected and not underrated.
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
21 Jul 2014, 17:30
#14
21 Jul 2014, 17:30#14
 Nonsense, Brussow is the best fetcher there is period. Such a shame the weaker less effective Louw became Meyer's blue-eyed boy. Mozart, Pocock shoulder charged Brussow off the ball. Any player in rugby can dominate anyone if they resort to foul play. Says alot about the length teams have to go to get the upper hand. Once he left the field it was over for us. So in other words he carried the Boks! Singlehandedly lifted the Boks in 2009. Should have been player of tge year but of course McCaw, who was kak all year, gota consolation prize.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 17:39
#15
21 Jul 2014, 17:39#15
 Not true....Pocock ran over Brussouw, ball in hand. 
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Jul 2014, 17:41
#16
21 Jul 2014, 17:41#16
 So? Morne Steyn bounced Brodie Retallick.
GT
Gonzo the GreatClub Pro560 posts
21 Jul 2014, 17:44
#17
21 Jul 2014, 17:44#17
 Believe what you want, we all know the real value of Brussow. Maybe domination of our SANZAR rivals isn't good enough for you. If I were to be a distortionate one-incident junky too I would say Serfontein was a success. I could also say Os was a weaker tackler and useless old fool with abig heart after the Lions test. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 19:13
#18
21 Jul 2014, 19:13#18
That was an incident that had a big psychological impact on the game. The two champion Fletchers clash and Brussouw is left on the deck, apparently hurt. Advantage Australia.
Os never played in the Lions test...when Os played against the Lions he was a youngster. Up your game.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
21 Jul 2014, 19:51
#19
21 Jul 2014, 19:51#19
 Jorrie Muller to my mind was a class act!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Jul 2014, 20:18
#20
21 Jul 2014, 20:18#20

I just wonder when Warburton ever dominated Brussouw, this is the usual rubbish we have to put up with - what utter junk.

 

 

Much like Pocock ever owing him

 

 

The best openside flankers in the game are the smaller ones like Brussouw, Pocock, Smith, Hooper, Dusseltou etc  

NT
ntangaClub Pro336 posts
21 Jul 2014, 21:33
#21
21 Jul 2014, 21:33#21
 Give me Brussouw any day, the guy is the real deal, period.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 21:37
#22
21 Jul 2014, 21:37#22
Brussouw never plays a bad game....but he was dominated at the RWC. This from the match report:
 10:43

It's all Wales at the moment - and the crowd know it. The Welsh are really dominating at the breakdown, with Sam Warburton leading by example. They've just earned themselves another penalty, which Priestland punts into touch to put his side into an excellent attacking positon. The penalty count now reads 9-3 in Wales' favour.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 21:39
#23
21 Jul 2014, 21:39#23
See Dave, unlike you, I am always fact based.  
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
21 Jul 2014, 21:44
#24
21 Jul 2014, 21:44#24
Shezza, good call on Brussouw. Definitely one of the most underrated players of the last decade and the fact that the board's resident deceitful rugby noob is stamping his foppish old foot and arguing against him is all the proof you need that Brussow is a quality player who should have had double the number of caps he has received. 
The continued omission of Brussow is one of Heynecke Meyer's big blunders in my opinion . . . especially when one considers how bog ordinary Francois Louw has been. I'd take Brussow over Louw in a heartbeat.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 22:21
#25
21 Jul 2014, 22:21#25
Yes but you are the poster who was absolutely certain Luke Watson was a great, Fruit...we can't really take your views on fetchers seriously. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Jul 2014, 12:09
#26
22 Jul 2014, 12:09#26
 Shezza, there is something that you have ignored in all your quotes from different games. All of them, bar the last two, were from 2009. That was the season before the "daylight" interpretation came into effect. At that time the refs did not really police the law as it should have been. After 2009 there was a law clarification, IIRC, about this. It wasn't a change in the law at all. It was just the fact that it was never policed correctly in that they allowed tacklers to attack the ball, immediately after the tackle, instead of properly releasing the tackled player before attacking the ball. That was when they came up with the  phrase that there has to be daylight between the tackler and the tackled player. Brussow perfectly exploited the earlier "wrong/faulty" policing of the law at the time.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
22 Jul 2014, 13:46
#27
22 Jul 2014, 13:46#27
So did all the other fetchers? He wasn't just a fetcher, the amount of work he puts in every match is fantastic and his link up play is superb, best looseforward in SA by a country mile. 
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
22 Jul 2014, 14:00
#28
22 Jul 2014, 14:00#28
Yep Rooi, Moz isn't the most knowledgeable when it comes to rugby and I would have liked to see some of his posts about Brussow in 2009-2011.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jul 2014, 15:10
#29
22 Jul 2014, 15:10#29

Spot on call Rooi........if Moffie dislikes a player (mainly because I rate them), you know he is good, if he is pro one you know he is either shit or long past it.

 

Moffie has to be the worst player analyst I have ever come across and I mean that sincerely.

 

But without his ignorant views on players, this board would be dead.

 

Long live the old man

 

Brussouw and Coetzee over Louw anyday.....its not even a close call

  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Jul 2014, 15:20
#30
22 Jul 2014, 15:20#30
 
Shezza

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1034 RE: SA's most underrated player in the past decade?
July 22, 2014, 11:46:45 So did all the other fetchers? He wasn't just a fetcher, the amount of work he puts in every match is fantastic and his link up play is superb, best looseforward in SA by a country mile. 
Correct, but with his low centre of gravity, and upper body strength, he exploited it the best at the time. The changes in the policing of the law and, of course, his injury at that stage, took him out of the equation for quite some time. Because of his injury he was, in a way, disadvantaged to adapt to the new way that they policed the law. He was out of action at the time when other fetchers had the opportunity to get used to the new ways.
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
22 Jul 2014, 15:25
#31
22 Jul 2014, 15:25#31
" ...best looseforward in SA by a country mile." - Brussouw??? Bullshit.

That is pure rhetoric... The same thing everyone was screaming, when his statistics indicated in terms of specifically tackles and turn-overs that he was probably the 7th best loose-forward a while back.

Just like on here believe the following players are all test class:
- Coenie
- Strauss
- Nyakane
- Lood
- Brussouw
- Labuscagne
- Pretorius
- Goosen
- Hendricks
- Willie le Roux

While a few of them may in fact be test level players, the Cheetahs finished 14th out of 15 possible at provincial level... Chucking those players into a Bok team to face the All Blacks w ould be idiotic...

While what they do "look nice", it is ineffective and leads to the team losing A LOT!

So, we are going to become number 1 in the world,  by playing most of the team that ended up as number 14 out of 15 in a regional tournament?
Think again!

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jul 2014, 16:01
#32
22 Jul 2014, 16:01#32

The Troof are we meant to take your ignorant list as gospel......one would swear you had some rugby credibility on here and that we are to believe you that a class player like Willie is not test class........fuck me how ignorant and stupid are you? 

 

Stick to knitting or something - geez man

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
22 Jul 2014, 16:12
#33
22 Jul 2014, 16:12#33
The Truth, you might want to retract Nyakane and Pretorius then you'll be closer to the mark. There's a reason why loads of the Cheetahs are getting poached from foreign clubs. 
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
22 Jul 2014, 19:09
#34
22 Jul 2014, 19:09#34
 Awww shame... Poor old Saffex still not able to read!

"While a few of them may in fact be test level players, the Cheetahs finished 14th out of 15 possible at provincial level..."

You fucking retarded fool!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Jul 2014, 19:24
#35
22 Jul 2014, 19:24#35
 The Trooth Fairy has spoken - the idiot reigns supreme as per normal.  What has the Cheetahs got to do with the issue at hand here - you blithering idiot?   There are elements of the Cheetahs game that other Unions with stronger squads should follow. 
Just think what a wonderful backline the Bulls will have have f they even try.
Don't know why I make these remarks - it will go straight over your head,  
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
22 Jul 2014, 19:37
#36
22 Jul 2014, 19:37#36
 Well old idiotmike. The cheetahs has everything to do with this discussion. As those are the players, people like you, Saffex and Shezza rate as Boks. Then people post bullshit like Brussouw is under-rated, while he is in fact over-rated by most uninformed "fans". People like you, Saffex and Shezza who merely form their opinions based on what some journalist opined at some stage. You know, that journalist who never even touched a rugby ball in his life, because he was busy playing chess with the other nerds.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Jul 2014, 19:54
#37
22 Jul 2014, 19:54#37
 Just BTW, Mozart gets ridiculed as a rugby ignoramus for his rugby views, but strangly it more or less concurs with those of the current coach and of his 2 predecessors.  I don't always agree with Moz, but he is mostly spot on with his assesments of new players blooded. I might also note that he has changed his mind about players he did not previously rate. Note to Mike and some other Fantasy rugby players: Coaches use more stats than those used by the creators of these fantasy leagues.  There are a bit more to rugby than the simplistic application of stats.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jul 2014, 20:03
#38
22 Jul 2014, 20:03#38
Troof don't fucking insult me by asserting I formulate my opinions based on some idiot journalists take on a player - fuck off you twat
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
22 Jul 2014, 20:15
#39
22 Jul 2014, 20:15#39

DbDraad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 840 RE: SA's most underrated player in the past decade?
July 22, 2014, 17:54:43  Just BTW, Mozart gets ridiculed as a rugby ignoramus for his rugby views, but strangly it more or less concurs with those of the current coach and of his 2 predecessors.  I don't always agree with Moz, but he is mostly spot on with his assesments of new players blooded. I might also note that he has changed his mind about players he did not previously rate. Note to Mike and some other Fantasy rugby players: Coaches use more stats than those used by the creators of these fantasy leagues.  There are a bit more to rugby than the simplistic application of stats.
More important, Draad, is that those stats are weighted values. "Someone" has decided what the allocated points for certain data elements are supposed to be.

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
22 Jul 2014, 20:30
#40
22 Jul 2014, 20:30#40
 Three come to mind:
Puke WatsonSilky RoseEarl Jantjies.
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