FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Saffex - after studying what Mitchell says on breakdown play

Saffex - after studying what Mitchell says on breakdown play

Started by clevermike15 REPLIES318 VIEWS· 30 Aug 2013, 12:21
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2013, 12:21
#1
30 Aug 2013, 12:21#1
I have come around to the conclusion of yours about our loosies. My future preferred loosies are the following:- 6 Kolisis 7 Labuschagne 8 Coetzee When Arno Botha comes back from injury he should be at 8 with one of the above three on the bench. I had to laugh about the comments made by Mozart - he mixes up breakdown ball recovery with rucks and then take his normal route about Meyer's present rubbish selections for the back row - as if they are worth having them being in the team. Performance wise every one of them is worth about 5% of what they should be worth and we are really in deep shit. However, Meyer does not know the difference either - he shout and scream about breakdown play - appoint a Consultant and try and coach players who are physically incapable of doing the job and then wonders why they do not come right. When will he ever learn???????
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:09
#2
30 Aug 2013, 16:09#2
Our best loosie combo would be: 6. Kolisi 7. Arno Botha 8. CJ Stander........with the likes of Brussouw, Labascagne, Coetzee, Elstadt and v/d Walt as back-ups
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:29
#3
30 Aug 2013, 16:29#3
So OOM back to trolling and stirring again? Pretty soon you will be crying and leaving the forum again. But tell me you ignorant dope....have you figured out that we didn't change from the 19th century in the year 2000? Or is that still confusing you....wehe!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:29
#4
30 Aug 2013, 16:29#4
In essence - just question - did you have a look at what Mitchell and others said about this issue and the responses of Beeno and Mozart on the issue. Do you feel that Mitchell is off the mark and that Meyer is correct in his back row selections? I believe you are very near the mark with your loosie selection comments. and in essence I do not have a problem with same - but perhaps Elstadt is also on the slow side and maybe the wrong one "false note". Be is as it may - it sounds very much like Mozart is stuck on the game plan of 2004 and Beeno is on cloud 9 - Meyer knows best and one faster loosie will solve all the problems - the other two can remain as carthorses - slow and inefficient. I can already hear the excuses when the Aussies whack us next week - bent referees, Morne converted three penalties and did nothing wrong - but for his aimless kicks. Kruger was 100% at lock - and so on and on. The real problem - a totally disfunctioning back row is ignored - there is no problem with that and then mixing up breakdown ball recovery with rucks follow to proof that all else are idiots - Meyer and they are correct - Meyer knows best. This kind of attitude reminds me of warnings given by experts that is ignored by the brainless who do not think at all.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:37
#5
30 Aug 2013, 16:37#5

I looked at our game against argetina again and I noticed that it wasn't so much the loosies not get to our breakdown fast enough but the way argetina defended and the patern of attack. In one instance the ball was shifted right where all of our forwards were in the middle, Pienaar swings the ball left to the outside backs but we only 3 players on that side. At the same time most of the Argetinian forwards were still on that side of the field. What happened was a missmatch where it was easy for the argies just to ruck over the ball.

On other occasions, this constent channel one bash crap, alberts get the ball in mid field with no players around him, he runs it up, you will not that when our forwards carry  the ball, the argies don't great flat line but great a second line defender, first defender tackler our ball carrier around tha ankels, brings him down and doesn't have to worry about the off load because no player is in support nor do our forwards have the skill to offload in contact. The supporting defender simply leans over the tackled player and put their hands on the ball which they only need one second to win the penalty. 

It is our playing pattern and the person controlling the flow of the ball, this is where we miss the Genius of Du Preez, he is the only 9 that can play Meyers attacking plan.

On the other team, they keep the ball of the ground with short passes, make contact and pop the ball to the supporting player.

We are playing stone age rugby. I reckon we need to get the cheetahs coaches

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:46
#6
30 Aug 2013, 16:46#6
Mozart I am not stirring again - I am asking whether you are thinking. I know that 2000 is in the 20th centrury - - but your thinking is so outdated it actually belongs in the 19th century. You got the whole argument wrong when you confuse completely rucks with breakdown ball recovery and that is a fact. Why do you not admit at least that one. 2013 is here and now and in just over 2 weeks time we are playing the All Blacks again. You are the real stats man on this site. Let me remind you of the stats of the Soweto game when we played the same three loosies as we do now:- Louw 0/0 0 0/4/4 0 0 0 0 0 5/2 0/0 0 0/0 Alberts 0/0 0 0/1/4 5 0 0 1 0 1/0 2/0 0 0/0 Vermeulen 0/0 0 0/4/1 0 0 0 0 1 6/0 0 010 :- No sign of the strong ball carries - no signs of the bone crushing tackles - no sign of th massive rucking perfoprmances - matter of fact an indication that the involvement of the loosies represent no more than 5% of what is really required from them. Are you still confused between breakdoiwn recovery and rucks? And let me remind you it is not I who are starting the name calling again when I have been cornered. So cut that one out please and comment on an honest basis please - don't try to find a diversion to get away from the issue, please.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:47
#7
30 Aug 2013, 16:47#7
Well Corn, given we won 93.9% of our rucks and the Bargies won 92.9% of theirs, the number of cases where: " it was easy for the argies just to ruck over the ball" seems to be pretty limited. You guys have created this fiction which simply doesn't exist..
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:51
#8
30 Aug 2013, 16:51#8
Mozart Just one question - please - what has rucks to do with breakdown ball recovery? Why confuse the two issues completely/ The one happens around 8 times in any given game - the other up to ten times more. Which one has consequently the most impact on the outcome of the game?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2013, 16:55
#9
30 Aug 2013, 16:55#9
I'm not confusing them. Corn says the Bargies easily counter rucked the Boks....the stats don't bear that out. - You say Alberts and co were easily turned over. If you read the match stats the Boks were turned 17 times. Guess how many times our loosies turned over the ball......zero. Check it out for yourself and then stop talking nonsense.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2013, 17:06
#10
30 Aug 2013, 17:06#10
Mozart Please go on - you show some real deficiency in thinking in this regard. Equating rucks and breakdown ball recovery is really a joke in bad taste. No wonder you still cannot see where you are wrong. Still hammering on about rucks - but zero about breakdown ball recovery - really funny - it the consequences have not been and are not so seriously detrimental. Really show that some people are not capable of learning anything new - really tragic.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Aug 2013, 17:16
#11
30 Aug 2013, 17:16#11
What's tragic OOM is that you don't know that at the end of the 19th century we started the year 1900 not the year 2000. That's frigging tragic.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Aug 2013, 17:33
#12
30 Aug 2013, 17:33#12
I give up - a completely closed mind will never open.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
30 Aug 2013, 17:35
#13
30 Aug 2013, 17:35#13

Moz, its nice quoting stats in isolation, you need to at the phase play, how many phases did the boks string together, when did they conced the ball. It is easy to say we won most of our rucks, but we only made 5 meters. Bulls rugby is about bashing it around the fringes and that is what we are doing.

We other were to clumsy at our breakdown, knocking balls on, allowing the argies to get hands and slowing us down, we might have won it but we lost momentum. 

You also need to look at meters gained when said turnover was made. 

Just watch the bloody game mate.

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
30 Aug 2013, 18:19
#14
30 Aug 2013, 18:19#14

i agree with you mike....and the thing is this scottish coach does not have the skillset i believe to really learn our players the skills required.

 

louw does not have the build of a proper open sider......too big and weak centre of gravity. mitchells view on the breakdown is perfect as a NZ coach he understands the dark art that is the breakdown much better than any other nation. they have perfected the skils required to maximise the contact area and the breakdown area is basiclyy all about numbers and most importantanly the technique. lower smaller players generally are better going down and are a not so clumpsy like the passenger louw and "beeno" fourie that moontlights as a opensider for the WP

 

 

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
31 Aug 2013, 23:14
#15
31 Aug 2013, 23:14#15

 its simple guys your onr up runners mean oppo can defend in numbers. its basically impossible to generate momentum bevause you rely only on hitting it up. if you guys could offload or draw and pass you would make defence to have to fan out an cover option runners which makes those heavy carries more dsngerous! theres no one right way to play rugby but if you do any one thing all the time it becomrs easy.so just like hralthy diet... MODERATION! You should br making a base formation that you run several plays off, because it looks the same each time it causrs guessing game. you should br sble to hit it up throigh each channel depending on how oppo tesponds. do a few busts up 12 then switch it to 13 nrcy time cut back to blind wing. mix it up

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
31 Aug 2013, 23:18
#16
31 Aug 2013, 23:18#16

carpetman you exaggerate new zealand are crap at the nreakdown ref bias is only reasom they win most games. saffers are just too immobile up front. not passing purposefully is makimg defending easy. 

— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news