It seems Meyer is actively considering Jean for 13....and the Sharks have lost elevation on JP at 13. Common sense all round.
I think a Steyn/Jean combination will be the strongest we have had in years, and serve us very well in this year's internationals.
Have to agree Moz this is the best we can field right now and Jean needs to be at 13 where he always belonged really.
Nice to hear the coach confirming he has not lost speed. Being a big lad he does not look as fast as he really is and that fools the unobservant.
Nope Jean is too slow for 13 and his best days are over - time to move on
Dave please show some respect for our new captain - the illustrious Jean de Villiers - who the coach says has not lost speed. You do realise they have time tests for the guys.
Do remember Dave, Jean started as a wing for the Boks. Seems like you are way out re Jean.
I can't decide where I am on this one. On the one hand, Jean is probably the only real option for captain at the moment, because of injuries to the other possible captains and because of his experience. But on the other hand, he is but a shadow of the player he ways two or three years ago, so I don't know if he is good enough to warrant a spot in the team. Just because he hasn't lost pace doesn't necessarily make him a good player. He seems to lack that extra spark he had a while back. The problem is, who do we replace him with? We are a little light on quality, EXPERIENCED centres. Steyn is the answer at 12, but 13 is a problem.
Gotto say, I am on the fence here.
Bluebok this shadow was after Frans Steyn our best back at the world cup. He has lost nothing and is a must to play.
Beenkop, respect has stuff all to do with it. Jean was never a 13, so why should he now be one at the age of 30 - its madness and would be a pretty poor selection. There is no way Jean is fast enough for 13. If you want to play Jean and Frans, keep Jean at 12 and play the younger faster Steyn at 13
Frank Bunce didn't debut for the AB's until he was in his 30's and went on to be one of the best centres in world rugby.
Jean is metres faster than Fury , the player he will thankfully be replacing. Fury has never been able to keep up with Jean on the break....as we saw last in the RWC QF. I can't speak directly to Fransie, but he certainly doesn't look fast to me....powerful yes....but not fast.
Lastly Jean was a very effective wing in his day....he was fast enough to play wing in the TN. If that's true, and he hasn't lost speed, he is fast enough to play outside centre.
Frankie Frederichs won the Commonwealth 200 metres in his 30s.
Exactly so Moz, I would not be at all surprised if Jean was quicker then fFrans. Frans is a natural 12 and Jean a natural 13. All is as it should be.
Frans at 12 is like another flyhalf in the nz style of things.
See the big picture Dave!
No way in hell is Jean faster than Fourie.......as for Bunce, the bloke was massively overated, modern day centres are far better. Bunce was a hard nut, with very little skill to get one too excited. Hardly the kind of centre who ripped defences to shreds. I hear Bunce reckons Robbie F is not ready for test rugby yet - go figure!!
If Jean is fit come the English then yes the move to play him at 13 would be brilliant.
Firstly I agree jean as a far more natural 13 than a 12, he started out playing there and played all his schools rugby and the begginning of his professional career at 13. Allister will need to play along though and Give jean some gametime here for the stormers.
Secondly the combination of Frans Steyn and Jean as stated by numnrious people above would be a prefect fit.
Thirdly: The Boks have lost Jaque Fourie and Fourie du Preez, These guys where the organisational brains in the backline. Without them the only organiser left is Jean. Even if he lacks a bit in pace (not convinced though) and doesn't spread the ball so much anymore (True, but he will not be playing 12) he has a far better organisational ability than any other south African backline player. Without him in the Bok backline we wil lack some organisational skills and leadership there. This is and will be tha main thing he brings to the party. Without him there we will have problems as I don't see either Hougaard, Morne, Frans have the skills to do this. Maybe Habana however he plays the wrong position you can't have him do it from the wing. This is the job of an inside back. Prefereble a Centre or Flyhalf. And Jean with all his faults currently is the best at that.
On his possibly captaining the side, he definitely has the potential, however he has never worked with Heynecke seems to be the best candidate left standing.
If we play an old guy like Jean at 13 for the Boks, we have no hope in hell in progressing from the crap PDV dished up...........I can see it now, a side filled with a bunch of hasbeens like Habana, Jean, Morne, du Preez, Jannie, Schalk, Bakkies and Matfield - the joke will be on us
Dave I saw a hooker...Schalk Britz .....catch Fury from behind. I have never seen anybody even close on Jean, let alone catch him from behind. That includes all those 80 metre interception runs.
Moz, neither have ever been that fast and hardly surprising that Brits caught Fourie as he is as quick as a back.
Jean might have had good enough pace in his day, but his days are done - thats my point. We dont need a 30 year playing out of position at 13 - it would be stupid when we have younger quicker options in JP, JJ, Taute, Jordaan and Sadie - hell even wee de Jongh would be a better bet.
I am not questioning Jean's ability, I am just saying he is past it - certainly in the speed stakes, given he was never that quick in the first place.
If we play all these old guys, Meyer will learn the hard way for he will start his tenure as a loser
There is no way that we have a center better than De Villiers in SA - and that is a fact of life. The story about slowness is a figment of imaginatoion of somebody on this Board.
The problem with the backline is evident - we are OK at full back with Lamlie - and the rest could be as follows:-
14 Habana
13 Jean De Villiers
12 Steyn
11 Basson
10 Grant
9 Hougaard
Except for Jean and Habana - the rest of the proposed backline is very young and could go through to next WC. Goosen is in the background and so is Sadie and Engelbrecht - the latter two has huge potential for development.
I hope that by 2014 the following back line has matured to the level to be world beaters:-
15 Lambie
14 Engelbrecht
13 Sadie
12 Steyn
11 Basson
10 Goosen
9 Hougaard
There are also other players that should ultimately be on the bench for the Springboks and we can watch them with real interest in future.
Robbie F isn't ready for test rugby yet, the reason...he's a lousy read on defence...my old team mate who's currently playing for Bristol played with Robbie in Wellington, he still has they same issues...he's not far off mind you.
Only problem is that HM will probably ply Olivier at 12, with Frans coming off the bench. Hope not, but thats whats going around atm.
Methinks one should forget about what is going around. HM is not going to give in to popular demand like our friend Twakkies did. He has said, in every article that I have raid about the "JDV the new Bok capt" that what is saying should not be taken out of context and that he would only make his final decisions the week before the tests. Everything else is pure speculation and journos trying to be clever.
Mike I must say, I haven't seen anything dynamic in Sadie yet....but I'm open. And Basson has to man up more in the tackling stakes. For the rest I really like your 2014 backline.
Moz - I took Sadie as a developing player based on his pperformances last year - but I think the Bulls did not use him to best advantage. Maybe Sadie will develop further - but there are others as well that could come through. Jordaan or even some new Under 19's could also be in contention. Must say i like basson as an attacking wing decent coiaching will lead to improvement in defence.
DBDraad - we are talking here of Springbok selection - not a visit to the hair stylist - so pleasde save us from Olivier. He together with Morne are serious defensive risks.
"Frank Bunce didn't debut for the AB's until he was in his 30's and went on to be one of the best centres in world rugby."
Well said. I remember the look on the face of a young Percy Montgomery as Frank turned him inside out.....Bunce was an all-time great in my opinion.
