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FORUM / RUGBY /  Selection isn’t the problem….game plan is

Selection isn’t the problem….game plan is

Started by Mozart28 REPLIES796 VIEWS· 20 Aug 2022, 18:19
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Aug 2022, 18:19
#1
20 Aug 2022, 18:19#1

We have a team without a fetcher, without a forward running game, without an inside centre. How did we end up missing these three crucial cogs in the machine? Let’s take them one at a time:


1 The absence of a proper fetcher among the loosies as been disguised by playing crash ball rugby. If you offload, if you try the wider channels you move away from the pack and the Bok strategy has been to ruck over the ball on the deck. So you keep the ball close to the pack which means Marx and Bongi can play fetcher. They couldn’t if the breakdown was in 13 channel.


2 A forward running with clever offloads is simply not possible with Dud Toit as your ball carrier. His long shanks are an easy target, he never breaks a tackle and he never offloads. But by and large he hangs onto the ball. A few token charges at the opponent and we do what we always wanted to do….kick the up and under.



3 Do I even have to spell out why we live happily with Dud Allende at 12. He crashes it in, we ruck over it….rinse and repeat. Who needs a centre being turned in open field….remember the JJ disaster just before the half against the ABs in 2013?


Nope it’s a simple game, which means we have players who delight in a simple mission….charge up into the opponent and hang onto the ball. But we were a little lucky it worked at the WC and we are at best 50/50 against the top teams since then. The strategy is old, stale and well countered as we saw with the ABs when they stopped our maul.


We badly need a playmaker at 12, to allow Faf to play his Lions game, to find a forward who can add pace to our running game… our Savea. And to make that work we need a more mobile fetcher than  Marx. 


But you see, the moment you change the game plan selection comes into focus. And there are 3 players we need to find….the sooner, the better.



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Aug 2022, 18:39
#2
20 Aug 2022, 18:39#2

"And to make that work we need a more mobile fetcher than  Marx. "

Deon Fourie is too old...there's no one else ATM...SA tends to play two 7 flankers...the hooker and our 8 does the fetching.


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
20 Aug 2022, 19:26
#3
20 Aug 2022, 19:26#3

The 8th man has his own role to play. It's not that of a fetcher.

Kolisi's inability to do his job at 6 forces other players to take up the slack.

Marx & Wiese's primary role is not to get to the breakdown ahead of everyone else. 

It's not to go to ground and compete for turnover ball. 

They may position themselves over a tackled opponent and challenge for the ball, while waiting for the ref to blow his whistle.

That Draad ... is not fetching.

It is not per chance that the fetcher's role has been handed to the openside flank. 

There's a reason for that.

His position in the scrum set piece is perfectly suited to break loose from the set piece ahead of everyone else and to chase the ball to the next breakdown.

Top class fletchers have been known to run as much as 7 - 8km flatout in a single match. 

Their purpose is to go to ground ... wrestle the ball out of the opponent's hands ... make it available for the scrummie to distribute ... and then to get up off the deck ... and to do it all over again ... all match long.

The fetcher in my opinion is the most important player on the park.

Kolisi is too busy appearing in TV ads to bother committing himself to his role as a fetcher ... He knows he's a sure thing ... and besides that, I doubt he can run much more than a km before running out of puff.

Sooooo .... please don't dismiss the importance of a specialist fetcher. 

There's a lot more to it than merely positioning yourself over a tackled player and waiting for the ref to blow his whistle.



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 Aug 2022, 20:04
#4
20 Aug 2022, 20:04#4

"His position in the scrum set piece is perfectly suited to break loose from the set piece ahead of everyone else and to chase the ball to the next breakdown."

Only from. scrums... you are right, but strangely South African coaches don't buy into that philosophy...when last did we select a classic openside?...barring the reluctant selection of Brussouw...even Schalk in his prime wasn't a classic openside...we tend to buck the trend.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
20 Aug 2022, 20:19
#5
20 Aug 2022, 20:19#5

Burger may not have been a classic fetcher ... however ... his work rate made up for that big time. 

He was all over the place all match long. All he needed was to go to ground and he would have been the perfect fetcher.

Marcell Coetzee was selected by Meyer to play as a fetcher ... and he did relatively well, when he remembered his role. 

He was however a better blindside flank in my opinion. 

Shows you the quality of our coaches over the last decade. 

How any of them got appointed beats me. 



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2022, 11:32
#6
21 Aug 2022, 11:32#6
Roos is our Savea, Moz. Easily on par with him and perhaps better. We also have Kwagga who is as fast as most of our backs…i think only the wingers are quicker. I agree though. The Bok’s seem to be playing a type of game that is almost too attritional to sustain. It means they can get up for big matches but have to take their foot of the gas a little sometimes and always look beatable when they do. I’m not sure if that’s an enviable position to be in or not? Because it means that you have a good chance of winning when you really try but it costs a lot to buy into while also leaving you more vulnerable than you should be when you inevitably have to take a breather. I’m convinced one weekend and the very next there are problems everywhere. Perhaps it’s a case of reading too much into the outcome of the Kriel concussion plan b…and the crazy selections in the 2nd Welsh game. I do feel like i’m seeing chinks in the Bok armor/gameplan though.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Aug 2022, 11:42
#7
21 Aug 2022, 11:42#7

...almost as we are already pacing ourselves for the world cup...approaching every match as a part of a marathon that ends with the world cup instead of playing every match on its merit... aiming to win every last match with maximum points...

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Aug 2022, 12:14
#8
21 Aug 2022, 12:14#8
You see it too, Draad?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Aug 2022, 15:54
#9
21 Aug 2022, 15:54#9

Planning for the WC and ignoring the present has long been the plan and the excuse of Bok coaches.

MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
21 Aug 2022, 15:58
#10
21 Aug 2022, 15:58#10

You fucks don't know anything... a fetcher doesn't run around chasing everything you stupid assholes! They target specific rucks. Lets say that you know fhe opponent is going to have a starter play off a luneout involving player x... well, you will have your fetcher attack that fucking ruck. Or maybe you know they have an exhaust pattern going to the left until the touchline... so you know they are widening the field to reload on the opposite direction through their freed up backline... now you know you can fuck up their crash ball to the middle of the field. Fetchers aren't about distance travelled but rather economy of movement around the field. Good fetchers know how to conserve themselves and when to attack. Of course, stupid fucking yarpies think it means going AWOL for 1 billion miles in a single test, attacking every fucking ruck. But if your players are trained to attack exposed slow ball... do you need a fetcher? It's basically a numbers game and knowing when ball is vulnerable or not worth contesting. The Boks don't need a fetcher.... they need to be smarter about sussing out these opportunities! Fucking Mozart... who got his ass kicked about Ebenezer... now links a fetcher to crash balling... a fetcher is a defensive weapon you fuck nugget.... not an attacking weapon. That shit is about how the team organises its phase play and it's fuckong pods to clean attacking ball. You fucking yarpies should be paying me for these nuggets of wisdom! I could be writing articles for Bark to read and apply incorrectly on discussions! XD!! 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Aug 2022, 16:09
#11
21 Aug 2022, 16:09#11

Don’t get your tit in  a wringer Mrs Searle….fetchers have both defensive and offensive duties. Want me to explain?

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
21 Aug 2022, 16:21
#12
21 Aug 2022, 16:21#12

What a week you Poms have had in sport.

Clobbered on the cricket field by an innings inside 3 days at Lords, by who.

By that yarpie team from South Africa.

The Great Joshua comes short in his attempt to regain his World Crown.

Plus shows the Pom's sportsmanship by dumping two belts out of the ring after the decision.

Now you want to provide advice to the Springbok rugger boffins.

Sorry Pom..

Best to provide you sporting knowledge and advice to the locals I would suggest.

Grow up Pom, we are tired of seeing your moms wrinkled old udders.


MS
Mrs SearlePro1,533 posts
21 Aug 2022, 18:30
#13
21 Aug 2022, 18:30#13

4 out of 5 you ignorant dunce! I'll teach you retards how to play a sport you can't fucking play in. Weaopon #1... hope you are fatter than the opposition so you'll out heavy them at set piece time... fucking losers! 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
21 Aug 2022, 19:24
#14
21 Aug 2022, 19:24#14

"You see it too, Draad?"

There's something to be said for staying within the bracket of favorable averages, but it bothers me if we are going half motivated into test matches.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
22 Aug 2022, 07:07
#15
22 Aug 2022, 07:07#15
Did you watch the fight Arthur? What a weak, spoiled and immature knobhead AJ is. Throws all the belts out of the ring, has a long and cringeworthy speech and starts a scuffle. Totally disrespectful to the guy that just beat him and a disgrace to the sport. I’m glad he lost his belts.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Aug 2022, 07:54
#16
22 Aug 2022, 07:54#16
The heavyweight division is in a mess.
Iron Mike Tyson would have knocked both out in the first round.
It's time a new alpha steps up and dominates the division.
The standard of fighter we see currently is bad for the sport.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
22 Aug 2022, 08:30
#17
22 Aug 2022, 08:30#17
It’s no wonder that Fury doesn’t wanna fight anyone. He’s the only guy right now that could go back through the generations and challenge all the heavyweights of the past. The current crop, some unproven young guns aside, are all below par. You look at the other divisions and there are guys like Canelo, Crawford, Loma and even 3G…all talented, respectful and quality champions. I include Usyk in that too, but he’s a cruiserweight. Fury stands alone in the heavyweight division. haha AJ telling reporters after the loss “I’m a fighter you know.” haha no mate, you’re a twat.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Aug 2022, 10:20
#18
22 Aug 2022, 10:20#18

Those of us who follow boxing, have our favourites in most weight divisions.

The heavyweight division is usually the division we select our top 5 all time greats from.

Going all the way back to John L Sullivan, Jim Jefferies and Jack Johnson. 

Tyson Fury has been made to look better than he is by the shoddy competition. Personally, I don't think he would have stood the test of time against the likes of George Foreman or Jack Dempsey.

Give me your top 5 best heavyweights, Plum.


  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Aug 2022, 12:21
#19
22 Aug 2022, 12:21#19

Mozart

What game plans did White, De Villiers, Meyer and Coetzee  had to score tries and defend against attacks?    

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Aug 2022, 13:27
#20
22 Aug 2022, 13:27#20

Don't you mean Coetzee?


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Aug 2022, 14:34
#21
22 Aug 2022, 14:34#21

‘Soccer tries’ ?…I think ‘goals’ is the more usual term.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Aug 2022, 14:44
#22
22 Aug 2022, 14:44#22

I think he meant "score", Mozart.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:02
#23
22 Aug 2022, 15:02#23
What a load of crap We don’t need a fetcher at 6 when you have Marx, Kitshoff and Vermeulen doing all the fetching De Allende is the best 12 in the game used to take it up drawing in defenders and creating another phase - if you can’t see that you are rugby ignorant PSDT is the best blindside in the game who’s job is to carry in traffic and not to offload. He won world player of the year doing this job as he is so good at it. Again if you don’t get this you are rugby ignorant de Allende and PSDT are playing to a plan, if the plan included the offload you would see it employed Moz are you seriously this rugby naive? Do you think that after all this time with DA at 12 that if offloads were part of the plan we would have seen them by now. Here is a lesson for you. The plan it to take contact to draw defenders in, its not to offload taking the play further away from your support players thereby increasing the risk of opening up the player to being isolated and turned over Read this a few times and maybe then it will sink in. Our players are instructed to play this way - it’s exactly why we see Vermeulen selected and if not him then head down Wiese. It’s why the creative, attacking minded Roos is not being selected. Our coach does not want our 8, 12 or 7 running creative lines and offloading - it’s not the plan. Don’t blame the players blame the plan. You have just done the opposite as you don’t understand the picture
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:10
#24
22 Aug 2022, 15:10#24

Haaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!!

Ok, Stupid ... if you say so.



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:15
#25
22 Aug 2022, 15:15#25
Clown Cunt I hardly expect you to get it Dries Scholtz bwahhhaaaaaa I’d did not think Boshoff at 10 could be trumped but your profound rugby ignorance has just done that Richard Bands bwaahaaaaaaa Fuck me you are a tool
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:21
#26
22 Aug 2022, 15:21#26

Dve 

According to Mozart there are only two players in the Springbok team to criticize and his criticism is based on prejudice without any regard to reality.   He lied constantly about what happened in games insofar as the  two players are concerned.   Everytime he describe an incident involving the  two players he lied about the incident and that is a fact as well.   

Take for instance the case o the ball carry of  Du Toit he said De Allende stopped  to fellow up - while De Allende was deliberately bumped into by an AB player - for which he should have been penalized.   But Mozart pretended that the interference of the AB player  did not happen and consequently lied about the incident.   

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:37
#27
22 Aug 2022, 15:37#27
I always have a laugh at the fact that PSDT won world player of the year but according to Moz he is shit It’s laughable - imagine the panel actually choosing a shit player as the world player of the year
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:38
#28
22 Aug 2022, 15:38#28

What now???

I agreed with you, Stupid!!!

De Lindy is the best 12 in the game ... and so is PSDT. Uh Duh!!!

Why distribute the ball to our star at 13 when you can go to ground with it and keep the entire backline out of the match ... right?

We don't need a specialist openside flanker ... and fetching is the mere act of positioning yourself over a tackled player in front of you while waiting for the ref to blow his whistle.

I mean it's an absolute waste of time getting to the breakdown 50m away to compete for the ball, right?

Besides ... I'm sure Marx who's still tied up in the scrum will have ample time to get their and position himself over the tackled player.

Duane Vermeulen is only 36 years old. The geezer is fit enough and just as quick as he was 10 years ago to get to the breakdown 50m away, right?.

I really must stop worrying about these issues.

Thank you for clearing it up for me, Stupid.

Forgive me ... I'm such a dumbass at times. 

I mean who needs a fresh approach, right?

Rassie's got this.



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:44
#29
22 Aug 2022, 15:44#29
Clean Cunt talk us through Dries Scholtz one more time
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