SA Team Selection this week

Before Saffex turn up with his wonderful Barometer again I am going to post my selections for this week and he may not like it at all:-

15   -     Pietersen

14   -     Ndungane

13   -     De Villiers

12   -     De Allende

11   -    No -ne stood out - a toss-up

10   -     Goosen

  9   -     Pretorius

  8   -     Spies

  7   -     Labuschagne

  6   -     Kolisi

  5   -     Bekker

  4   -     De Jager

  3   -     Malherbe

  2   -     Strauss

  1   -     Kitshoff

Some rather surprising selections and I was hessitating about some positions.  There was no real standout playes on the wings and I could not really identify any really good options.  Would like to hear comments on that one.    The Sharks wings could not come into the picture - since  Francois Steyn was atrocious once again and caused the whiole backline to misfire.

Arno Botha once again had a top game - but was pipped at the post by a really outstanding performance by Labuschagne  - the latter being the standout player of the weekend - as he was last week as well

I hessitated between De Jager and Steenkamp for selection at 4.   The latter disrupted the Chiefs line outs completely and that was a major achievement.

The Sharks props gave away penalties like they were handing out gifts to the Kings at Christmas time  - hence my surprise selections of the props.

 Never watched the Stormers game (4am) so I cant comment but De Allende must have had a very good game to make it over Ebersohn this week. Thats good for SA rugby as Frans is proving less and less likely to transform into a world beater at 12 unfortunately.

Glad you have not selected 1 Sharks player. None of them deserve a mention!! Least of all Jordaan, Mvovo and Reinach this week!!

boklogic

I think one of the stars for the Stormers this weekend was in fact De Allende.  He really was the player that often put the Stormers on the front foot in attack and was very strong in carrying balls and making runs that caused problems for the defence of the Chiefs.   Very strong defender as well.

De Allende was massive! A true monster! He may not be rapid fast like SBW but he is a monster and most of all he passes the ball and gives the players outside him a chance! And mike I don't think you can not put goo in this weekend yes they where easy tries but he was in the right place so shows he has that ball sense he would take my 11 this week I know he plays 14 but there is very little difference in wings :) just my thought 

Mike I only saw the two games yesterday....so I can't comment on Bools or Cheetahs. But I dont think Pietersen was that good...he made some poor decisions and that dropped kick off let the Chiefs back into the game. Nor do I think Kolisi deserves those accolades, blowing a try scoring chance with a high body position.....and being the guy who overan his tackle to create the overlap for the last Chiefs try.

The front row thing was complicated by some strange calls on the Sharks scrum. The Sharks were killing the Kings but were constantly penalized.....a rare occurence. The Stormers props weren't a liability yesterday, but more because the Chiefs were so weak.

Mozart

I had serious problems in finding selections for some of the positions.  There was really no full back that showed anything much and the only reason I went for Pietersen was the goalkicking.   Other than that dropped ball I ould not fault him - so I took him as the only reasonable choice.

Insofar as Kolisi is concerned it was a very close call between him and Stegmann,    My main  problem is that Kolisis has never made a turnover in possession as yet for the Stormers in all games he played this year - but in the game on Saturfay he did make more tackles and carried the ball foward more than Stegman did.   On the othr hand Stegman did effect two turnovers in possessiion which should perhaps have swung the decision in his favour,   Be it as it may Kolisis is not realy up to standard as he is apparently incapable of making turnovers in possession - thus eliminating one of the key requirements of loosies.   

 Pretty much spot on. Kolisi is an 7 /8 , not a fetcher but was used there last year as most of the stormers back row got crocked.

i think frans stern might be the real reason why the sharks haven't scored any tries in their last two games. I would bring back whitehead. Hugely under rated player who has a fantastic distribution game. Move frans back to fullback. 

My sense is Fran's is best at 15.....entering the line rather than being part of it.

I too am starting to lose faith in Frans Steyn as a center.

He just seems to be crashballing and not gaining many metres and also losing possesion in the tackle.

He is doing some good offloads, but Paul Jordaan also does not seem to support him so something is going wrong with this combination. 

Delande looks like a better inside center, with Jean looking good at outside center

The boks do not have a fullback that is quality at the moment.

Zane Kirchner is soljd but Frans would be a better option. 

-

The boks need Frans Steynskicking at fullback.

We usually have the best lineout in the world so a territory game works for the boks, especially against the All Blacks.

The boks are going to win more lineouts that what are lost especially against the All Blacks.

The Chiefs Lineout was torn to shreds over the weekend by the Stormers.

When kicking against the All Blacks the ball needs to go out to prevent them from counter attacking and it needs distance to play the game in the All Blacks half

Sharkbok

I agree with you - there is a problem with the combination between Francois Steyn and Jordaan.   But that problem will not be solved without doing something about Francois Steyn.  I sense that when Steyn was benched in Saturday and Bosman brought in - the backline performance improved and Jordaan's performance improved immediately.   He had quite a good run after that - so the rpoblem is probably with Steyn.

I looked at Steyn's  performances over the past three games and it showed serious deficiencies:-

  *   Carried ball forward        -        1

  *   Crashballed                -          11

  *   Turnover in possession  -        1

  *   Tackles                          -        11

  *   Cover catch of ball         -         1

  *    Goal kick missed          -         1

  *    Penalty given away      -         1

  *    Possession lost            -         2

The above stats is really poor and not one line break against any team - I think it has to do with deficient speed.      Although not the best around - I liiked at the performance of De Allende to put Steyn's performances into perspective:-

*   Line Breaks                          -      2

*  Carried  balls forward            -      7

 *  Crashballed                         -      10

 *   Tackles                                -      14

 *   Cover catch of ball              -        1

 *   Loose possession               -        2

It is clear that De Allende was better in all aspects of the game than Steyn.   De Allende did not show up well against the Bulls - but improved in each subsequent game.   Steyn in fact deteriorated in the seond and third games.

Whereas Steyn is slow off the mark - Jordaan is hanging back himself as he cannot be ahead of Steyn at any time of the game in the case of the occassional pass or off-load.   By the time Jordaan gets the ball on rare occassions it was to late to do much at all wiith it - the defenders were all over him and if he passes all over the recipients. To be effetive a center must be speedier than Steyn is with a faster passing action.

I think Plumtree got the hell in with Steyn - he apparently was not executing what was decided upon after the last game after which Plumtree said they are working on the backline deficiencies - and benched him.   It would be interesting to see whether Steyn is retained for the next game and I will not be surprised if Bosman starts ahead of him in the game against the Brumbies. 

Mike you have to be kidding, Joe was shocking at 15 and while none of the fullbacks stood out, he was the worst of the lot. Ludik was about the best of an average bunch.

What the hell did Jean do to merit selection at 13, once again he did sweet stuff all. JJ was the best of our 13's, closely followed by Jordaan, for trying hard.

de Jager was good at 4, but Flip just shades him because he put in more work with ball in hand.

Lets not be stupid and start pointing fingers at Frans when the whole Sharks side were poor. Frans has had two good games for the Sharks as have most their players. Sat was a write off for all of them. To blame one player is pathetic

Saffex

As I stated I could not really find an outstanding full back this week - both Danillier and Kirchner was nowehr to be seen - and the choice ultimately came down to Pietersen and Ludick.   I did not find any real difference that could separate them and I pickd Pietersen because of his goakicking.

When I wrote the selection I thought you would shout about Engelbrecht at 13.   He was good in defence and made and I took a careful look at his performance.   He had 5 ball carries, made 4 tackles and gave away 1 penalty.   De Villiers had 9 ball carries, made 5 tackles and caught one kick in defence.   The Villers was about twice as good as Engelbrecht in performance and that was the end of the story. 

Steyn had one average game against the Cheetahs and a poor game against the Stormers - followed by a wickedly poor game on Saturday.  After the Stormers game - Plumtree said he is dissatified with the Sharks backline performances and said they are working on it.   After watching the game and seeing what went wrong against the Kings - Plumtree subbed Steyn and immediately thereafter the Sharks backline showed some spark for the first time in the match.   That apparently tells you nothing - does it?   I have a faint suspicion that Steyn will be on the bench in the next game against the Brumbies - and Plumtreee will say it is because of their rotation policy - but nobody would be fooled by that one.   The Sharks made a mistake with the signing of Steyn and he is going to get the Viljoen treatment over the next few months - only played when injuries forced the coach to select him.  

Mike here is some advice stop judging players on the strength of stats, it tells me you have no confidence in your own judgement.

You cannot select a player based on goal kicking that is weak in itself and nor can you select a fullback that drops a basic take on his line that leads to a try. Joe was the worst of the fullbacks.

JJ was good with ball in hand and defence against the best centre pair in the competition. Jean did absolutely nothing of note, he once again just made up the numbers. de Allende on his inside had a great game, he made a difference. Jean and Sadie contributed nothing to their sides winning performances.

Of my favourite players only the Sharks players disappointed........JP, Jordaan, Frans, Mvovo, Lambie, Reinach, Beast, Jannie, Bresler and Coetzee were all flat......some were solid others average. Reinach and Lambie had games to forget about - with all that possession they misfired.

Snapster you are smoking something strong boet. Jean had a great game. He is looking good at 13.

Mike and any others - please wake up re Kolisi, he is not as strong as Marcell Coetzee who is struggling with test rugby. If you want a smaller fast number 6 look no further than the amazing Deon Fourie. Far better than Kolisi at 6. Name me one aspect of play where Kolisi is better than Deon at this point in time. There is not one.

Kolisi will be  spend time on the bench for the Stormers as either Fourie or Schalk will be at 6 with Tiaan back at hooker. I can see Kolisi doing well off the bench and at this early stage of his career its the right thing. No ways should he come near a Bok side now. Look at him in say 2 years time.

Name one good thing Jean did on Sat......never beat a tackle and could not have gained many metres with oppostion around him. He was once again a no show.

Saffex

None is as blind as those who do not want to see.   What De Villiers did is clearly outline above - together with th less done by Engelbrecht.   Can you read - or are you just too stupid to understand English?  

What did Jean do.......Dave you can't have been watching that game. Here are the relevant stats:

Potgieter..... 7 carries, no clean breaks, 2 defenders beaten, 19 metres.

Jean ....12 carries, 1 clean break, 2 defenders beaten, 72 metres.

Both players made 9 of their 11 tackles.

Dave I would suggest a visit to your local eye doctor. One thing Jean always does, and I'd like you chaps to look for this in the next game.....he moves forward a few metres from the point of contact. You don't see Jean being tackled backwards, and as a consequence he provides quick and secure ball. It's a pro move.

Mozart

Which Potgieter are you referrring to here?  I assume you meant Engelbrecht.

Moz you are not in a position to comment as you did not even see the Bulls game.

There is no way in hell Jean made a clean break or beat any defenders receiving the ball down the line. Jean did nothing of note during that game as a 13. He sometimes finds himself out wide on the wing, which I dont really get.......but the issue with Jean is that he does not make an impression against his opposite number, he does not challenge the defender by trying to beat him through pace or a step.

JJ did this against Ranger and was alot more threatening with ball in hand in structured back-line play - he challenges his opposite number, Jean does not as he no longer has those silky skills. Jean is a metronome, he just runs straight, its predictable stuff and easy to defend against. He is big and physical and relies on this to carry the ball a metre or two as you say but never looks to offload in contact and never looks to challenge defenders with pace or a step as he has neither - he is not a 13's backside - he is a liability at 13 as he does not have the skill set to play there.

What Jean does with ball in hand is not what we want from a 13

Wouldn't you know it, Spies was the best no.8....again!! He is going to be the Bok no.8 unless he gets injured. That is gonna piss a few people off!  

Yes Spies is playing good rugby, strong with ball in hand

Saffex

You carry on about Engelbrecht and base all your rguments on zilch supporting evidence.   There really is NO evidence at all.   If he was threatening he would have made a line break (which he did not make) and have beaten more than 2 tacklers.   He carried the balls foward 7 times making 19 meters in the process - that is an average of about 2,7 meters per carry.   Engelbrecht also madenine tackles and missed 2 - also gave away a penalty.

During his game De Villiers ws alamost twice as good as REngelbreht in all spects of the game - so your prejudice hsonce again trumped anything else.  Start being objective - i doubt very much if you can - but at least try.   

No Mike you are not being objective, you are being as stupid as usual and quoting worthless stats.

JJ had a good game for the Bulls, was far better than Jean, who as another poster on here correctly commented did sweet stuff all.

Please Saffex

Base your statements on proven facts - not on wild and uncorroborated statements without any evidence to upport it.   That is you standard way of dealing with any player - but it makes you really look foolish.   The day you can support your arguments with facts is the day I will start supporting you all out.   Until that time accept that i will always deal with players citically - but fairly.

I will give you one exxample - you quoted what was said about Olivier and Engelbrecht - but did not quote what the am writers said about De Allende and De Villiers.

You also made a wild statement about the center pairing of theBlues be the best in the competition - but is that so?   The Chiefs are statistically actually better - so on what do you base that statement?   Statements should be supported by facts - not by flights of imagination.

Mike debating with you is so tiresome for you are so stupid, but I'm drawn to having to respond as without you, there would be little movement on this site.

How many more times do I need to inform you that stats provide no context......a prime example of this is that Jean gained 72m in that last match, way more than anyone else. Hell if you rely on these stats, it gives the impression Jean had a dominating game. But reality tells us that Jean gained very few of these metres while challenging his opposite number. Context tells us that Jean found himself out wide on the wing a number of times in space, which puts those 72m into perspective. Now read this paragraph again and learn why stats only paint half the picture.

My quote on JJ and Oliviers good performance had nothing to do with the Stormers as I was discussing JJ performance and therefore anyone's take on de Allende and Jean was irrelevant. For the record I thought de Allende was great and said as much days ago. Jean did absolutely nothing in that match as he has done all season.

The Blues centre pair have been the best in the S15 thus far by some distance - they were even good in their loss to the Bulls. Everyone will tell you this