Saffex and CleverMike

You all told us that the Boks would never become a force with Morné at 10, you said the Boks need Lambie or Goosen to "get the backline moving". In spite of these bold statements the Boks have racked up forty-five tries in twelve tests! To put that into perspective, we scored twenty-one tries in 2009, that in twelve tests as well. You could say that in reality the Boks really had forty-seven as we had two legitimate tries disallowed against France. It truly boggles the mind that you cannot fathom any words of gratitude for either Meyer or Morné. We had Lambie's no-show after Morné left the field against Wales as unequivocal proof that the nonsense put forth against Morné is over-embellished drivel. Granted the success alone does not fall squarely on Morné's contributions, but he did play his role and played it well. With Lambie at 10 during last years EOYT the Boks scored four tries compared to this years eight (really ten). I entreat you, give the guy some credit and while you are at it give Meyer a hand. To compare him to Peter De Villiers is low.

We are still coming second to NZ and until we rid ourselves of Morne at 10, we will never challenge the AB's for the simple reason that we need our best 15 on the field to challenge the best and Morne is not close to being our best 10.

No amount of feet stamping will change the fact that Morne is a bog ordinary rugby player with a good boot.

He sells us short  

Sun-Tzu

You said that the Springboks scored 41 tries this year - very good.   The question is how many tries were scored by the forward and how many by backline players.   I think the count in fact was 21 backline player tries and 20 forward tries.

Since Morne never attacks the gain line  and do not give flat passes putting players into space - his roll in scoring of tries were minimal.   Matter of fact only two of the 41 tries were scored where he was involved in - one was against the All Blacks and one against Samoa.    In most other games he passed the ball in some cases - in others he was cut out of the moves completely. The issue with Morne is not only restricted to scoring of tries - where the key rolls were played by De Villiers and le Roux - but other facets of the game.  

He was bloody hopeless in defence and the aimless kicking - even missing 5 penalties  by not kicking the ball out of touch - cost the Springboks dearly.   By just looking at the games against the All Blacks - the All Blacks scored NINE tries against the Springboks.  FIVE of those were linked directly to flops made by Morne.

Of these 5 - he made the following mistakes:-

*   2 Tries resulted form him not kicking the ball out of touch after penalties - allowing the All Blacks to counter-attack and score tries - both at Eden Park

*   2 directly as a result of missed tackles (Ellis Park);

*   1 as a result of an error in judgement that Naas Botha called stupid - in  the Ellis Park test.   

There was another try of the All Blacks where Morne could with little effort on his part  at least tried to make a tackle - he did not and  the  AB's scored a try.   However, I did not attribute that try to deficiency in play  by Morne - because the above clearly spell out how bad a roll he in fact played in the two tests.  

There is no way we would not stagnate with Morne at flyhalf and the only way  Springbok rugby can progress is i f he is send packing.

Arizona

I do not care who Morne plays for - he sabotaged the Bulls as well in the Super 15 semi-final by an aimless kick - resulting in a counter -attack and the Brumbies match winning try.  What baffles me completely is why is he in the Springbok team at all?   That is the million dollar question.  

Ceradyne

Balls - I did not say each of the tries scored against us were the result of flops by Morne - I said he made a negative contribution resulting in five tries being scored by the All Blacks.    And I gave exact indications where Morne let the team down snd what the results of the deficiencies showed by him were.  

If you can prove me wrong about any of the examples I quoted I would dearly accept it - but you cannot so you carry on with rubbish statements on issues - making out as if the Steyn missed tackles, his failure to kick penalties out of touch and his bigger-up that bugger up at Ellis Park seconds before half time did not exist.

However, it is weird how you manage to constantly dish up trip on this site and find stooges to support you in that.

Don't try and mix this issue up with the one on Sloth Alberts - he has his own deficiencies - even tough you are too stupid to understand the role of loosies in the game of rugby. 

Sorry - duplication

Sun Tzu

Dream on - my brother - but remember dreams are not reality and what you see in Morne is dreams - not reality.  

 There is one thing that Morne does and that is he excuse the game plan.   If Meyer tells Morne to stand flatter and pass more - he does it.   However, there is one major problem  because he is robotic - he does not realise when it is necessary rather to kick than to pass. 

With all this Morne - Lambie comparisons there is one thing not clear.   In the RC would Lambie have made as many bugger-ups than Morne in fact made.   The Morne flops at kicking out of hand - missed tackles - and brain dead play,  that cost the Springboks 5 tries in the RC  was not very good - now was it?  Would Lambie have made the same number of bugger-ups?   I doubt it very much.       

 So Dave, would you say that Carter is the only oke standing in the way of Lambie being number 1 flyhalf based on a Currie Cup game??

You seem to think that Cooper is a great now after a good showing against the Welsh.

Hell, how did the Grey high flyhalf go? Did he have a good game? Could he be better than Carter? Your'e a knob brosef!

boklogic

Nobody argues about any SA player being the no 1 flyhalf in world rugby.   The argument centers around finding a decent flyhalf to be in the Springbok team.  You cannot claim that Morne played a positive part in the games between the AB's and the Springboks this year - he did nothing of the sort.

I claimed that through poor play he contributed to 5 of the 9 tries scored by the AB's this year against SA.   Nobody can argue against the facts listed - they just ignore it and carry on as if Morne was the best player to play as a flyhalf because his kicking at goal is so good.   

If we keep Morne as our flyhalf there are two things that SA will never achieve  and those are winning the RC and winning the WC.        

Mozart

With  respect - just one question.   Bearing in mind the record of Morne Steyn in tests against the AB's and in the Super 15 semi final this year - was Morne Steyn "bog ordinary" or deficient?   

No amount of feet stamping will change the fact that Morne is a bog ordinary rugby player with a good boot.

He sells us short"

Morne Steyn has an 80% win record against the All Blacks with a decent scrumhalf on his inside.

Ruan Pienaar has a zero percent win record against the All Blacks at nine, with any flyhalf on his outside.

So, let's blame Morne....

The Truth

I am at a loss.   How did you get to Morne's 80% win record against the AB's.   He came on the scene in 2009.   Since then we have played the All blacks 10 times - in which Morne was at flyhalf 9 times.   We won in total 2 games against the All Blacks since Morne came on Board.   How does that represent an 80% win record against the AB's?  

I just want to give you a real breakdown of Morne Steyn as given by an independent source - in this case the ESSPNscrum site:-

"His fly-half rival Ruan Pienaar was handed the Springboks' No.10 shirt for their 2009 Tri-Nations opener but Steyn still made a telling contribution in the win over the All Blacks. As a result he started the second Test and scored all his side's points in a 31-19 victory - a record against their old rivals. He followed up that display with another 24-point haul in their win against Australia in Cape Town.

Steyn struggled with his form in the 2011 Super Rugby campaign but kept his place in the Springboks side for the end of season Tri-Nations tournament. However - after a poor performance against the Wallabies, Steyn was told he was playing for his South Africa future in the Boks' second game of the tournament against New Zealand.

And that has been the story of Steyn's international career. He oscillates between Man of the Match performances and then costing his side valuable points with erratic kicking a week later. During 2010 he was the Boks' undisputed first choice No.10 and he kept that mantle during the 2011 World Cup but when Heineke Meyer took charge of the Boks then eventually he opted for Johan Goosen at No.10 towards the end of 2012."

Morne is still oscillating - but he never gets MOM anymore.   His game at Eden Park was a nightmare - as was his game at  Ellis Park against the AB's.   In 2012 Meyer was forced to drop him from the team because he was a serial flop at flyhalf.   Is he any better now?   

Sorry - dup lication

The Truth

I read your comments about playing next to a decent scrumhalf being the reason for Morne's good record and had a laugh about it.  Back to the situation where every other player is blamed for Morne's disastrous performances.   He was extremely bad playing next to Du Preez at Ellis Park in his latest test against the AB's - how do you explain that one? 

Then there is the summary of ESPN Scrum - not the type of thing to write about a top player.   Morne is not a top class performer at flyhalf - never was - never will be.   He is in fact a mediocre flyhalf who has specialized at kicking at goal - where he is normally about 80% successful.  

 There is one thing that Morne does and that is he excuse the game plan.   If Meyer tells Morne to stand flatter and pass more - he does it.

The Truth

I read your comments about playing next to a decent scrumhalf being the reason for Morne's good record and had a laugh about it.  Back to the situation where every other player is blamed for Morne's disastrous performances. 

Ha ha ha so Morne has an 80% win record against the AB's when he has a decent 9.......wow that goes back some........its a shame our 9's have been so poor.......what a load of shit.

Pienaar might not be at his best these days, but one certainty is that he is a far better rugby player than Morne has ever been.

Same applies to any 9 that has played with Morne

The issue is with Morne as he is not gifted enough to play test rugby.

Had he never had a boot on him, he would not have smelt a single CC game  

1. Dan Carter
2. Johnny Wilkonson
3. Carlos Spencer
4. Stephen Larkam 
5. Grant Fox
6. Andrew Mehrtens
7. Ronan O'Gara
8. Jonathan Davies
9. Neil Jenkins
10. Michael Lynagh
11. Stephen Jones
12. Hugo Porta
13. Butch James
14. Joel Stransky
15. Morne Steyn
16. Jannie de Beer
17. Felippe Contepomi
18. Gregor Townsend
19. Quade Cooper
20. Gonzola Quesada
21. John Rutherford
22. Craig Chambers
23. Rob Andrew
24. Freddie Michalak
25. Didier Canberabero

Ceradyne

When was the above posted - 5 years ago? 

Read the following with care:-

"Steyn struggled with his form in the 2011 Super Rugby campaign but kept his place in the Springboks side for the end of season Tri-Nations tournament. However - after a poor performance against the Wallabies, Steyn was told he was playing for his South Africa future in the Boks' second game of the tournament against New Zealand.

And that has been the story of Steyn's international career. He oscillates between Man of the Match performances and then costing his side valuable points with erratic kicking a week later. During 2010 he was the Boks' undisputed first choice No.10 and he kept that mantle during the 2011 World Cup but when Heineke Meyer took charge of the Boks then eventually he opted for Johan Goosen at No.10 towards the end of 2012."

That assessment tells you what Morne produces.   Probably the oscillation has stopped recently - he does not go up and down - he nowa days stays down.

Mozart

I asked a nice question about Morne Steyn higher up - but no response.

There are two aspects of Lambie's play that is vastly better than Steyn and those are -

*  unlike Steyn's backslapping tackle attempts - Lambie's tackling technique is sound and he is defensively better than Steyn; and

*  he reads games better and would know when to kick and when to pass balls - something seriously amiss in Morne.

Just go and watch the Ellis Park test and you will see where Morrne became unstuck - and that is not the first test where it happened.

"Morne Steyn has an 80% win record against the All Blacks with a decent scrumhalf on his inside"

Lol.  This is a standard propaganda trick called lying with qualifiers.  It's like saying a McDonalds happy meal has less calories than a small salad (provided you don't drink the fizzy or eat the burger and fries.  Or, we could say that Morne has a 100% winning ration against the All Blacks (in PE).  It's the devil in the detail that Toofless wants us to ignore.  

This is also a gem.  

" Oh, you mean the one match where the Boks were chasing the four tries instead of securing the win."

I suggest you watch the game again.  The limp cocks only tried to "chase" 4 tries AFTER Habana scored his quick brace.  Up until then, they had played their standard ultra conservative, borefest game and preferred to convert their penalty opportunies in the AB half rather than kick the ball deep into NZ territory and try for a rolling maul.  After Habs tries  I dont recall them EVER trying to convert a penalty again.  So Einstein, what changed?  Why the sudden change of tactics.  The TRUTH is, they NEVER intended to chase 4 tries from the outset.  They were playing to win the game, not the tournament ( afterall, isn't Ellis some kind of fortress or something?). Only after Habs tries did the dynamic change along with their tactics.  

Nukefreekiwi, keeping it real for the deluded saffshits.