SAfrica demands 6 teams in Super Rugby from 2016

12:03 AM Wednesday Oct 30, 2013

CAPE TOWN, South Africa (AP) South Africa must have six clubs in Super Rugby from 2016 or it will "look north," South African Rugby Union President Oregan Hoskins says, a clear threat the country will approach European competition if the southern hemisphere can't accommodate its terms.

"If we don't have six teams, we might as well shut doors," Hoskins was quoted as saying by the South African Press Association and the Pretoria News in probably the strongest comments yet that SARU is willing to break up the 17-year-old southern hemisphere agreement that has been in place since rugby became openly professional.

South Africa was forced to relegate one of its teams in favor of another in 2012 after SANZAR, which sanctions international rugby in South Africa, New Zealand and Australia, refused to expand the three-nation, 15-team Super Rugby competition. All three countries have five clubs in Super Rugby.

That opened up SARU to fierce criticism at home when it dropped the Johannesburg-based Lions at the last minute after promising the new Port Elizabeth-based Southern Kings a Super Rugby place for 2013 without any guarantee of an expansion from SANZAR. The Kings lost a promotion-relegation playoff with the Lions at the end of this season, with the teams changing places again for next year.

Hoskins said South Africa won't accept anything less than six teams when a new deal and a restructured format is expected after the 2015 season.

"As far as I am concerned, it is not even an issue for us, it is six or nothing when the new broadcast deal comes into effect," Hoskins told SAPA and the Pretoria newspaper on Monday. The comments were carried by the Pretoria News on Tuesday.

"People didn't believe us when we said how serious it was until we had to forsake one of our provinces out of the Super Rugby," the SARU president said. "We have to do everything it takes to ensure our teams play in whatever competition. If it is not SANZAR then we have to look north."

South Africa hinted at breaking away from New Zealand and Australia in 2009, when negotiations began on the current five-year TV rights deal starting in 2011. For the new 15th club, an arbitrator was needed to choose the Melbourne Rebels to satisfy Australian TV rights over a stronger bid from the Southern Kings.

Hoskins' threat could carry more impact this time with developments in the northern hemisphere, where English and French clubs are leading efforts to leave the European Heineken Cup competition and form another tournament. Welsh clubs last week backed the move.

Hoskins also said South Africa brought more money to Super Rugby than its southern hemisphere partners, therefore enforcing its worth.

"South Africa is the partner and the brand which is the biggest in the southern hemisphere in terms of commercial value, brand value, bums on seats, television viewership, the number of players we have, et cetera," Hoskins said. "So I am hoping that we are being accommodated within SANZAR. We are being told that we are being accommodated."

SANZAR hasn't indicated how it might incorporate a sixth team from South Africa with the tournament currently separated into three national conferences of five teams, but Hoskins said he favored going to 18 clubs, with six each from South Africa and New Zealand, five still from Australia and the inclusion of a team from Argentina, which joined SANZAR's Rugby Championship last year.

 So let me get this straight ....South Africa are so desperate to have another team thaey are throwing their toys around and are threatening to go and play in the Northern Hemisphere competition in the middle of their own summer ...too funny

Thats a long season is'nt it but good luck to them . It was nice knowing you fullas...

Can't see why we should except another useless South African franchise though when they're already wooden spooners .... Why would we want another kak team in the comp??

 Lets face facts.  SARU is desperate to get two wooden spoon teams in the competition.   After all two is better than one in the fat pig feeding trough, which is SARU - matter of fact 90% of the Government set up in SA.

Ceradyne

I know you are thick as a brick - but please don't show your ignorance that badly.   Port Elizabeth is in the EASTERN CAPE - not in the SOUTHERN CAPE.   From a rugby perspective the Southern Cape is an area of moderate towns - from Swellendam in the west to Knysna in the east and stretching inland to Beaufort West in the north, represented by the South Western Districts  Eagles.  The  area represents one of the cradles of SA rugby insofar as school rugby development is concerned - but in view of the relatively small economic base - they do not retain their most talented school boy crops after their school years.   The area basically have a closer relationship with Cape Town than Port Elizabeth - the emphasis being on the WESTERN - with he major population centres nearer to Cape Town, with a stronger economic base and consequently a bigger drawcard  in Cape Town.

The Eastern Cape has their own economic problems and comprise in the main of Port Elizabeth and East London, with Grahamstown thrown in.   The Government is pumping millions into the area - since it is per head of the population one of the poorest areas in SA.   They insist on sport development being happening - but not very successfully.   Virtually all cricket and rugby players of note - coming from the said  area did not attend the hopeless Government schools in the area - but came through the so-called sports schools.   

In view of the above and the limitations the local economic institutions have a limiting affect on sport sponsorships, the Eastern Province franchise find it very hard to draw more prominent players and retain them - they just do not have enough funds - and when they get funds from the Government - last year it was R40 000 000 - it vanished into thin air.     

In an effort to enhance their image and claim  - they are claiming that the SWD Eagles is part of their Super 15 franchise - much like Griquas  is part of the Cheetahs set up in their case.  It has not worked this year - so what else can make sure it will work in future.

Problem is economics and the ridiculous education system in the Eastern Cape is not producing top players and sportsmen.   The SWD area falls under the Western Cape Government - with a much more enhanced level of service delivery - also in education and school sport development - than any other province in SA.   

Education and economics remains the issue - and the area they want as a franchise suffers hardships in both those two fields - so really gerrymandering will not help.

 And dear idiot - SA will now have to move its main holiday season for rugby to June July - so they can compete in the NH winter season with NH teams - what an utter load of BS - aside from the damage it will do to SA rugby to compete on a lower level than Super 15 in competitions and all other negatives such a move will entail.    

Thanks Blobbok!

Still not sure why you call yourself by this nick name but you must have your reasons, lol

Ceradyne 

There is very little coming from the industries in the Eastern Cape as to sport sponsorships - as they are all struggling to make ends meet.  The major vehicle sellers in SA is not those produced in the EC - they are mostly Japanese and even Korean models produced elsewhere.  And the Free State is economically much more viable than the Eastern Cape - with the mining and agricultural industries much stronger than in the EC - and it shows in all spheres of life.

The Heineken Cup is mostly played starting in October and if SA is to be included the competition will perforce have to run through to February - with games in January as well.   It could mean a serious impact on the normal SA rest period in rugby of December through to middle February.   So when must they have a rest period then - somewhere between June and August?   Come now be logical - that would be the implication. 

 Okay so hypothetically South Africa gets into the NH competition, no skin off my nose and we're calling your bluff anyway but like it's summer in the SH around then - so can someone tell me what's the temperature in South africa mid summer when the rugby will be being played??

...or is South Africa prepared to play all their games away in the NH....

Yup, SA should explore all their options. We will wait patiently for you to come back to us and say "can we play with you boys again?"

 Ceradyne

In the seven WC tournaments held since 1987, the NH countries won it ONCE whiklst New Zealand, South Africa and Australia won it  twice each.  That should tell you about the standard of rugby in the world.   The real strength has over the last 30 years always been in the SH - not in the NH. 

In the NH the role of rugby as a sport is denuded by the import of too many players from the SH - thy keep promising younger players out of top competition and can only add to the lack of future development of NH rugby.   

Southern rugby will not suffer...most WC finals prove that...there appears to be a dose of arrogance in both N and S hemispheres.

What I personally believe that rugby needs to open it's doors to other countries to expand and develope the game expansively and sacrifices should be made to share. Business and greed must bow at some stage to altruistic needs of other nations that want to play.

 South  Africa is doing a lot for rugby development in Africa and South America - especially Argentina.   However, one cannot see even a trace of help emanating from any NH and other SH countries to enhance rugby as a world sport.   That remains a problem - as I stated earlier the NH countries even reduce internal player development by importing too many foreign players - mainly from  SH countries - stopping or diminishing internal development programmes.  

In the last Under 20 WC the finals was between Wales and England - the question remains - what will happen to these youngsters in future - will they get recognition by English clubs or just be superseded by  imports? 

What union does not need is countries that overindulge each other becoming so isolated and insular that it becomes like Aussie rules in Oz and Grid iron in the USA. No real global competition...rather like human relations and development in the Appalachian Mountains...lolz. An inter-bred sport.

Ceradyne

You have posted the club info previously on this site.   That is not really the topic here.   The topic relates to the 12 top clubs in Engalnd and 14 in France  from which virtually all of their internationals are drawn and which is diluted by foreign players - reducing the ability of younger player to reach their objectives - that is one point.   The same happened in France and Ireland as well.

The other interesting point raised - is the question of enhancement of rugby as a world sport - where all the NH unions do squat about.  On that you are totally silent.   

Ceradyne

You have posted the club info previously on this site.   That is not really the topic here.   The topic relates to the 12 top clubs in Engalnd and 14 in France  from which virtually all of their internationals are drawn and which is diluted by foreign players - reducing the ability of younger player to reach their objectives - that is one point.   The same happened in France and Ireland as well.

The other interesting point raised - is the question of enhancement of rugby as a world sport - where all the NH unions do squat about.  On that you are totally silent.   

 ...another not so clever post from not so clever mike...

'South  Africa is doing a lot for rugby development in Africa and South America - especially Argentina.   However, one cannot see even a trace of help emanating from any NH and other SH countries to enhance rugby as a world sport....'

....not so clever mike....NZ coaches are coaching 6 out of 10 of the top rugby sporting nations not to mention many of the minnows..You mention Argentina where Graham Henry has been coaching and SA where there is also Kiwi coaches...

...other input from kiwis included helping out 10 of the teams in the most recent RWC by supplementing their teams with NZ players...

...youll find in our own backyard many a Pacific Islander wants to play like the next Jonah Lomu, SBW, Luatua, Piutau, Savea etc so no shortage in inspiration there.

...How many kiwis playing for Australia or in Australian clubs so we're propping the sport up there..NZ coaches are in hot demandand reliable not like yr flakey Jakes...

So not quite sure what yr on about not so clever mike ??? Please enlighten us as to what South Africa is doing for rugby development that NZ is not....